Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Cacique Caribe on October 12, 2020, 09:59:07 AM
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A) If so, how do you like it?
B) What don’t you like about it?
C) What settings did you use it for?
Please give us the scoop. Thanks
PS. Full title: Rogue Stars: Skirmish Wargaming in a Science Fiction Underworld (Osprey Wargames)
https://ospreypublishing.com/rogue-stars?___store=osprey_usa
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Played it a few times but didn't like it.
Seemed very crunchy and the game just didn't seem to flow.
Used it for a couple of star wars games, Strontium dog and judge Dredd.
Much prefer the Necromunda rules.
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My son and I played quite a bit of it when it first came out - he declared it his favourite game - but we haven't played it for a while.
It's pretty good, I think, but it does different things from many other sci-fi games. Its main feature is modelling very intense and claustrophobic firefights. Movement is in very small increments, fatigue builds up quickly, and shooting is rapid and fairly deadly.
For that reason, I think it'd be best played in successive 'episodes' that collectively make up a scenario: for example, space pirates raiding a planetary bank and encountering guards outside, then in the corridors and then in the vault.
By contrast, the same author's Mutants and Death Ray Guns gives you more of a free-flowing game so that you could do all of those episodes as one.
We tend to play Mutants and Death Ray Guns a lot more - mainly because we know it virtually off by heart and because its "time to table" is very short. Rogue Stars involves counters and a lot of modifiers, so it's a bit more work to get on the table. But we certainly enjoyed it when we played it, and we'll give it another go at some point. We didn't use any specific setting for it: we just played it with a variety of sci-fi minis.
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Echioing Hobgoblins advice - I played it the way I still occasionally dig out the old Inquisitor rules - small board, a limited 'scene' of an encounter, then the next scene etc. works really well then. Not really as a classic skirmish game.
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It has it's own sub forum here so people must be playing it.
We tried it but quickly switched over to Void Pirates which does the same sort of thing but is much more "fun". Found Rogue Stars to be too "serious", it being very finicky and requiring more attention to detail.
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Our game group tried it half-a-dozen times when it was first released.
To be fair, we were all hoping/expecting a fast, fun 'ASOBH in Space' (ASOBH is a group favorite) but very quickly found RS on the other end of the game spectrum.
Words like 'clunky', 'tedious', and 'unnecessarily complicated' were thrown around. Several of the members said they'd played RPGs with faster action/combat resolution.
Everyone was pretty disappointed.
But like I said, based on the hype and promo, and previous rule sets, we had certain (and not wholly unreasonable) expectations.
We've never played it again.
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To be fair, we were all hoping/expecting a fast, fun 'ASOBH in Space' (ASOBH is a group favorite) but very quickly found RS on the other end of the game spectrum.
Mutants and Death Ray Guns is precisely that game, I reckon - especially with the supplement that introduces ASOBH-style reactions. If you ignore the post-apocalyptic rules (guns and power armour jamming) and the random character generation, it's got everything you need for sci-fi ASOBH.
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The game has a "steep" learning curve, but is awesome once you understand it. The big question is, what does "Steep" mean. There are a lot of modifiers in the game. You roll a d20 and start with a target number of 10. The modifiers then raise or lower that target number. The biggest part is that moving, shooting, standing up, etc all have modifiers. This is where people get lost in the game. And when I first played, I also got lost in it. I didn't like the game. It was way to fiddly and the modifiers all got in the way of playing. The game went on the shelf and started to get dusty.
Fast forward a year or so, and I wanted to introduce one of my daughters to gaming. I don't know why I thought RS would be the best choice for this. I pulled the game off the shelf and decided to give it another go. The amazing thing is that my daughter picked up the rules immediately and we were playing a game within a few minutes! Was this the same game that my group and I had played previously? We kept playing different scenarios and had a blast.
I reintroduced the game to my group and we all loved it. We realized that you only needed to memorize a few modifiers. All the ones that are listed are mostly edge cases. And it's those edge cases that allow you to do whatever you want in the game. You want to leap from one platform to another while switching weapons and being shot at? Yup, we can figure out that target number. You want to crawl on your belly through some mud while carnivorous plants are trying to eat you? Here's your target number.
