Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Atheling on July 20, 2020, 03:14:18 PM
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"And now for something completely different...well almost.
As it’s the 150th anniversary, Michael has started work on a new range of figures, Franco Prussian War
1870-71. The figures shown here are '3 ups' wips for plastic Prussian
and French infantry. We did make figures for this war many years ago
when we started up Wargames Foundry but hopefully the style of the new
ones will be better and they will be a little taller. The idea is to
produce two boxes for each army utilizing the same frames in each box
but with different proportions as we did for the ACW. So one of each
Prussian boxes will be all advancing at trail/marching plus a frame or
two of skirmishers firing/loading etc. The other box will be a box of
firing line/skirmishers with a few moving up in support. The same is
planned for the French. As yet there is no release date as it's still
early on in their production. Most of the figures shown here will need a
little more work done on them. Rifles were made by the talented Rob
Mcfarlane."
There's no mention of a complement of metal mini's to go with them but I would imagine that this would almost certainly be the case(?)
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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I've been waiting for this for ages.
An unexpected miracle... It will be hard to wait now...
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I've been waiting for this for ages.
An unexpected miracle... It will be hard to wait now...
Possibly a few packs in metal to whet the appetite first? Who knows :)
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Interesting and exciting.
I have been holding on to about 400 Foundry figures almost forever.
Maybe these new figures will get me to paint them. lol
Or maybe not. ;)
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The Prussians in particular look splendid :-*
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I’m in :D
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Are they considering doing the other German states? Also French Imperial Guard, if so I've found my new project.
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I've often wondered why this conflict didn't get more love from war gamers; looks like that is about to change. :)
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Very interesting indeed, one of those "must do" projects that i have avoided so far but that may now end. They look very decent, look forward to seeing where this one goes.
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There's no mention of a complement of metal mini's to go with them but I would imagine that this would almost certainly be the case(?)
On their Facebook page they stated that there will be Bavarians in metal.
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...hopefully the style of the new ones will be better and they will be a little taller.
I'm not understanding this.
Usually a "non competitive" agreement is reached between the 2 different parties (Perry's and Wargames Foundry), but that normally isn't for a lifetime. Ten years maybe.
Of course, what it could also mean that they are dipping their toes in the water to see how they sell and if all goes well they will do a complete line.
As for the minis, I like both the French and the Huns. I'd be a little leery about the bayonets in plastic though, as they are very long. Don't know if that is a problem, because I don't buy plastic minis.
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The Prussians in particular look splendid :-*
They do! ;D :D
I’m in :D
Me too! :D :D
On their Facebook page they stated that there will be Bavarians in metal.
That;s interesting.... gonna pop over and take a look. If they go for a full range then imagine that there will be a lot of stuff to add in metals.
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The Perry’s have earned their place in the Wargames Heaven! This will finally kickstart the whole 1864-1871 period :-* :-* :-*
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Means I could use the Prussians for a Battle of Dorking game fighting their British Zulu War figures in home service helmets ;D
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They have peaked my interest with this news, the french will be most welcome for some what if games
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I've often wondered why this conflict didn't get more love from war gamers; looks like that is about to change. :)
I thought Ebob had a range? (Wonder if they would work together with Perry?)
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Probably they ll also produce to complement the line infantry some metal small sets of less basical units ..as ex for the French: Gardes Mobiles, Francs Tireurs, officers, hussars or chasseurs à cheval in campaign dress ecc..they already have the dolls or even some almost complete subjects thanks to the Argentine/Paraguayans (boring) range they produced..in some cases the cut of the uniform is identical to FPW one.
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I thought Ebob had a range? (Wonder if they would work together with Perry?)
I'm making a wild guess that eBob might be closer in size to the Perry's then most other ranges. It is a huge guess as I have never seen the eBob FPW miniatures in the flesh.
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Means I could use the Prussians for a Battle of Dorking game fighting their British Zulu War figures in home service helmets ;D
And why not ??? :D
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This will finally kickstart the whole 1864-1871 period :-* :-* :-*
I hope so! I can't believe they're actually doing a FPW range, this feels like a dream come true.
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I hope so! I can't believe they're actually doing a FPW range, this feels like a dream come true.
Talking of which, I did notice that Northstar's 1866 range has disappeared. Is it being remoulded or has it been sold on?
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Nic's just temporarily taken the Northstar range off sale whilst he has reduced staff and is catching up on orders.
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Nic's just temporarily taken the Northstar range off sale whilst he has reduced staff and is catching up on orders.
Right, that's good to know.
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Prone and kneeling models. Those are a must.
And Tirailleurs Algeriens! And Turcos! And Republican troops! And Communards!!! And franc-tireurs!
The lists is almost endless... :-* :-*
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Prone and kneeling models. Those are a must.
Yeah, I think that it's possible that they will do them:
"The idea is to
produce two boxes for each army utilizing the same frames in each box
but with different proportions as we did for the ACW. So one of each
Prussian boxes will be all advancing at trail/marching plus a frame or
two of skirmishers firing/loading etc."
