Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: SJWi on February 17, 2021, 06:15:43 PM
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I realise that this thread is likely to get some pretty partizan replies so will explain more. I have never been a big Napoleonics fan, but about 9-10 years ago was lured into it when Warlord's Black Powder was released. Before I knew it I had Peninsular Portuguese, Spanish and Kings German Legion in 28mm, with other friends fielding the dastardly French . We played a few games of Black Powder before losing interest, and my main opponent is currently an ex-pat overseas. I have considered selling my collection but my mate has told me "I'll be back one day" and so I am going to keep hold of them. That still leaves the question of rules. Our forces may amount to about 10-12 infantry units, 3-4 cavalry units plus a few guns per side. I can't see us going much bigger than that plus we normally only game on a 6 x 4 table.
I've seen the thread talking about "Lasalle v2", and my mate has bought Reisswitz Press' "General de Brigade" . Any view on the merits of the various rulesets out there that would suit this size of battle?
Thanks.
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Ah, 'best for that collection of figures' narrows down the options.
With those figure counts, you may want to look at DBN. There are lots of good gameplay videos on Youtube as the author has been whiling away lockdowns. These should give you a pretty good idea if you might like the game or not. Rules are always scale-agnostic, adjust base sizes and ranges to taste. Each stand represents a brigade and each side is a corps up to a full army.
https://www.youtube.com/user/DBNwargaming/videos
This fall, Osprey will be releasing Silver Bayonets, Napoleonic skirmish level with Gothic horror thrown in. May or may not prove to be an entertaining game, stay tuned.
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Cat, many thanks. I hadn't heard of DBN before but have just checked out their website. As well as the Napoleonic set the WW1 Middle East rules look intersting!
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I like Lasalle and have played v1 many times. Not tired v2 yet, but there is plenty of information on it on the Sam Mustapha website - https://sammustafa.com/, including a sample scenario so you can suss out if it matches what you have.
Your numbers of units and playing space is very much in line with the the rules, I think, so you'll probably be ok. You shouldn't need to rebase anything either.
I think you mean General D'Armee by Reisswitz (Too Fat Lardies) you don't like Lasalle, give them a read. Again I think you'd be ok with numbers of units, but possibly less so with the playing surface. I have them too but prefer the former.
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Emir, yes , you spotted my deliberate mistake. More seriously I am now confused. The same author has written General de Brigade published by Caliver Books and General de l'Armee published by Reisswitz Press. Apart from the titles which imply different scales of battles can anyone explain the core differences. I suspect I may have the same problem with his new WW2 rules "O'Group" which seem aimed at the same level of ORBAT as his previous rules published by Partizan Press.
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It does depend on what you like. Given your 'design brief'
I would go for Rebels & Patriots.
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has.been, thanks for the tip. I must admit I thought "Rebels and Patriots" was more a company level game "skirmish" game akin to Sharpe Practice 2 ? I guess what I was trying to get over is that I have a few brigades per side of say 12, 24-figure battalions plus cavalry and guns. I'm not a Napoleonic devotee with huge armies....or any intent to buy much more!
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I think I would test Fistful Of Lead: Big Battles bei Wiley Games. The designer of the rules is here in the forum and makes great support. You can find the rules here. Easy, but great in the possibilities in Games. Card/Dice-driven Engine. Here is the Webpage: https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/
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Bataille Empire might be worth you exploring. They are not cheap(£32 in the UK) but the single volume has the rules, copious background information and extensive army lists, plus 4 example scenarios.
More importantly, it would fit with your troop numbers and table space.
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Thanks everybody.I’ll check out all your recommendations. I don’t know Battaille Empire but know the authors ancient/medieval set “L’Art de Guerre” is well regarded. The price tag doesn’t put me off. Having spent several hundred £s on figures and months or even years painting to scrimp and save over a good rule set now seems stupid.
One good thing. There seem to be a few good sets out there at the moment.