So, this really is a gem of a game. You can create any type of character, situation, scenario you want. And you only have to really come up with your own designs if it doesn't fit in with all the premade ones in the book. There are three tables that help you come up with why you're fighting: Mission, Location, and Complications. You can create some really awesome games with these tables.
So, like I said in the beginning, the game has a "steep" learning curve which really means to figure out what modifiers are the ones to memorize, and then you'll have a blast playing. This really is a diamond in the rough game.
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If you only want to have one team, & play often with that team,
it is a fine set of rules. Tension builds up & if you are stupid enough
to stand around in the open you will quickly die.
You MUST remember what your particular team members can do.
That, and the complicated points rules, mean it is best to keep the
figure count way down.
If, like me, you like painting up Sci-Fi figures & want a quick, simple,
fun set of rules, that you can use for any set of figures/setting,
I would recommend Galactic Heroes (from the 'Fist Full of Lead' stable of rules).
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I love Rogue Stars and the scenario generator and the gameplay. The wounds and hit resolutions are a bit arcane.
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Hmm. I was hoping for something for 10-15 figures per side. Perhaps as many as 20 alien natives (or mining colonists) vs a ship’s small crew.
Dan
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Dan, you're looking for an open miniature, player v player, RPG-lite skirmish game? How crunchy?
I know a lot of folks like the previously mentioned Mutants and Death Ray Guns and Galactic Heroes - which I've heard good things about but never played.
What about modifying Pulp Alley? (great game) Or looking into Void Pirates or Rogue Planet?
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Dentatus
Define “crunchy”. I’ve been buying SciFi figures for years but never played any SciFi rule sets with them. So I’m definitely open to suggestions.
I want a Firefly feel if possible. Basically a ship’s crew that is always finding trouble, even when they aren’t looking for it.
Don’t care much for specialized cards in a game. Just want basic rules, my minis, dice and measuring stick, and some record sheets when necessary. And, for now, it would need to be played solo.
Dan
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How about Savage Worlds? It plays incredibly fast, is intuitive once you get a few basic rules under the belt, differentiates between heroes and mooks in a pleasing, easy way, and can handle from a handful to dozens of figures per side. It does use a card activation system (no special cards, just a regular deck), but you could ditch that if you want to. Might be worth a shot!
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How about Savage Worlds? It plays incredibly fast, is intuitive once you get a few basic rules under the belt, differentiates between heroes and mooks in a pleasing, easy way, and can handle from a handful to dozens of figures per side. It does use a card activation system (no special cards, just a regular deck), but you could ditch that if you want to. Might be worth a shot!
Is this the one you mean?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_info.php?products_id=261539&
Is it only available as a PDF? Perhaps a paperback version?
Dan
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Is this the one you mean?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_info.php?products_id=261539&
Is it only available as a PDF? Perhaps a paperback version?
Dan
Here you go, with lots of reviews too!
https://www.amazon.com/Savage-Worlds-Adventure-S2P10023-Hensley/dp/1950082008/ref=sr_1_1?crid=VALAMLX2GX33&dchild=1&keywords=savage+worlds+adventure+edition&qid=1602560836&sprefix=savage+worlds+%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-1
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Hmm. Looks like Savage Worlds requires use of a deck of “adventure” cards.
About “Mutants and Death Ray Guns” and “Void Pirates” ... do either of those rule sets allow for asymmetrical numbers like I mentioned earlier, a small (handful) but experienced crew of a ship vs 15-20 alien natives (or mining colonists)?
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/35425/mutants-and-death-ray-guns
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/223872/void-pirates
Dan
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If you want a game that's sometimes asymmetric in numbers (e.g. a crew of five against 20+ aliens), Pulp Alley is a good fit - and would work for scenarios with more players: perhaps two or three rival crews and 20-odd aliens. It also covers dangerous terrain, traps and other dangers by default. You need its special deck of cards (though you can print them out from the PDF).