Have you seen the superb 'kneeling' Afghan body in these three ups?
(https://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/schrijfsels/wp-content/uploads/82585730_2480427732079318_568516411425554432_o.jpg)
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Of course, what it could also mean that they are dipping their toes in the water to see how they sell and if all goes well they will do a complete line.
Given the investment required for two boxes of plastic figures for each side, this is way more than mere "dipping toes in water". Besides, it's Perry - if they made 28mm dog turds, they'd be so damned good we'd rush out and buy them!
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Given the investment required for two boxes of plastic figures for each side, this is way more than mere "dipping toes in water". Besides, it's Perry - if they made 28mm dog turds, they'd be so damned good we'd rush out and buy them!
lol You're not wrong matey lol
I'm sure we'd find a good use for them too! :D
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I think I just bust a nut seeing these greens, hot damn.
Just need to really do more research into the era so I can run a decent Sharpe Practice game or two.
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I think I just bust a nut seeing these greens, hot damn.
Well put lol
Just need to really do more research into the era so I can run a decent Sharpe Practice game or two.
Yeah, I'm the same.... it's a conflict that has always held an interest for me but if you were to ask me what the difference in appearance between a Bavarian and a Prussian soldier I would be left blank. ::)
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Well, I wonder if I will finally get to do that long cherished Prisoner of Zenda project - in plastic!
I see some mid C19th German states kitbashing in my future... ;)
I’m already working out which parts from the British colonial sets I can use to hybridise those Prussians >:D
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Just saw these on Wargames News & Terrain, looks like I can rekindle a long-languishing project.
Puts me in a quandary though; plenty of scope for smaller scale/skirmish gaming:
And Tirailleurs Algeriens! And Turcos! And Republican troops! And Communards!!! And franc-tireurs!
But...
Well, I wonder if I will finally get to do that long cherished Prisoner of Zenda project
Choices, choices...which means, lets face it, probably both.
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Possibly a few packs in metal to whet the appetite first? Who knows :)
While the Perrys no doubt will be eventually producing quite a range of metals to accompany these plastics, don't expect to see them released as "appetizers". Don't even expect to see WIP pictures of the metal greens before the plastic sets are out.
Looking at the precedent (e.g. ACW, WotR, WWII British/Germans/Americans), whenever the Perrys have announced a new range by showing three-ups for plastics, then those plastics have really been the first release in the range. And while they have been typically well followed by metals (plenty of time to sculpt those while Renedra tools the plastic moulds), those are not usually shown until the plastic set has been released.
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While the Perrys no doubt will be eventually producing quite a range of metals to accompany these plastics, don't expect to see them released as "appetizers". Don't even expect to see WIP pictures of the metal greens before the plastic sets are out.
Looking at the precedent (e.g. ACW, WotR, WWII British/Germans/Americans), whenever the Perrys have announced a new range by showing three-ups for plastics, then those plastics have really been the first release in the range. And while they have been typically well followed by metals (plenty of time to sculpt those while Renedra tools the plastic moulds), those are not usually shown until the plastic set has been released.
That has not always been the case with the Perry's (For example the Agincourt to Orleans range) but it certainly seems to be the case nowadays. I suppose it makes more sense from a business point of view.
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While the Perrys no doubt will be eventually producing quite a range of metals to accompany these plastics, don't expect to see them released as "appetizers". Don't even expect to see WIP pictures of the metal greens before the plastic sets are out.
Looking at the precedent (e.g. ACW, WotR, WWII British/Germans/Americans), whenever the Perrys have announced a new range by showing three-ups for plastics, then those plastics have really been the first release in the range. And while they have been typically well followed by metals (plenty of time to sculpt those while Renedra tools the plastic moulds), those are not usually shown until the plastic set has been released.
I very much agree.
Given that the Afghan tribesmen are slated for an August release (assuming there are no CoVID-related delays) with the Napoleonic Austrian hussars to follow late this year or in early 2021, the release of the 1870 plastic sets is probably still nine to eleven months away. And it is very unlikely indeed that the metal packs (of which there should be a sizable number if Michael Perry intends to cover the war in proper detail) will appear before the plastics.
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That has not always been the case with the Perry's (For example the Agincourt to Orleans range) but it certainly seems to be the case nowadays. I suppose it makes more sense from a business point of view.
If we go back to the very first Perry plastics, the ACW figures released in early 2009, the basic operational mode can be observed already back then: an entirely new range (ACW) is announced, with a box of plastic infantry as the first release (in this case exceptionally almost immediately followed by a box of plastic cavalry), followed by a line of metal packs and eventually additional plastic boxes over years. Since then, they have done the same with WotR, WWII ranges and some of the Napoleonic ranges - and likely with this new range too.
Agincourt to Orleans (as well as AWI) plastics demonstrate the other Perry approach to plastics, where they release new plastic set to complement a long established metal range. In case of the Agincourt to Orleans range, the oldest metal packs may predate the plastics in the range by close to ten years, so were not exactly intended as appetizers for the plastics.
