Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Ethelred the Almost Ready on 23 February 2021, 07:44:03 PM
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For a long time I have wanted to get back to playing ancients (30 years ago I had Alexandrian Macedonians for Hick of Impact). I am trying to decide between 10mm and 15mm. There seems to be more choice in 15mm than 10mm. Add to this the variability of size within each scale and 10mm looks like it could be limited. Is this correct? What 10mm companies are compatible?
I also need to consider painting time. For a standard MEG base I can have four 15mm figures or ten 10mm figures. I am notorious for not finishing projects. I suspect 10mm will paint up faster than 15mm despite the bigger number of figures. Is this what others find?
Any help appreciated.
As far as armies go, I was thinking late Imperial Roman with enemies as either Goths or Persians.
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For a long time I have wanted to get back to playing ancients (30 years ago I had Alexandrian Macedonians for Hick of Impact).
This doesn’t answer your query but I assume you mean Shock of Impact. I’ve not heard it mentioned in a long time, but for a while it was seen as a refreshing alternative to WRG Ancients 6th edition.
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"Shock of Impact"! Wow, haven't heard of those since the early 1980s. Quite highly regarded in their time as an alternative to the dominance of WRG. I think 10mm units would look more impressive but (a) you need to probably paint twice an many figures and (b) today I think you the choice of figures is still better for 15mm but 10mm is expanding fast. For the 15mm armies you mentionI would look at the "War and Empire" figures sold by Westwind or the new figure range sold by Plastic Soldier Company.
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10mm paint up pretty fast and I think give a better overall effect. Most of them are pretty compatible as variance is small at the scale. I find the infantry from most of the major suppliers mixes pretty well. Cavalry can sometimes be slightly mismatched on the same base with different horse sizes but not so much as they'd look out of place on the same table. I've used and mixed from Pendraken, MM, Newline and Irregular without too much issue. The range is pretty decent across them and growing all the time. Seems to be some of the big suppliers starting to get into smaller scales too.
What periods or conflicts are you looking at? Most of the popular ones are well covered, I only find gaps when getting into very obscure stuff, and even then there are often suitable proxies that a bit of paint and putty can fix.
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This doesn’t answer your query but I assume you mean Shock of Impact. I’ve not heard it mentioned in a long time, but for a while it was seen as a refreshing alternative to WRG Ancients 6th edition.
Yeh, Shock of Impact. Typing on my phone :?
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Something you might want to consider is finding opponents - I think you are much more likely to find people with 15mm armies to play against. That may not bother you though if you are providing both sides.
I don't have much experience with smaller scales but my feeling would be that it would be quicker to paint 4 15mm figures than 10 10mm ones. I suppose it depends how much detail you want to paint.
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I would say it depends on what period of ancients you want to do. If it the Roman Empire period then there are a number of 10mm companies that make them.
Other time periods are more sparse.
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15mm has vastly wider availability and groups of compatible offerings.
10mm, there are limited offerings, but each manufacturer does historical opponents in pretty good depth, so compatibility isn't too big of an issue.
Chariot at Magister Militum has a very wide range.
Old Glory has a fair number of periods too.
Pendraken has some Classical and various Romans.
Kallistra has Medievals and Fantasy.
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In my somewhat limited experience 10mm take just as long to paint as 15mm. That may just be because I'm used to painting 15mm.
Anyhow, that aside, 15mm gives you a lot more choice of figures if that is important to you.
In terms of visual impact Late Roman shields patterns have a greater visual impact in 15mm, likewise Persians and Goths. On the other hand more figures to a base do look good too. It comes down to what you want to achieve in the end.
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In 10 mm, the range is now considerable; Pendraken have a wide and expanding range of excellent figures (now including the TB range following the collapse of the Italians), Newline are very compatible and attractive (and they have regular sales), Magister Militum have a wide range, though a bit pricier, Irregular Miniatures make a number of useful figures though I don't greatly like their proportions and too often an order hasn't arrived or has contained the wrong stuff, Adler makes a small range with lovely variety but hopelessly flimsy swords, Copplestone have some 10mm fantasy figures that can be proxied (only a few, but they're superb), Fogg of War made good ancient Chinese which may resurface some day, I understand Gripping Beast and Old Glory make some - no personal experience there - and Steve Barber makes what may be the prettiest sculpts around. Baggage Train have some too, but with two out of three orders not getting here, I can't recommend their service.
