Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: zrunelord on 06 September 2020, 06:59:10 PM
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Hello again all ,
been some time since I posted.
I'm a firm believer in recycling, as most of you know by now. ( see my posts on sprue )
I strongly believe that we are the sole saviours of this planet of ours. I fear that with the easily available
home 3D printers we will produce more & more plastic. The positive thing is that we gamers usually
tend to horde stuff & not throw it away , so please reduce, reuse , recycle.
Here are Scratchbuilt terrain from plant containers 15 to 28mm & diy silicon gaming mats
The guy who we buy plants from had these trays used for putting pots in, seedlings etc.
Obviously as soon as I saw them I thought that they'd be great for terrain. The pics are top
and bottom. As you can see the shapes are excellent for buildings etc.
These are my thoughts.
1) Fill them with plaster & cast but these would be too heavy.
2) Fill them with expanding foam but I have to make a contraform otherwise the
foam will force them out of shape. The pieces can be cut into individual parts.
great for variety. There are corridor like shapes also.
3) The square shapes can have card roofs glued to them , then cut into individual parts & fitted into each other for superb storage. I may glue magnets on the inside so that walls , door, vents etc can be easily removed and will add to endless variation.
https://castrarunis.blogspot.com/2020/09/scratchbuilt-terrain-from-plant.html (https://castrarunis.blogspot.com/2020/09/scratchbuilt-terrain-from-plant.html)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PRjKziwEA8Q/X1UhMzjPh3I/AAAAAAAAQ1M/1WUnLEmaufkRN-MgtEVHtRLRwH4afEWqwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1537/20200906_122216.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GQNVFpXDXqg/X1UhM9wDgnI/AAAAAAAAQ1E/q1h8YSPFphw5CeBS6nigKpEPZMqHiE88ACLcBGAsYHQ/s1568/20200906_122235.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Pj_49KbPc6o/X1UhM99QdqI/AAAAAAAAQ1I/B3XkzFFfm4AbpihoiUSASY_Aj0UvNEdQgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2035/20200906_122252.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pTrnpcZVzDw/X1UhNiXIa1I/AAAAAAAAQ1Q/LAtoQNuXD2UO7j5mO1vn0n3Y0nxBSkclgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2038/20200906_122308.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KPvzxAM6V0I/X1UhN75zLAI/AAAAAAAAQ1U/E4ZXdqCtrCw-bls1XKNBmFIc3O9UxoGdwCLcBGAsYHQ/s2015/20200906_122323.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VfQgm-loKQQ/X1UhNw9yZLI/AAAAAAAAQ1Y/SlnuAAjGY04ophDkOIUroIG11DxuWIvLQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1808/20200906_122340.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yblJIJ303zQ/X1UhODOHB4I/AAAAAAAAQ1c/hNiBencVVqU6iG_W3cGmExU_n2KZ-tT5gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1915/20200906_122400.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pmwEP8_jxAc/X1UhOZHgskI/AAAAAAAAQ1g/ytlgk-4cYZgPpPmtO8M0CP6SK6vrtblvgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1893/20200906_122416.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1hTmXn1ichk/X1UhOg7UlAI/AAAAAAAAQ1k/oOSJhOgnF5oAD5eCAgDrlzJI0N1Mf_j1QCLcBGAsYHQ/s1770/20200906_122433.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ubZRnQj0FlE/X1UhO1m7fRI/AAAAAAAAQ1o/WRXVPI75oPw0ZyGqfU7o13yqI3ZbLeVaACLcBGAsYHQ/s1793/20200906_122450.jpg)
The diy silicon gaming mats is not my idea but by a great Australian guy.It's a great idea to share.
on this link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5W4FKqRbSs&list=PLvPfu-FaNiXdSZByp7kUGAwXWdbIgNxD3&index=102 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5W4FKqRbSs&list=PLvPfu-FaNiXdSZByp7kUGAwXWdbIgNxD3&index=102)
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Lots of very interesting possibilities there, Z. Can't wait to see what you do with them. The top squares and the bottom circles have the most obvious use as stand alone structures in my mind. I prefer the circles to the squares, but I can see pretty easily how I would chop them up for that purpose.