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I have a copy of General de Brigade Deluxe (as new) going cheap. Bought but never played.
£22 including postage (2nd class in UK), if you are interested PM me. I think they normally retail for £32.
If you don't want them, this was a reminder to put them on ebay. Thanks.
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Coming soon: Shadows of the Eagles by Keith Flint, designer of Honours of War, Seven Years War rules. Designed for 3-6 brigades per side, rather like your collection. Number of figures/basing not an issue. Units take anumber of hits, first becoming weakened and then if nor rallied, routed.
I did some game testing for this. An AAR is here: https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2020/02/maida-1806-reprised-shadow-of-eagles.html (https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/2020/02/maida-1806-reprised-shadow-of-eagles.html)
Edit: rules due in late March.
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Welcome to the rabbit hole. Be glad you didn't ask this question on the TMP forum!
But having played and really enjoyed both GdB and GdA, I will try to reply as best as I can.
GdB - Set at a brigade level, a well versed player can run a couple of brigades. There is a lot of granularity and some very good mechanics. E.g. The firepower of a battalion is calculated by the number of figures (1 figure =20men) remaining in the battalion, thereby it allows for casualty removal via taking off of bases when a number of casualties have been taken. It breaks down once you go beyond about a Division(+) per side. I have played large "Army" level Peninsular theater games before, but these were multiplayer and whole day affairs. And in the end, a lot of the battle developed into sectors of roughly 1Div per side battling it out.
GdA - Set at a divisional level, the maneuver elements can still be battalions, but can also jump up to regiments. Battalions are no longer defined by the figure numbers, but now more generally as small, standard, and large. Causalities and battlefield disruption to the battalions are both combined and used to measure the fighting ability of the battalions. As a set they work well in a multi-division/Corps sized game. I haven't tried having multiple Corps on the table yet, but from the sounds of your figure target you aren't aiming for that anyway.
If you are looking for an abstract game I would also recommend DBN, but for more tactical set of rules I would pick GdB. GdA sits in the middle, although to the tactical end.
Other rules I have looked at but not played are:
Morale Napoleon
March Attack
Both look like a very interesting set of rules, and are available on the Wargames Vault for download.
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I like Age of Eagles which is based on Fire & Fury Brigade but has been adapted to Regimental level for the War of 1812.
There are a lot of free scenarios available for Napoleonic’s from the Susquehanna Historical Gaming Club.
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Osprey have a new set coming out, Absolute Emperor
https://ospreypublishing.com/store/military-history/upcoming-books/preorder-3-months/absolute-emperor
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As the discussion appears to have widened somewhat beyond the original poster’s parameters I hope I may be permitted to throw in a couple of new names, albeit more in the hope of seeing comment on them than by making any useful observations of my own.
A set which appeared a few years ago to considerable acclaim and has since had a 2nd edition is Et Sans Resultat! It does not appear to have really caught on beyond a core of devotees, however, at least outside North America. If anyone has experience of playing it I would be most interested in knowing their thoughts.
Arty Conliffe’s Shako has been around much longer and was once at least, quite popular. It too is now on its 2nd edition, but seems to get little coverage.
The League of Augsburg’s From Republic to Empire is another that seems to be largely overlooked, doubtless through no fault of its own.
There are many more, of course, including another set published by Partizan Press, by the name of L’Aigle, which I encountered very recently.
Too Fat Lardies have another set with a Gallic name, Le Feu Sacre which is so overlooked I’ve only just remembered it. I do remember reading a review which said something to the effect that it had plenty of good ideas, but they were rather hard to find. In short, it needed further work to be easily playable.
The above may be of little immediate use to the original poster but in the event someone is able to offer insight gained from experience with any of the named sets something of value may emerge.
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I did some of the photography for Keith F's book. Publication is imminent.
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Who is the publisher? Presumably not Osprey, in view of the other offering.
Edit: I now see it’s Partizan, in spite of their plethora of Napoleonic rules.