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yes but FPW is different..in UK wargame word very few care about it...at least 3 British manufactures plus a German one had made minis for this period ..with no particular success for i what i can imagine from blogs and subsequent scarse new subjects....i imagine that FPW is a work of love from Perry brothers because they like the subject but we cannot expect (unfortunatly for me) big ranges like ACW or Medieval....FPW is a very French topic, gamed and loved by few people even in France, having access to French sources, speaking French and loving French culture from inside...anyway let's see and hope that i'm totally wrong..in any case a pair of boxes in plastic from each opponent with the Prussian one providing also shako heads for making Landwer and maybe even Jaegers is already a very big asset and gift to FPW fans...compliment to Perry brothers
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If we go back to the very first Perry plastics, the ACW figures released in early 2009, the basic operational mode can be observed already back then: an entirely new range (ACW) is announced, with a box of plastic infantry as the first release (in this case exceptionally almost immediately followed by a box of plastic cavalry), followed by a line of metal packs and eventually additional plastic boxes over years. Since then, they have done the same with WotR, WWII ranges and some of the Napoleonic ranges - and likely with this new range too.
Agincourt to Orleans (as well as AWI) plastics demonstrate the other Perry approach to plastics, where they release new plastic set to complement a long established metal range. In case of the Agincourt to Orleans range, the oldest metal packs may predate the plastics in the range by close to ten years, so were not exactly intended as appetizers for the plastics.
I'm with you. I was just pointing out that there have been exceptions :)
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Yus. I assume we'll see these in 2022 maybe? Or late 2021? The 3-ups are still WIP themselves, and that plastic stuff takes time to get done. :) Still, time to get prepared. ;)
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Yus. I assume we'll see these in 2022 maybe? Or late 2021? The 3-ups are still WIP themselves, and that plastic stuff takes time to get done.
I would presume 2021 release, at least for the first set. Past precedent tends to be that once the Perrys have sent the three-ups to Renedra, it takes roughly 6 months until the figures are ready for release.
That said, I would like to give kudos for the Perrys for committing from the start to doing both opposing sides, with plastic infantry. In the past, many manufacturers have had the tendency to put out a range of figures, without following up with obvious opponents.
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Forgot to mention that of course a lot depends on how long it takes for the Perrys to complete the sculpting, if they are quick then Salute 2021 release might be a possibility - but do not count on it.
Perrys themselves are sensible enough not to give release dates estimates until they have the actual sculpts ready.
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yes but FPW is different..in UK wargame word very few care about it...at least 3 British manufactures plus a German one had made minis for this period ..with no particular success for i what i can imagine from blogs and subsequent scarse new subjects....i imagine that FPW is a work of love from Perry brothers because they like the subject but we cannot expect (unfortunatly for me) big ranges like ACW or Medieval....FPW is a very French topic, gamed and loved by few people even in France, having access to French sources, speaking French and loving French culture from inside...anyway let's see and hope that i'm totally wrong..in any case a pair of boxes in plastic from each opponent with the Prussian one providing also shako heads for making Landwer and maybe even Jaegers is already a very big asset and gift to FPW fans...compliment to Perry brothers
I suspect that in the UK more people know about the FPW than about the Carlist War or the War of the triple alliance, yet the Perries have make full ranges to cover these periods.You could even include the British intervention force in the ACW as another obscure subject, not sure whether these ranges are high sellers but I strongly suspect they will be providing a full range for this period, as they seem to do this with all the periods they game.
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I suspect that in the UK more people know about the FPW than about the Carlist War or the War of the triple alliance, yet the Perries have make full ranges to cover these periods.You could even include the British intervention force in the ACW as another obscure subject, not sure whether these ranges are high sellers but I strongly suspect they will be providing a full range for this period, as they seem to do this with all the periods they game.
Michael tends to do more of the esoteric stuff and Alan of course has the gargantuan Napoleonic Everything ranges and ACW among other stuff.
i think the dynamic duo work really well in balance :) Lovely guys too.
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With covid you're in for a long wait!
Three ups in display for salute next year, with a release late next year.
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With covid you're in for a long wait!
Three ups in display for salute next year, with a release late next year.
I can be patient :)
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Speaking of Alan, I belive he mention that he was reading a few books on the American war of 1812..... :D
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I like the look of those, could be tempted into a Sharp Practice-type force, and maybe scope for taking the French back into the Italian Unification kerfuffle.
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Speaking of Alan, I belive he mention that he was reading a few books on the American war of 1812..... :D
Great news to hear! I'd really like that, Brigade has a great range but I've been put off by shipping costs.
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I like the look of those, could be tempted into a Sharp Practice-type force, and maybe scope for taking the French back into the Italian Unification kerfuffle.
If you swapped out the Chassepot arms for the arms on the Perry Elite Companies sprue (epaulettes but with muzzle-loaders), you could definitely make 1850s-era French!
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/Elite%20%20frame%20Elite%20box.jpg
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Blast! This box might even get me into the period. It’s an immensely interesting conflict, which saw many innovations. And the kitbash potentials are also exceptional.
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Fantastic news! Look forward to the release :-* But, will probably opt for the metal packs of which I am sure there will be many interesting units and characters depicted.