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Yes Cook,
They would make some very interesting terrain.
and here are some 15/18mm buildings using plastic egg cartons. I found out that this stuff is actually very thin polystyrene, i.e. the same stuff used for plastic kits and so can be glued with the normal glue.
It is thin and very brittle but can yield great results. It can also be easily melted to make goo... as explained in another post ... I think I will be filling them with a little expanding foam to make them sturdier then fix them to a card base
Z
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OPRUyCgh6Gs/X4XY6h6IhFI/AAAAAAAAQ3s/bcG9B899cYkUwBMWtkPMtJ3UF6OINfszwCLcBGAsYHQ/s3077/20201008_131813.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J1smATX5z3g/X4XY6pn3ErI/AAAAAAAAQ3o/w_Hi_ns8Ovws8kxsIbPy2Xv_1CszOCONQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2671/20201008_131831.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0wYeYaXo2rM/X4XY7bteCqI/AAAAAAAAQ30/MOMGaV1GuAQN-nUFjjaU7ix6mtFM5AXXACLcBGAsYHQ/s2574/20201012_193032.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9gvT80KF9SQ/X4XY7qFIJBI/AAAAAAAAQ34/l9uMtl_ADqg9jqByyjvJQaqn_kxEXwCzgCLcBGAsYHQ/s2959/20201012_193116.jpg)
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Nice!
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Those look great, I like the shapes!
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Thanks .
As you can see , one can create some nice tech shapes with what is usually thrown away.
I think it is possible to crush them , fill with foam or resin( though this might melt the thin plastic,
still have to try it out ) and create ruins.
I will do connecting corridors next.
Z
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Continuing on building models from recycled materials ( which I will post more about soon ) here is a vid I found which is shows some very nice scratchbuilt from trash models.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9rt8b5bZyI&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9rt8b5bZyI&feature=youtu.be)
Enjoy
Z
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Z
I’m always inspired by examples of smart resourcefulness, yours included!
Dan
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Z, if you fill them with foam do you think the expansion will pop the walls out, or is the plastic rigid enough to direct the expansion out of the bottom? I've got a gaming buddy that has had pretty good luck foam filling his terrain, but I've been reluctant to give it a go.
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Thanks Dan,
Glad you like them.
Cook,
Good question.
I will make an educated guess as I have not tried it .
If the foam expands outward it will mean disaster as this plastic is too fragile.
If it flows up it shouldn't be a problem but it will be a problem if it contaminates the outside of the model.
For sure i will shore up the sides with square heavy weights just to make sure , use small squirts and go round the edge/ cover the sides with masking tape to prevent overflow.
This should help.
Will post more as I have lots of plastic packaging saved up.
Another thing one can do is to make a plaster of paris contraform , but this is only worthwhile if you have loads of the same thing.
Z
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Taking a quick look at your photographs.
I wouldn't recommend using expanding foam As it'll play havoc with the walls and joints. Especially if its a card to card joint . As it can cause de-lamination of one or both pieces of card.
You can achieve a good level of rigidity for builds like this . By using screwed up kitchen foil / tin foil. Packing it into the cavities. It's very quick and simple.Cheap and easy to get hold of.
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If nothing else, some of the more conical, pointy, examples do give us a better understanding of Madonna's wardrobe choices circa 1990.
Jean Paul Gaultier must have drawn his inspiration from somewhere, after all. ;)
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That' s a good one Carlos.
Tin shed .. I still have to see what the chemical in the foam will do.
There will be a reaction for sure.
Will try the tin foil idea,
Card bulwarks are another option.
Z
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Could you put the tray in a bowl of water and weighting down the edges. The water pressure might help equalise that from the foam.
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An interesting idea....
Unfortunately you would need something like a bathtub's volume to perhaps have an effect. .
Now if you were to freeze it , that would be a different matter
Altogether, you can have a small quantity.
One can use natural clay also then wash it off once finished
Z
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I've had expansion foam wreck food packing containers, unaltered ones at that, so I'd be worried that it would tear your lovely creations apart.