The more players you have, though, the more Fistful of Lead will tend to be your answer: it's flat-out the best system for games with lots of players. It does the asymmetric thing too, though it's more likely to get bogged down with higher numbers, as its "gang members" act independently whereas Pulp Alley's act in groups (so each of your 20+ aliens would be essentially be a hit point for a group of five). It uses counters for wounds and shock (either on the table or on the roster sheet).
Mutants and Death Ray Guns is excellent too, though probably best with only two or three players and with sides of one to six characters each. Like Fistful of Lead, its 'mooks' act independently, so it can get bogged down in asymmetrical games. I wouldn't use it if one side were to have 20 or 30 models: Pulp Alley is best for that job. Mutants and Death Ray Guns is the simplest of all these systems, and you won't need to consult any charts or tables or the rulebook at all after your first game or two.
Then there's Rogue Planet. It handles mooks in a similar way to Pulp Alley, so it can cope with asymmetry in numbers well. It's a really interesting game - more sword and planet or 40Kish than strict sci-fi. If you want power-armoured characters picking up foes and hurling them into terrain, or psychics lifting their enemies into the air, it's your game. I'm not sure how well it plays with more than two players - never tried it.
I'd rank Mutants and Death Ray Guns first for speed of play and 'time to table' - you can stat up a warband/crew in a few minutes using the www.ganeshagames.net/army_builders/MDRGbuilder.html]online warband builder[/color] (http://[color=navy).
Fistful of Lead is the best game for high player numbers, thanks to its brilliant activation system, which keeps everyone involved.
Pulp Alley works best for asymmetric character numbers and lots of derring-do (unexpected events and heroics).
Rogue Planet is best for off-the-wall heroics and a more fantastic feel.
They're all great games, though!
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Hobgoblin, are you and I the only two who love Rogue Planet??
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Hobgoblin, are you and I the only two who love Rogue Planet??
It sometimes feels that way! But there's a good blog out where someone's statted up lots of 40K types and made downloadable cards for them.
So there may in fact be three of us!
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Hmm. Looks like Savage Worlds requires use of a deck of “adventure” cards.
About “Mutants and Death Ray Guns” and “Void Pirates” ... do either of those rule sets allow for asymmetrical numbers like I mentioned earlier, a small (handful) but experienced crew of a ship vs 15-20 alien natives (or mining colonists)?
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/35425/mutants-and-death-ray-guns
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/223872/void-pirates
Dan
Adventure cards are just simply a pack of cards.
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About “Mutants and Death Ray Guns” and “Void Pirates” ... do either of those rule sets allow for asymmetrical numbers
Void Pirates certainly does. You allocate a "type" to each figure/character and that determines how many skills and abilities they can have. Basic "Trooper" class are your cannon fodder types (the example given in the rulebook is a Star Trek 'Red Shirt'.
Trooper does not signify anything other than the class, it could be a basic human, or a space slime creature, or an insect or a clone warrior, or a....whatever works for your game.
Player teams/gangs/units/crews are minimum 2 figures (both would be extremely well skilled and highly effective) to generally 6 or 7, allocating specific skills to each; a leader, an explosives expert, a medic, a sniper etc.
But you can equally use the options to create a leader and horde followers by just having lots of basic trooper types.
We have used these rules for Star Trek, Buck Rogers, Serenity and generic space opera skirmishes.
The other game that does this few vs many style well is the old Grenadier "Kill Zone" but I am not sure of its current availability.
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It might be handy to compile some 'asymmetry ratios' - I had to do that to work out which system to use in a recent game.
Of the games I looked at, Pulp Alley allowed for the biggest difference without bending the rules. You can quite readily field one league that consists of just one person and another that consists of 51 (one leader with all 10 slots spent on 'mobs' - the lowest-quality gangs). So, the 'asymmetry ratio' is 1:51 with mobs or 1:26 with regular gangs - and you can combine mobs, gangs and other character types to get whatever number you want below 51.
Fistful of Lead generally allows a 5:7 ratio; most crews have five characters, but you can replace one regular with three grunts. You could bend the rules and replace more, but as the grunts act independently rather than being effectively one character represented by several models, that would slow things down quite a bit and probably unbalance the card-based activation system.