As for what they can do, I will go the the barricades to defend the view that a phalanx of forty figures looks far better than one of 16, and that you can do a lot more detail on 10mm than can be seem on the tabletop. They are cheaper, paint up faster, and store better too. By now I have 10 mm Minoan, NKE, Midianite, Assyrian, Scythian, Nabatean, Mauryan, Ch'in, Han, Achaemenid, Spartan, Athenian, Thracian, Macedonian, Seleucid, Pyrrhic, Antigonid, Gaulish, Iberian, Numidian, Punic, Republican and Imperial Roman, Dacian, Hunnic, and Sassanid armies in 10 mm, and am tempted by Parthians and Hittites from time to time, so I think the range of figures is a bit wider than some maintain!
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Thanks for all the replies. I think Fierce Kitty might have sold me on 10mm. I know from painting 15mm Napoleonic figures that I will try to paint all the detail. For10mm I think I can cope with a quick and simple paint job.
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/207029437080775
The link is to my group "Bangkok Gamers" - there are many pictures involving ancient 10mm.
I forgot to mention Kallistra. They're on the big side, but have still proved useful (I've increased the irregular warband look in my Viking bondi using them), and I think they're starting up a few ancient lines.
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Be sure to check out Van Dyck Models’ 1/144 Early Imperial Romans and Germans. Yes, 1/144.
vandyckmodelsandfigurines.be
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I'm no expert, but there's enough Alexandrian Successors stuff in 15mm that I often find myself wishing I had a way of transforming those into 28mm :D
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Had 10mm been available way back when, I would have gone for the Napoleonics.
But no way I'm changing scales having painted all the Highland Regiments in 15mm!
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Thanks for all the replies. I think Fierce Kitty might have sold me on 10mm. I know from painting 15mm Napoleonic figures that I will try to paint all the detail. For10mm I think I can cope with a quick and simple paint job.
Ah! But they demand better lol
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Ah! But they demand better lol
Some paint is better than no paint.
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The most important point is probably that Magister Militum sells their Assyrian "camels disguised as elephants" in both 10mm and 15mm scales, and those must be among the best miniatures ever to grace a tabletop from a conceptual point of view. I enjoy them so much.
https://www.magistermilitum.com/aem13-assyrian-camels-disguised-as-elephants.html
https://www.magistermilitum.com/eas18-camels-disguised-as-elephants.html
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The most important point is probably that Magister Militum sells their Assyrian "camels disguised as elephants" in both 10mm and 15mm scales, and those must be among the best miniatures ever to grace a tabletop from a conceptual point of view.
¡Truth!
Also reflecting on scale choices — I actually would have been very happy if Napoleonic 15mm had remained 15mm. I've always lamented the never ending scale creep and still really like the old Heritage sculpts. It's such a pity that they never found replacement sculptors of that caliber and that MiniFigs 2nd gen jumped up to 17mm, and the creep race was on.
AB Napoleonics are very beautiful 18+, but they are terrible 15s!
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Your local potential opponents are a really important factor.
In 15mm we are blessed with amazing figures:
Xyston (UK) - all killer no filler, some closer to 18mm, all a joy to paint, first stop for ancients
Forged in Battle // War and Empire (UK) - big packs, loads of new dark ages armies
Legio Heroica (Italy) - again, joy to paint, medievals
Museum (UK) - new Z range for ancients plus massive legacy range (with less variation)
Khurasan (US) - eclectic and generally great
Baueda (EU) - figs and camps
Then the older massive ranges, lie Essex, Donnington, Magister militum (Chariot), and plenty of others, including plastics from PSC (same as Lurkio), new PoD plastics, loads more.
For rules, for 15mm, I think the research bears out that ADLG, MEG and DBMM are most popular globally for ancient-medieval 15mm. But there are many more.
And (apologies for posting this again), until there is a sensible ancients forum that’s user-friendly, the conversations about rules and figures are much more interesting on Facebook now - check out e.g. Museum, Grendell, Mortem et Gloriam, L’Art de la Guerre etc etc.
And for 10mm vs 15mm there’s also Madaxeman’s blogs and podcasts - big Pendraken fan there!
:)
:)
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And for 10mm vs 15mm there’s also Madaxeman’s blogs and podcasts - big Pendraken fan there!
:)
I must have felt the stirring in the force...!
There's also this guide to 15mm manufacturers and what they do on my site - may need updating a little (my fault..sorry!) but pretty comprehensive: https://www.madaxeman.com/main/15mm_ancients_suppliers.php
...and almost 4,000 photos of 15mm ancients here: https://www.madaxeman.com/15mm/index.php