Nothing wrong with that, of course, though it’s just reminded me of Over the Hills, which was originally published by Partizan, though I believe the 2nd edition was self-published by the authors.
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Osprey have a new set coming out, Absolute Emperor
https://ospreypublishing.com/store/military-history/upcoming-books/preorder-3-months/absolute-emperor
It would be nice to know what the smallest unit is; battalion, regiment, brigade or division?
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Andrew, thanks for the other list of rules. With the exception of “Et Sans Resultat” I have heard of them but know no more. I tend to leave the earlier 2FL rules alone.
By the way I think Partizan Press may be the publisher for Keith Flint’s upcoming “ Shadows of Eagles”.
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Yes, indeed they are, as I have just discovered from the author’s blog. I get Caliver Books’ mailshots - it was a recent one which alerted me to the imminent arrival of Lasalle II, which I have now ordered and expect to receive by the weekend - but hadn’t heard anything about Shadows.
I agree with you about older TFL rules, having read but failed to understand the 1st edition of Sharp Practice, which I bought only a year or so before the vastly improved 2nd edition came out.
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Field of Battle 3 will give a good game for the forces you have. Over the Hills is certainly worth a look too.
I'll be interested to see what Keith Flint comes up with.
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I’m not sure it’s a contender for best set, but one that’s difficult to forget is Snappy Nappy. I’m sure it must have a following of some sort.
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I’m not sure it’s a contender for best set, but one that’s difficult to forget ifs Snappy Nappy. I’m sure it must have a following of some sort.
For grand scale battles, I do like Snappy Nappy, a very close second behind DBN. I've had the fun of playing in an all-day multi-player, multi-table battle that went quite well.
With the figure count of the OP, Snappy Nappy would also work as an option.
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At 10 - 12 battalions/ side and a few cavalry regiments i'd still be suggesting General D'armee
Good introductory videos of gameplay available on youtube as well
Edit - the nearest to the Holy Grail I've found in more than 30 years of searching lol
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I am liking General d’Armee the most at the moment, and I go back to buying In The Grand Manner from the hand of Peter Gilder himself!
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Chaps, as the originator of this thread I will say that I am coming down in favour of “General D’ Armee”. Another member of my group has them already ( amongst other rules) and I watched some of a run-through on “Lard TV”. My only observation is that I may need a larger table than my normal 6 x 4 playing area.
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General d’Armee is a good set, but it is complex, and also requires more than 12 units a side to work well. Most scenarios are nearer 20 a side.
If using 28mm you will need an 8x6 table.
The new version of Lasalle looks promising, I must say.
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Chaps, as the originator of this thread I will say that I am coming down in favour of “General D’ Armee”. Another member of my group has them already ( amongst other rules) and I watched some of a run-through on “Lard TV”. My only observation is that I may need a larger table than my normal 6 x 4 playing area.
Do it in 10mm! 😬
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Ben, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I’m not a died-in-the-wool Napoleonic gamer and was rather seduced into trying it when Black Powder 1st came out. My mates and I now have quite a lot of Peninsular stuff in 28mm but are now looking for a new rule set to kickstart the use of our long-dormant collections.
If starting from scratch I would probably opt for Pendraken 10mm.
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On the point of needing a bigger table I think you can just get creative with you battles. Very often players line every unit they have on a base line and throw them at the opponent. This is very unlikely to be what actually happened. You can always have 'off table' reserves. And if you need more battalions then have them recycle. There is nothing really wrong with having a 'fresh brigade' being feed on to the table that looks oddly like the one that just evaporated on the other flank.
I think GdA is a great game and gives the players a lot of interesting choices. One point I'd change in GdA is the strategic movement, it could do with some speeding up. Therefore, depending on how long you have to play. You might wish to deploy your front lines just outside of musket range. If you want to simulate taking long range Arty fire, it is easy to just roll those dice before you start.