Mutants and Death Ray Guns is points-based (unless you use the random generators in the books), but is designed for around six a side. A 3:10 ratio is probably about as far as you'd want to go. Otherwise, for asymmetrical games using the Song of Blades engine, it's best to either have several players against one or have attacks come in waves (a defeated warband is replaced with a new one).
Rogue Planet is also points-based and much more freeform. You could probably stretch it out to something similar to Pulp Alley as it uses a similar system of 'figures as hit points'.
It would be good to what the ratio is for Void Pirates, Savage Worlds and other games. I really like asymmetrical games, and it's useful to be able to work out what's the best tool for the job.
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As Swiftnick says, all Savage Worlds needs is a regular deck of cards. They do sell another deck (the Adventure Deck?) to add more mayhem to things, but again, it is purely optional and not needed for standard game play. And of course it's easy enough to scrap the whole card activation thing and replace it with a roll off or some other system that you like.
But this isn't to belabour the point. Lot's of good suggestions here, many of which I greatly enjoy myself. FfoL is great fun, though it can be a little counter heavy; Void Pirates is another excellent suggestion - as has been pointed out, there are no rules for real cannon-fodder mooks, but you can easily tweak the trooper class to fall over more easily. ;)
Best of luck with your search. Let us know what you end out using!
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As Swiftnick says, all Savage Worlds needs is a regular deck of cards. They do sell another deck (the Adventure Deck?) to add more mayhem to things, but again, it is purely optional and not needed for standard game play. And of course it's easy enough to scrap the whole card activation thing and replace it with a roll off or some other system that you like.
The “Adventure Deck” is the one I saw listed there.
My thing with specialized cards is that, if you happen to lose one, replacements are nearly impossible to get unless you’ve scanned them all. The idea of a normal standard deck of playing cards, on the other hand, doesn’t bother me too much.
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Void Pirates certainly does. You allocate a "type" to each figure/character and that determines how many skills and abilities they can have. Basic "Trooper" class are your cannon fodder types (the example given in the rulebook is a Star Trek 'Red Shirt'.
Trooper does not signify anything other than the class, it could be a basic human, or a space slime creature, or an insect or a clone warrior, or a....whatever works for your game.
Player teams/gangs/units/crews are minimum 2 figures (both would be extremely well skilled and highly effective) to generally 6 or 7, allocating specific skills to each; a leader, an explosives expert, a medic, a sniper etc.
But you can equally use the options to create a leader and horde followers by just having lots of basic trooper types.
We have used these rules for Star Trek, Buck Rogers, Serenity and generic space opera skirmishes.
The other game that does this few vs many style well is the old Grenadier "Kill Zone" but I am not sure of its current availability.
Wow, Void Pirates seems more flexible than I initially thought. I’m just not into battles that look too evenly prearranged (like 5 or so vs 5 or so), almost mirroring each other. That’s too unrealistic for me, even for SciFi.
The “red shirt” option certainly sounds appealing!
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I put my thoughts on Rogue Stars here:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/02/review-rogue-stars-osprey-wargame-series.html
If you are interested in Sci-Fantasy, then Rogue Planet is pretty nifty.
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2020/07/review-rogue-planet-bombshell.html
Thoughts on Pulp Alley here:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/04/review-pulp-alley-pulp-alley-publishing.html
Some other games that no one has mentioned yet that maybe interesting to you:
-Rampant Suns- Wargame Vault
-Blasters and Bulkheads- 4-Color Studios
-Spaceport Scum- Wargame Vault
- Planet 28- Wargame Vault
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- Planet 28- Wargame Vault
that's a good one that is! It's free to download and I hear the writer is devilishly handsome and witty...;D
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that's a good one that is! It's free to download and I hear the writer is devilishly handsome and witty...;D
Never heard of these before, and I'm intrigued. Mammoth, can Planet 28 handle asymmetrical skirmishes also? My current love is classic Battlestar Galactica, so say a handful of human hero types versus a larger number of Cylons whose danger is in their numbers rather than their skill. Could your rules do that?
