Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Paul @ Empress Miniatures on 04 September 2009, 08:11:46 AM
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From Empress.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Eaglstone/EMPRESS/ZWZ11.jpg)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y232/Eaglstone/EMPRESS/ZWB16.jpg)
There will be some more Brits next week...... and then the cavalry immediatly after - ;)
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Very nice :)
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Nice facial expressions on the British.
Helen
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very individual faces
nice
but aargh, the zulu shield are the late uprising versions......
are they seperate??
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Yes they are seperate and we do have the larger shield in the range.
Not sure what you mean by the late uprising version?
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shaka 1824 - very big shields
zulu war 1879 - very big shields and a bit smaller variants
1887, 1906 - uprisings, small "ceremonial style" shields, because the original shields were recognized as useless against minnie shots - depicted above
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Not sure what you mean by the late uprising version?
By the time of Bhambatha's 1906 rebellion the shields carried by the warriors were very small. I would say they were perhaps even smaller than the ones depicted in the above picture, though. Maybe, maybe not. I can't really remember.
Edit: former user beat me to it.
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Oh, I like those British! Lovely animation and detailing! :-*
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shaka 1824 - very big shields
zulu war 1879 - very big shields and a bit smaller variants
1887, 1906 - uprisings, small "ceremonial style" shields, because the original shields were recognized as useless against minnie shots - depicted above
By your comments above I would say the Empress shields are the "bit smaller variants" and therefore spot on for the Anglo/Zulu war of 1879.
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Edit: former user beat me to it.
why would I?
I have seen some photographs, and who knows what or whom the photographer did depict??
and yes, there are written accounts that the shields were small
that's it
was anyone running around with a ruler? - don't think so
returning to the miniatures
the warriors in theit period costume would belong to the large war-shields
at that time the small shields would be ceremonial or dancing shields
but then the costume would be more ceremonial as well, and even the married warriors depicted would wear a little bit more panache
to the small shields used in combat would also belong the magical tokens (wasn't it a headband or what?) that made the warriors "bulletproof"
an attribute clearly noticed by the british soldiers after the battle when feasting on their fruit salad ;)
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Is the second British figures from the left have a bandaged head under is helmet? It’s hard to tell from the photo.
All those figures are really nice by the way! 8)
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why would I?
I think we're misunderstanding each other here. I'm not sure what you mean by that. When I said "former user beat me to it" I simply meant you had said much the same thing as me. Your post was not there when I started typing mine. I did not want you to think I was ignoring you, as I think it is a little rude when people do that on forums, so I edited what I said to acknowledge your post.
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To clarify there are two shield sizes in the Empress range the large 'earlier' shield that was still being used in 1879 and the smaller shield that had become very common by 1879. Thus the modeller has a choice.
The shields are NOT representative of the far smaller, almost, ceremonial shields seen in the later rebellion period. These were significantly smaller than the ones we model.
Hope that makes sense o_o
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Probably the odd one out here, but the Zulus in my opinion are just 'more of the same' poses with 'added fiddly bits and bobs'. I would like some more agressive looking figures please in a future release. I'd also like some Boers please. I like the British figures much more, but I have more than I need already, so other 'types' are more useful to me.
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To clarify there are two shield sizes in the Empress range the large 'earlier' shield that was still being used in 1879 and the smaller shield that had become very common by 1879. Thus the modeller has a choice.
The shields are NOT representative of the far smaller, almost, ceremonial shields seen in the later rebellion period. These were significantly smaller than the ones we model.
Hope that makes sense o_o
If I remember correctly, the larger ones were retained by older "traditional" warriors, whilst younger ones used the smaller version. Possibly also due to "defense cutbacks" as there was obviously less hide used for each smaller shield.
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Plynkes Dude
got it ;)
but then I should have typed the same, because I think we wrote simultaneously :-X
Empress
thanks for the clarification
apart from the variation due to manufacture and warrior strength/size (after all, there were no shield factories allthough I read they were made by specialists)
I know 4 different sizes (A. Mcbride: The Zulu War. Osprey MaA 57, 1976, referenced by literature and photographs)
1 the large Shaka time shields-shoulder to ankle (also used by veteran warriors, see above): isiHlangu
2 the standard 1879 shields- shoulder to shin, which is pretty large as well, since still used in the traditional fighting technique: umBhumbuluzo
3 dancing and everyday shields (used in the Zulu uprisings)- arm length: iHawu
4 Dress shield- wrist to elbow : amaGqoka
now it seems you refer to the modeler having the choice between isiHlangu and umBhumbuluzo
by my eye measurment, the shields photographed with the models are hardly war shields
(read also my previous post)
which I would also state given my experience with actual shield hand to hand combat
anyway, these are wargaming miniatures and not museum miniature replicas
but in this case my argument would have been:
"we made the smaller shields this size in order to make them distinctive from the bigger ones"
your models are very nice, finely detailed and well proportioned and I like them
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I would suspect there were variations across the Impi. This photos I googled looks post 1879 but depicts quite a few sizes and types. Lets not forget also that throwing spears along with the assegai, knobkerrie and war axe were also part of the armoury. I would appear that form the civil wars fighting styles were changing dramatically not only with the introduction of fire arms.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/ZuluWarriors_adj.jpg)
Lets not get hung up on what each size type was. I have read a lot of Ian Knights books etc and know that the gals at Empress consulted him on ideas and reference. Steve Barber has also been talling with him on a future 10mm series of zulus that he is planning.
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Steve Barber has also been talling with him on a future 10mm series of zulus that he is planning.
Oh no! I haven't got enough 28mm Zulus yet :(
Now that is a good scale for some really big Zulu Impis , with enough potential for painting detail. I can already visualise the Chest, Horns and Loins arrayed for battle :D
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Oh no! I haven't got enough 28mm Zulus yet :(
Now that is a good scale for some really big Zulu Impis , with enough potential for painting detail. I can already visualise the Chest, Horns and Loins arrayed for battle :D
Hehe I am having to paint up one of the bleeding regiments for a demo, 260 figures :( and he is trtying for all 5 for Isandhlwana :o so it should be quite a big battle. Which to be honest I think you need for 10mm in a demo anyways ;)
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Hehe I am having to paint up one of the bleeding regiments for a demo, 260 figures :( and he is trtying for all 5 for Isandhlwana :o so it should be quite a big battle. Which to be honest I think you need for 10mm in a demo anyways ;)
:o good luck! lol
Please try and get some pics of the demo!
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/ZuluWarriors_adj.jpg)
now that's an interesting picture here
never saw that type of headdress, and they are sitting! what's the context of the picture?
please don't get me wrong here, I am not a bean-counter (or am I?? :-[)
my point is that the warriors (superbly sculpted btw) appear in fighting postures
with real war weapons (no traditional Zulu dance with rifles), in War costume, with a shield that in 1879 was not used in a war context
I am pretty sure that the shields are intended to be the slightly smaller 1879 warshields, but for me they are a little bit small
here WF poor comparison, but with the shield the right size
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_UqsRf118B2I/SpWiu8-A8dI/AAAAAAAAErI/WTeKUTSX4FI/s1600-h/P1000834.JPG
imagine you would see napoleonic soldiers with chakos that look like top hats
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I am guessing that the photo is post 1879 judging by the clothing of the white chaps behind...perhaps prior to the 1906 uprising