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Well that's me signed up. Was just going to a gargantuan FPW Foundry order this September, but will put the funds away for these. A la Neil Thomas' Nineteenth Century Rules.
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If you swapped out the Chassepot arms for the arms on the Perry Elite Companies sprue (epaulettes but with muzzle-loaders), you could definitely make 1850s-era French!
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/Elite%20%20frame%20Elite%20box.jpg
Thanks for that, saved for future reference :)
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If you wish to convert the French infantry to an earlier period (say the Crimean War or the 1859 Italian campaign), you will also need to remove the expense ammo pouch worn on the front of the belt as it was only introduced with the Chassepot rifle :
(https://www.soldaademohler.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0713.jpg)
(https://www.soldaademohler.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0710.jpg)
(https://www.soldaademohler.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0707.jpg)
Incidentally, the French occupation troops present in italy during the 1860's tended to wear the regulation M1861 uniform rather than the greatcoat, as shown in the (bad) pic below of French soldiers in Rome :
(http://military-photos.com/FRROME2.jpg)
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Oooooh! This does make my idea about a 'Battle for Dorking' type force a possibility. Wonderful! :D
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Not a period I have much interest in but they look very nice. Would any of those troops be suitable for any colonial conflicts?
Steve
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Prone and kneeling models. Those are a must.
And Tirailleurs Algeriens! And Turcos! And Republican troops! And Communards!!! And franc-tireurs!
The lists is almost endless... :-* :-*
A long list indeed, but it becomes slightly shorter when you remember that tirailleurs algériens are turcos. You may have been thinking of zouaves.
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Really excited by this range, although I really possibly do not need them yet!
Our house has a cupola that was used as a lookout by the brigade commander of Mayenne, as it I saw the highest point in Mayenne. They seen the approach of the Prussians from the direction of Alençon and Aron, after the defeat at Le Mans of the Western Army, and the retreat to the Mayenne River Line.
(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/16/aa/e1/4c/le-hotel-de-herce.jpg)
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Or just not bother with messing around with minor details...
If you wish to convert the French infantry to an earlier period (say the Crimean War or the 1859 Italian campaign), you will also need to remove the expense ammo pouch worn on the front of the belt as it was only introduced with the Chassepot rifle :
(https://www.soldaademohler.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0713.jpg)
(https://www.soldaademohler.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0710.jpg)
(https://www.soldaademohler.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0707.jpg)
Incidentally, the French occupation troops present in italy during the 1860's tended to wear the regulation M1861 uniform rather than the greatcoat, as shown in the (bad) pic below of French soldiers in Rome :
(http://military-photos.com/FRROME2.jpg)
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Oooooh! This does make my idea about a 'Battle for Dorking' type force a possibility. Wonderful! :D
That's my thought as well :D
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Long and eagerly awaited. I will buy the plastic sets, even if I am a fan of metal figures. Whatever the Perrys have in the pipline now, it will be interesting. Except for Wargames Foundry there is no complete range on the market. There is no question who is compatible with whom. It will be exciting.
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There is no question who is compatible with whom. It will be exciting.
Hopefully they are compatible with Northstars 1864 and 1866 line. I'd like to do all three of the wars of German unification. It would be handy if they are compatible as then I can save some cash not needing two different Prussian Armies, one to fit with the Northstar figures and one to fit with the Perrys French as I believe the Prussian army was the same in all three wars, bar the change to breech loading artillery in the Franco-Prussian war.
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Hello,
I'm a great fana of the FPW, and the new Perry range is like christmas for me !
this could of some interest for those who need practical and cheap infos :
(https://i32.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/l-arme10.png) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/491)
It presents all the differents units with field dresses, especialy for garde national, francs tireurs (each unit had a particular dress!) etc ...
best regards
paco
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Well, I wonder if I will finally get to do that long cherished Prisoner of Zenda project - in plastic!
I see some mid C19th German states kitbashing in my future... ;)
I’m already working out which parts from the British colonial sets I can use to hybridise those Prussians >:D
Ver interesting idea. It is a while ago that I heard of it and read the book. So, introduce it again to me - in plastic this time
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Any whispers on the wind gents on how these are shaping up? Any close confidants of the Perry twins that can leak some good news to those of us waiting to recruit new additions to the plastic mountain?
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Any whispers on the wind gents on how these are shaping up? Any close confidants of the Perry twins that can leak some good news to those of us waiting to recruit new additions to the plastic mountain?
I couldn't begin to tell you Roo.
As lovely as they are it might it be a bad thing if they take a little longer in the Renedra queue as I'm snowed under with stuff lol
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Any whispers on the wind gents on how these are shaping up? Any close confidants of the Perry twins that can leak some good news to those of us waiting to recruit new additions to the plastic mountain?
I've just seen the post on facebook, and believe I read that there will be an accompanying range of metals.