I know I could just buy the thing and find out, but any information would be helpful. They sound quite appealing (as does the author by your description! lol).
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Never heard of these before, and I'm intrigued. Mammoth, can Planet 28 handle asymmetrical skirmishes also? My current love is classic Battlestar Galactica, so say a handful of human hero types versus a larger number of Cylons whose danger is in their numbers rather than their skill. Could your rules do that?
I know I could just buy the thing and find out, but any information would be helpful. They sound quite appealing (as does the author by your description! lol).
I did plenty of playtesting with asymmetrical fights - i'd say it works quite well but obviously I am biased. i will say that the sweet spot for the game is between 1-8 characters per warband if you're using individual characters, but if you use a generic "mook" type enemy then you could potentially run alot of them and only need to keep track of individual modifiers and health.
the solo expansion has some rules for single character warbands which would help. :)
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That's most helpful, thank you!
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Review of Void Pirates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCuJTxJO-3w
And some videos of games using Void Pirates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoBfJCJeXKc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyc5v0576qs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbVtpfy9UJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i82xfqqgeVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPsJklik9N0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqeVdTzKwAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7dSmtfBjpM
He’s got more games using the rule set.
Dan
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Ok. After watching a few of those videos, I’ve decided to make Void Pirates my very first SF rule set. I’ve just ordered it from here:
https://www.lulu.com/en/en/shop/scott-pyle/void-pirates/paperback/product-1v4dy5k7.html
I’m really curious now.
Thanks for all your great suggestions, guys!
Dan
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Review of Void Pirates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCuJTxJO-3w
And some videos of games using Void Pirates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoBfJCJeXKc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyc5v0576qs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbVtpfy9UJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i82xfqqgeVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPsJklik9N0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqeVdTzKwAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7dSmtfBjpM
He’s got more games using the rule set.
Dan
Thank you for finding those links, Dan. I have to admit that watching nicely presented games on Youtube is one of my guilty pleasures, and that guy does a very good job - nice looking table, lots of enthusiasm and he explains the rules well. (I think he's making a few oversights rules-wise, but you'll learn soon what they are.) This has inspired me to crack out VP and give it another whirl. Many thanks again, and keep us posted on what you think!
Daryl
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Thank you for finding those links, Dan. I have to admit that watching nicely presented games on Youtube is one of my guilty pleasures, and that guy does a very good job - nice looking table, lots of enthusiasm and he explains the rules well. (I think he's making a few oversights rules-wise, but you'll learn soon what they are.)
Glad you like them. I’m going to have to watch all his videos too!
This has inspired me to crack out VP and give it another whirl. Many thanks again, and keep us posted on what you think!
Daryl
Daryl, if you go back to playing Void Pirates, I’d love to hear all about it! Thanks so much for fueling my interest in the rules.
Dan
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Update
I couldn’t resist the price on Amazon, so I went ahead and also ordered Mutants and Death Ray Guns!
Dan
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Daryl, if you go back to playing Void Pirates, I’d love to hear all about it! Thanks so much for fueling my interest in the rules.
Dan
Glad to be of service! One thing to remember is that the system won't handle 10-15 figures a side easily, due to its lack of rules for cannon-fodder types, but there are some ways this might easily be fixed. Once you get the rules and give them a once or twice over, come back and we can compare notes! Best of luck!
Daryl
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If anyone's still thinking about void pirates, Lulu has a 20% discount this weekend on printed books - use code BIGTREAT20
I may take the plunge, although I'm not exactly short of rules to read just now ;D
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Zemjw
Thanks for that!
I may have missed out on the discount, but I hope that others take advantage of it. A 20% discount is always a good thing.
https://www.lulu.com/en/en/shop/scott-pyle/void-pirates/paperback/product-1v4dy5k7.html
Dan
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=127691.0
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Bit late to the party but here is my RS batrep:
http://lifeonjasoom.blogspot.com/2017/01/rogue-stars-aar-great-escape.html
When the game first came out, I wrote up a rules overview:
http://lifeonjasoom.blogspot.com/2016/12/rogue-stars-overview.html