You could pick your least favorite building as a test piece?
Would plaster work as a filler?
I know it releases heat when it dries, but I dont know how much.
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Still have to experiment. I have already done stuff with small amounts of foam on
other stuff so I think it is doable.
Plaster of Paris is good as a filler but heavy ( you can decrease the weight & volume by putting
small pieces of foam in it whilst still wet ) and very fragile ( you can add strength to it by mixing 1 part
white cement to 3 parts plaster but it will still break )
You can use resin but it will warp the thin plastic due to heat and it is heavy ( you might use foam infill as above ).
Exp Foam is the way to go. I will post pics as soon as I try it out.
Z
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If you leave the open end of the piece up and insert the foam, you will be less likely to get warping of the plastic, although it can still happen if the plastic is thin or not constrained.
That will, of course, necessitate the need to saw off the excess foam.
What about a reinforcing interior structure.? I've done this for some paper terrain using cardboard, foam core, and just plain foam. All of it works well to improve structural support.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL40opE3t18&ab_channel=EncounterWargaming
Even something as simple as cross beams will do a lot to help (i.e. run some crossbeams/spars from the middle of one side to the other).
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Paper mache could work, but its messy and slow compared to foam.
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Yes off course Maniac,
when I mentioned bulwarks I was referring to card cross beam supports.
I use that frequently on my card builds to strengthen the general shape/form.
It does add weight but not that much. Unfortunately a structural build like this
will only be as strong as the outside material , though it is possible to shore up the
wall thickness with small square pieces of card & pva.
And that was the way I was planning it , to have the foam go up so less
pressure, my main concern is what effect will the solvent in exp foam have
on the very thin plastic, keeping in mind they are very flimsy egg plastic cartons.
Grey undercoat spray can has had no effect on the plastic & that is solvent based.
Another possibility would be to make moulds but that is costly & time consuming
considering that egg cartons cost next to nothing.
Munindk, papier mache might be another possibility especially if mixed with pva.
Thanks all for the feedback
More to come.
Z
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Probably just as easy to panel the piece on the interior, as mentioned, and then potentially brace those panels with card or popsicle sticks. You wouldn't have to be overly exact with any of the interior since it wouldn't be seen, and it would solve all but the hardest of blows to the terrain. I have some thin plastic container terrain like this and I didn't brace any of it. By the time it got primed, painted and sealed I generally felt like it was substantial enough to call it a day. For larger pieces I think I would try foam just to be on the safe side.
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If have extras left, just stack a few one on top of the other. Usually they are designed to stack one on top of the other snuggly. The multiple layers should stiffen it up especially if add glue. Usually this lifts it up so you may need to trim it or add some trim to the bottom edge.
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Munindk, papier mache might be another possibility especially if mixed with pva.
You might be able to make a papier mache "porridge" from and just pour it into the buildings.
Sorry about all the posts about such a small detail of your lovely build, but I'm very interested in easy ways of strengthening flimsy structeres as I've a bunch of half finished projects, and I have issues with expansion foam (its very toxic, unpredictable, absorbs moisture).
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Oh, and I forgot to note, to weight down a piece you can glue washers or nuts to the inside/bottom of the structure. You could glue a couple to the bottom of walls if you don't have a base. A 1.5" or 2" fender washer adds some nice heft.
I did this on the bottom panel of some of the infinity boxes/crates, and it works great.
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Ok ....one by one
Maniac .. good idea washers would be useful.
Munindk... no need to say sorry my friend, once I used the paper left over from punch machines, the ones that are used for binding A4 documents. Mix all the little bits with pva & you have papier mache. If mixed with black or grey paint will make great rubble piles. I also mixed them with resin to good effect.
Exp foam is indeed toxic but small amounts such as this should not cause problems ( unless you get it on your hair or on your wife's/mother's favourite sofa :D :D :D)
Braz - some of them have carton halves glued on the inside. This will come out once I undercoat them ( soonish )
Cook - I am clumsy & frequently drop things ;). They will break eventually. Bracing them with card will help,
Will post pics asap.
Z