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Well, I have the honour of sculpting the artillery piece masters for this range, but I'm afraid that does not put me much more in the loop than everyone else! In terms of artillery, I am just starting to build masters for the French 4-pounder and mitrailleuse, plus the Prussian 4-pounder. Something should be with Michael Perry, whose range this is, within about the next month, which is when he wants them by. He will them be sculpting crews for them, which might take another couple of months. I am under the impression that the plastic sets and some metal figures, artillery at least, should be coming out something like February to April time. That's as much as I am aware of.
I can add a little about the artillery. The three pieces listed above are the starting point. They ought to be followed by a Prussian 6-pounder and then a French 12-pounder. The Prussian horse artillery used the standard 4-pounder, but with the well-known axle-seats removed as all the gunners rode horses. So this variant piece will be needed for the range. Horse artillery for both sides will be mainly a figure-sculpting job for Michael as they wore cavalry-style equipment: slung sabres, cartridge boxes and riding trousers, whereas the foot artillery had infantry-style gear. This will cover the ground for the Prussians and for the French in the early, "Imperial" phase of the war. At a later stage hopefully the range should extend to the other German armies. The Bavarians and Wurttembergers at least had their own versions of 4- and 6-pounder guns, so I hope we can do this accurately. The Bavarians even had a battery or two of their very own machine guns (they looked something like a Gardner gun, but were actually their own design, the "Feldl-Geschuetz"). In the "Republican" phase of the war, the French used small numbers of all sorts of quirky artillery: an 8-pounder, a 7-pounder breechloader, Armstrongs and different types of mitrailleuse. They also used a lot of mountain guns, and I recently built a master of the the French mountain gun as part of the Paraguayan War range which Alan Perry is doing, so this might get a more suitable crew sculpted for the Franco-Prussian range. In the fullness of time!
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Thanks gents that list of artillery and suggested dates will keep me interested over the winter. Atheling come on son crack on, spend less time of LAF and more painting😂.
John lovely artillery pieces those new releases...keep looking at elements of the range thinking ‘could I convert to Republican period troops’...must stay strong as I am only meant to be doing the Prussians and mates.
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Thanks gents that list of artillery and suggested dates will keep me interested over the winter. Atheling come on son crack on, spend less time of LAF and more painting😂.
lol lol lol
"I have such sights to show you" soon :D
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I must admit I was flummoxed by the Perry choice of artillery for the Brazilians. There were but a handful of Armstrong field pieces in the Brazilian artillery park. Most of the Armstrong pieces purchased by Brazil were siege guns or fortress pieces. Dunno why they didn’t go with the far more numerous La Hitte pieces. Maybe they will produce some as crossovers for the FPW?
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I think Alan intends to do Paraguyuan War crews for the 4-pounder La Hitte field gun which I am sculpting for his brother's FPW range. Alan and I did put out heads together a little, trying to work out what guns were used by each army in the Paraguayan War. As you say, Carlos, one certainty is that the La Hitte 4-pounder featured heavily. As it sounds like you know something about the subject, have you been in touch with Alan yourself? If not, I am sure he will appreciate hearing from you.
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Delighted John to hear that you are involved on the artillery front.
Might you be encouraged to post some thoughts on wargaming the conflict in 28mm - unit sizes, organisation etc. I know from past exchanges that you have thought about this a lot.
All best
JM
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@John...on the subject of artillery...are you using 3D CAD for these or traditional scratch-building techniques? Just wondering as it seems most people are using CAD and 3D printers these days for such things (not so good for figures but good for equipment and such).
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If the February release estimate is correct, that would be a lot faster than I had imagined. :o
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I am afraid my skills are strictly limited to the physical plane of modelmaking; I would not have a clue how to do the job digitally! Some of you may have seen the extremely neat masters of the Paraguayan War Armstrong guns, which someone else did produce via digital wizardry. However I am optimistic of sculpting guns for this range that compare well with most wargames models in terms of detail and historical accuracy. About half the job is research actually, as full scale plans just aren't available. Even most of the photos that can be found online turn out to be mis-captioned! So it takes time to piece together partial plans and photos of surviving examples, or of contemporary instructional models. With a bit of geometry it's possible to work out missing dimensions credibly enough.
A February release would indeed be on the early side of what we can hope for. I only said that a timescale of something like February to April is consistent with the little I know (and with the Perrys' usual diligent efforts). Anyone who has measured the time that's actually elapsed between photos such as those we saw in July and subsequent release dates may be able to make a better-informed guess.
I think I do remember discussing wargames units, for the 1866 war at least with "Cuirassier", about ten years back. I had my own rules for that period, but the ones I'm using for the FPY are "1871" by Bruce Weigle. I'm a very picky feller when it comes to rules, but can recommend these wholeheartedly. Provided you want to represent big battles and are therefore prepared to accept six 28mm figures on a base as being a battalion (so your "unit" is really a regiment of 18 figures). Which most 28mm wargamers don't seem to be keen on! If you really want to represent the minor tactics and formations of the FPW, then you are going to have very large battalions indeed, because individual companies operated independently by this time, putting out their own skirmishers and so forth. To represent that, especially in 28mm, means you couldn't hope to get more than a brigade per side onto the table. However you want to do it, I would say the 1871 rules and the other sets in Bruce's Grand Tactical Rules series are value for money because of the superb information they provide on armies, tactics, weapons and battles.
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If you are looking for photographs of La Hitte pieces, you could try contacting the curators at the Museu Militar Conde de Linhares in Rio de Janeiro. It’s an excellent museum and has examples of many of the arms used in the Paraguayan War. I’m sure they would be happy to oblige.
rp.mmcl@mhexfc.eb.mil.br
The Museo de Armas de la Nacion in Buenos Aires has a superb collection of armaments from colonial times to the Falklands as well as uniform items so Alan might want to contact them.
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Yes indeed we did chat way back John. Interesting comments. I second the 1871 type rules as an amazing mine of information.
JM
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This is the period that I've painted WAY more figures for that I had no expectation of painting any figures for when I started as a professional painter. It really surprised me not only the number of orders that I got for FPW but the size of the orders.
But all of them were in 15mm. I'm wondering if I'll see any in 28mm with this range. It would be lovely, I have all the resources to paint them.
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John,
Do you have any photos of your 28mm units based as you suggest ?
JM
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update today on Fb :
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/13615910.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/503)
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/13682510.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/504)
1860 helmet had been aded, so we could use the box for danes 1864 war and austro prussian 1866 war .
French metal figures will appear at the same time than prussian plastics, and french plastic infantry later.
best regards
paco
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Very glad that this comes to my notice only now :o :-* o_o
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Zoiks!!! :-* :-* :-*
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Blinking marvellous, although the cast-on blanket rolls will rather put paid to my long cherished Prisoner of Zenda project :'(
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I've often wondered why this conflict didn't get more love from war gamers; looks like that is about to change. :)
because it is harder to balance [but not that hard] and Infantry truly dominate, with guns second and cavalry a distant third. Why paint up a Napoleonic period with lousy cavalry??? Also, it's just one campaign they will say. forgetting that most of the weapons and uniforms were simliar thru the period.
Personally, I find it a great period, and wrote a set of rules for it based off of Neil Thomas' "Wargaming 19th C. Europe" which are a great place to start.
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Blinking marvellous, although the cast-on blanket rolls will rather put paid to my long cherished Prisoner of Zenda project :'(
Agreed! Now scraping them off and making new buttons from lead foil ensues. And some Winter conversions such as in the Liliane and Fred Funcken uniform books is even harder to do now. :?
But not impossible! o_o
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The Perry brothers seem to have the rights for the rule "They died for glory". I hope they will published it !!!
is it a good rule ?
regards
paco
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I am very much looking forward to the minis. I only have one objection with the plastic Minis ..... the collar.
It is always very small and too low. I suspect this is due to the design and the implementation of the separate heads.
You can see very clearly from the 3 Ups that the collar is very small, which was not the case in this era.
I also noticed this in the British infantry for the Zulu War.
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The Perry brothers seem to have the rights for the rule "They died for glory". I hope they will published it !!!
is it a good rule ?
regards
paco
I don't know about that, but they are a spin off of "Brother Against Brother" I believe. BAB is a simple set of brigade rules that was pretty popular. I was recently re-done but had a lot of editing problems - uncertain if those were resolved. A similar set of them was in Peter Dennis' paper soldier's ACW book.
So are they good - maybe, but probably depends on what you define as "good"!
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If you are looking for photographs of La Hitte pieces, you could try contacting the curators at the Museu Militar Conde de Linhares in Rio de Janeiro. It’s an excellent museum and has examples of many of the arms used in the Paraguayan War. I’m sure they would be happy to oblige.
rp.mmcl@mhexfc.eb.mil.br
The Museo de Armas de la Nacion in Buenos Aires has a superb collection of armaments from colonial times to the Falklands as well as uniform items so Alan might want to contact them.
i'm certainly not an expert on artillery..better the opposite...but , years ago, somebody mentioned that the plastic ACW artillery/caissons set produced by Perrys was perfectly suitable for depicting also French standard field piece for 1870 ...by choosing the appropriate barrel (sorry do'nt remenber which one?) ...in that case , in my opinion, even the crews in képis could represent, with minor conversions, French gunners in campaign/more relaxed dress....what do the experts think about that idea?
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i'm certainly not an expert on artillery..better the opposite...but , years ago, somebody mentioned that the plastic ACW artillery/caissons set produced by Perrys was perfectly suitable for depicting also French standard field piece for 1870 ...by choosing the appropriate barrel (sorry do'nt remenber which one?) ...in that case , in my opinion, even the crews in képis could represent, with minor conversions, French gunners in campaign/more relaxed dress....what do the experts think about that idea
I'm not an expert in artillery too , but i think you speak about the barrel of the ACW 12Lb "napoleon" (first one on photo) wich is a copy of the french "canon obusier de 12".
But concerning gunners, they are always in shell jacket in campaign dress, horse or foot artillery! It is just missing the belt for cartridge box...
I don't know about that, but they are a spin off of "Brother Against Brother" I believe. BAB is a simple set of brigade rules that was pretty popular. I was recently re-done but had a lot of editing problems - uncertain if those were resolved. A similar set of them was in Peter Dennis' paper soldier's ACW book.
So are they good - maybe, but probably depends on what you define as "good"!
It had been told on FaceBook, last week by one of the previous owner that Perry brother bought the rights for They Died For Glory....
IMO, a good rule is fastplay, fun, with historical mood ! ;) (not as easy to realise than for me to write... lol)
regards
paco
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I'm not an expert in artillery too , but i think you speak about the barrel of the ACW 12Lb "napoleon" (first one on photo) wich is a copy of the french "canon obusier de 12".
But concerning gunners, they are always in shell jacket in campaign dress, horse or foot artillery! It is just missing the belt for cartridge box...
regards
paco
Well the ammo pouches and belts on the crews are not a problem if we want to scratch built both...they are useful good priced versatile minis ..I already transformed a pair in Garibaldi gunners and another is being transformed in a FFL or generic French engineer with pick in white sleeve /fatigue order ....thanks for the info on Napoleon Gun ..but I imagine that 12 lb is quite a big caliber for just a standard art field piece maybe the other barrels could also do for FPW? ..an howitzer is a small presence in an artillery battery ..we are left with gun carriage that if it’s the same (more or less) of those used by French it will be also very useful for FPW.
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I have done quite a lot of research into the artillery of the FPW, as I have the privilege of sculpting the gun masters for this range. The ACW "Napoleon" was certainly an imitation of the French "Canon de L'Empereur" of the 1850's and the more respectable sort of ACW gunners also had uniforms inspired by French styles. But neither artillery pieces nor uniforms were the same in detail. Just before Christmas I sent a very detailed master for the French 4-pounder to Michael and I can say every specific point is different to the ACW pieces. I would have used components from the plastic ACW set if I could, but it's not possible. You will see the trail is very different, the barrel is different, not just the small fittings. I am now about to convert the 4-pounder master to get the mitrailleuse, which was mounted on basically the same carriage and wheels, then it's the Prussian 4-pounder. The French 12-pounder and Prussian 6-pounder will follow later. I've sent a lot of illustrations and photos to Michael as inspiration for the poses of the gun crew and the equipment used to serve the guns. I think we can be confident the artillery packs will be up to the usual excellent standards in every way, so there will be no need to make do with the ACW stuff. Of course if anyone wants to use the plastic ACW figures to get more variety amongst the gunners, or larger crews than four figures, say, that would certainly be a very valid way to go. There should be scope for swopping the heads of the Plastic FPW infantry set with the ACW gunner bodies, and maybe a few bits of FPW kit to blend them in a bit.
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This set is going to be very useful. Now I need to figure it out which rules I want to use. I know I want something tactical, perhaps with platoons as tactical units. There are several rulesets that cover that range of actions, but I suspect that most of them are very generic. I don't know if they could represent the tactical problems of the FPW. I need to check what there is out there and see what fit my needs.
Anyway, great set, indeed. I can only hope the French get the same treatment! (with models in prone positions, by the way!)
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I have done quite a lot of research into the artillery of the FPW, as I have the privilege of sculpting the gun masters for this range. The ACW "Napoleon" was certainly an imitation of the French "Canon de L'Empereur" of the 1850's and the more respectable sort of ACW gunners also had uniforms inspired by French styles. But neither artillery pieces nor uniforms were the same in detail. Just before Christmas I sent a very detailed master for the French 4-pounder to Michael and I can say every specific point is different to the ACW pieces. I would have used components from the plastic ACW set if I could, but it's not possible. You will see the trail is very different, the barrel is different, not just the small fittings. I am now about to convert the 4-pounder master to get the mitrailleuse, which was mounted on basically the same carriage and wheels, then it's the Prussian 4-pounder. The French 12-pounder and Prussian 6-pounder will follow later. I've sent a lot of illustrations and photos to Michael as inspiration for the poses of the gun crew and the equipment used to serve the guns. I think we can be confident the artillery packs will be up to the usual excellent standards in every way, so there will be no need to make do with the ACW stuff. Of course if anyone wants to use the plastic ACW figures to get more variety amongst the gunners, or larger crews than four figures, say, that would certainly be a very valid way to go. There should be scope for swopping the heads of the Plastic FPW infantry set with the ACW gunner bodies, and maybe a few bits of FPW kit to blend them in a bit.
Thank you John, i am not aware of the particularities and details of each gun and carriages ! It's a good new to have a complete very specific range! i 've always prefered a good historical range to any transformation of exiting other periods/country/ ranges!
..an howitzer is a small presence in an artillery battery ..
With the new 1853 system every gun of a battery is an howitzer, in fact the new "napoleon" is half a canon half an howitzer, it explain his name :" canon-obusier de 12".
In 1858, all guns were rifled (system La Hitte) and used with new amunitions (the famous shells with fuses )
-Each Divisional artillery use 2 batteries of 4"guns and one of machineguns (instead of 4 for the prussian's divisions)
-Each corps' reserve artillery : 2 batteries of 4" 2 batterie and 12" guns and 2 to 4 batteries of 4" horse artillery (instead of 7 for prussian's corps)
regards
paco
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Slightly pre-empting the Perrys' Facebook page, I can report that Michael has very quickly sculpted two different French foot artillery crews to go with the 4-pounder master model which I built, the positions being based on contemporary photographs. Very nice too, of course. Pictures should be on Facebook any day now. I have got the master back and am now converting it for the (in-)famous mitrailleuse, which was based on the same carriage.
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Thank you john ! it is a very good new that some photos of artillery will apeared soon!
some photos of guns from museums :
best regards
paco
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Other photos on frecnh artillery : Caissons
(https://i32.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/_0001310.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/505)
(https://i32.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/_0001610.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/506)
(https://i32.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/_0001810.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/507)
Another one :
(https://i32.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/_0005810.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/508)
a REFFYE machinegun caisson :
(https://i32.servimg.com/u/f32/13/24/33/11/gravel10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/13243311/509)
The REFFYE machinegun, how it works :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO3haWrRtrY
I will scan a lot of plans and l drawings on mitrailleuse de REFFYE, ambulances, cacolet (a mule with two seats for wouded), ammunition caissons for artillery and infantry, "cantiniere" wagon etc ...
best regards
paco
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I could watch that Mitrailleuse animation all day, it's mesmerising. Very interesting.
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Raffye machine gun carriage blue print
paco
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You have posted some useful and interesting images there, Paco, so thanks very much. I have sent you my email address so that we can enter into correspondence.
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Thanks for these nice, big, clear photos of German guns preserved in museums. I believe the one on a grey-painted carriage is a Bavarian 6-pounder. It used the Prussian Krupp 6-pounder barrel, but on a locally-designed carriage. The medium-sized German states used their own gun carriages rather than buying them from Prussia, and Bavaria at least also had it's own design of 4-pounder barrel, made from "bronze-steel". The gun on a blue-painted carriage is a Prussian Krupp 4-pounder of the C/67 model as used in the war of 1870/71. This one is of the horse artillery type- the foot artillery version had axle seats for a gunner each side of the barrel.
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I am slightly surprised no one has posted these yet :
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/143069032_3446705865451495_4232254903785744991_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=wwYt1SZTCfYAX8XbkJd&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=97bc7dd40d9416cbbfc24254366c6465&oe=6038EA09)
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/142776443_3446705828784832_9055115489429039773_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VPds3L85nSsAX8mlhwf&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=75120043aeec3063c3dcf51a2f270d82&oe=603793F5)
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I'm really looking forward to this range! As always the Perry's work is fantastic and it's a great period.
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Woo hoo yeah baby it’s on!
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I am slightly surprised no one has posted these yet :
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/143069032_3446705865451495_4232254903785744991_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=wwYt1SZTCfYAX8XbkJd&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=97bc7dd40d9416cbbfc24254366c6465&oe=6038EA09)
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/142776443_3446705828784832_9055115489429039773_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VPds3L85nSsAX8mlhwf&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=75120043aeec3063c3dcf51a2f270d82&oe=603793F5)
I agree that those photos need the best followers :D !!
some image to think about it !
And a link to my blog for more infos on french artillery during the imperial phase of the war :
http://pacofaitlezouave.blogspot.com/2021/01/1870-lartillerie.html
Best regards
paco
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it seems the first metal figures for this new range have been released:
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/PRU-7-Dragoons-swords-drawn.jpg)
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product-category/metal-ranges/franco-prussian-war-1870-71/
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I thought the metals looked a bit smaller than the anatomy of other figures they make these days. Almost a bit anachronistic. The collars look rather underscaled as well.
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I thought the metals looked a bit smaller than the anatomy of other figures they make these days. Almost a bit anachronistic. The collars look rather underscaled as well.
Hrm, looking at the range there's some interesting figures there for someone like me, who begins with a new era like this. Though, I would love to see some infantry, and will wait until I might've ordered the odd mini to look closer at them.
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Some more photos from their Facebook-page.
(https://i.imgur.com/I6TUXka.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D7j871c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4ZGqRN3.jpg)
The Prussian infantry plastic boxes will be released in July, two boxes with different variation of the same sprues, one marching (or running?) and one firing line/skirmishing.
The french artillery will be released in ”a couple of weeks”. Michael also stated that he is working on the plastic french, ”halfway through” so no release date there yet.
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Fabulous :-*
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Fabulous :-*
+1 They do look great!
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Some more photos from their Facebook-page.
(https://i.imgur.com/I6TUXka.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D7j871c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4ZGqRN3.jpg)
The Prussian infantry plastic boxes will be released in July, two boxes with different variation of the same sprues, one marching (or running?) and one firing line/skirmishing.
The french artillery will be released in ”a couple of weeks”. Michael also stated that he is working on the plastic french, ”halfway through” so no release date there yet.
Must not look, must...not....look, must....not.......... oh my they are beautiful :-* :-* :-* :-* another hole in ones - pension/ bank account /savings / getting kids to work lol