Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Ehpeaell on 06 June 2021, 04:03:43 AM
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Hi there folks, apologies if I'm posting a well trodden question, but my search-fu has failed me... I'm looking for information on uniforms and organization for the Red Army in the mid to late 20s for some adventures in the back of beyond. I've gotten hooked on some of the Basmachi campaigns in southern Tajikistan in 1928-31, but I can't seem to find anything definitive on what the soviet troops were wearing. Is it dramatically different from the early 20's and the war with Poland?
Any help or pointers greatly appreciated!
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Yes, these are significant differences. During this period, the appearance of the Soviet uniform was closer to the appearance of the period of the Second World War.
What military units do you want to portray (Red Army, GPU (future NKVD), border guards, armored vehicles, police, local militia) and in what period (summer, winter).
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Many thanks!
I'm looking mostly at the border incursions with Afghanistan, so it's pretty much a mix of Red Army Infantry and Cavalry, and some GUPV border troops thrown in for good measure. Season is mostly either spring or summer from the campaigns I've been reading...I'm not sure when they'd have switched out from winter to summer uniforms in that part of the world...
It's also a question of what's available figure-wise too, I guess. I was looking at 28mm just to maintain compatibility with the rest of my stuff, but I'd go smaller for sure if figures were available.
Thanks again!
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I am busy right now. A little later I will give you the information you are interested in on the uniform. Then we will ask our guys for help with the selection of suitable figures.
For now, here is some information on the uniform of the GPU employees (I will restore the disappeared drawings later):
(http://s017.radikal.ru/i417/1501/4f/09a8789bfd96.png)
More details here: http://siberia-miniatures.ru/forum/showthread.php?fid=12&tid=61
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That's fantastic, many thanks again!
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Red Army:
(http://b.radikal.ru/b15/2106/51/791c19ba545b.jpg)
1. Assistant platoon commander in cotton summer uniform. Infantry.
2. The commander of an artillery battery in woolen winter uniform (without the overcoat).
3. A military doctor in a woolen winter officer's uniform (without an overcoat).
4. Red Army soldier - artilleryman in winter uniform.
(http://d.radikal.ru/d14/2106/7c/e92d84338b6f.jpg)
5. 5. Summer cotton shirt (for all ranks).
6. Officer's winter cloth jacket.
7. Cloth jacket for lower ranks.
8. Overcoat for all ranks.
9. Summer cap for all ranks.
10. Cloth helmet for all ranks. Cloth star and straps of color according to the type of troops.
Winter pants in the cavalry - blue.
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(http://a.radikal.ru/a00/2106/3c/05c7790c6efc.jpg)
Stripes on the collar according to the type of troops (top - down, left - right):
1. Infantry (crimson with black piping).
2. Cavalry (blue with black piping)
3. Artillery (black with red piping)
4. Technical troops (engineers, sappers, etc.) (black with blue piping)
5. Aviation (light blue with red piping)
6. Administrative and economic staff (dark green with red piping)
Stripes on the collar on the overcoat: infantry, cavalry, artillery.
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Internal troops (OGPU - NKVD):
The uniforms correspond to the army, but the caps have a blue top and a dark red band. The stripes on the collar of the clothes have the same color.
(http://b.radikal.ru/b13/2106/ad/97f1c356a450.jpg)
The trousers had a dark red edging. The cap also had a crimson edging along the top seam.
(http://ww2.ru/upload/iblock/3a3/dec17_002.jpg)
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(http://forum.ww2.ru/uploads/monthly_06_2010/post-11267-1275914360,9716.jpg)
(http://forum.ww2.ru/uploads/monthly_06_2010/post-11267-1275913742,1963.jpg)
The uniform of the border guards had a cap with a green top and a dark blue (almost black) band. The buttonholes on the collar are green with crimson piping.
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The police could be used as an auxiliary force in the protection of populated areas. Her uniform can be a great decoration for the gaming table.
(http://d.radikal.ru/d41/2106/b1/7931a4f7003b.jpg)
1. Policeman (mounted police) in summer uniform.
2. Winter shirt and cap of the foot police and the administrative staff of the police.
3. Winter shirt and cap of the mounted police.
4. Summer shirt and cap with the insignia of the foot police.
5 - 6. Collar of foot police clothing.
7 - 8. Collar of the clothes of the mounted police.
9. The color of the trousers of the foot police.
10. The color of the trousers of the mounted police.
11. The cap of the mounted police.
12 - 13. Winter hat of the mounted police.
14. Winter hat for foot police.
15. Blazing the uniform of the foot police.
16. Winter uniform of the mounted police.
17. Policeman in winter uniform (foot police).
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By the way, you can equip several OGPU soldiers or border guards with a Thompson submachine gun. In 1924, a batch of these weapons was purchased specifically to combat the Basmachi.
(http://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-10/1477911873_t6.jpg)
(http://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2016-10/1477911833_t7.png)
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Oh that's all brilliant! Many many thanks! Lovely pictures and very clear. I love the idea of fielding some with Thompsons. So much sleeker than Lewis guns...
The police uniforms would also make a nice addition of colour to the table. Have to admit I'm tempted to field a "winter" force just to get that sleek black greatcoat and red cap included.
I can't thank you enough for the help!
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Amazing resources as always, Cuprum. :D
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Thanks Cuprum! This is great information!
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Cuprum,
You are amazing.
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Wonderful detail! ;D
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Cuprum,
You are amazing.
What he said!
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The whole subject is fascinating because it seems Red Army uniforms kept changing bit by bit from the late 20's all the way through to the middle of the war.
I asked Cuprum for help with the mid-to-late 30's uniform a few years ago and by then the Budenovka cap had been phased out, the Pilotka side cap had been phased in, and rank marks or stripes started to appear on the forearms of uniform sleeves for middle and higher ranks.
So painting of Red Army troops can be very very specific to narrow time periods! Of course for gaming purposes you can always fudge things a bit using older figures who may be "late" in recieving new kit (especially out in the Back of Beyond), but only by a couple of years.
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In fact, the uniform changes quite often in some details and, for example, in ten years these differences will already be noticeable in the general image. This is not counting some cardinal one-time changes.
By the way, Budennovka, as a winter headdress, was canceled in 1940, after the Soviet-Finnish war. Then it was replaced by a hat with earflaps. But budenovka continued to be issued from warehouses (mainly to the rear parts) until the stocks in warehouses were exhausted (until 1942).
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Ah, well there you are. Our BoB figures would be a total mess without your help Cuprum! :D
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I'd be curious on what sort of armour was being used in that period. As far as combat vehicle I'd assume that the T-18 Tank would make an appearance (as far as I'm aware it was shelved only after the Sino-Soviet conflict in the early 30s, only to reappear again in WWII). Though perhaps some T-27 tankettes, Renault FTs, or Civil War era armour would have been around? Certainly armoured cars seem to be the mainstay.
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Yes you are right. Here it will be appropriate to use the T-18 (MS-1), the T-27 tankette, and the BA-27 armored car. Armored vehicles of the period of the First World War were hardly suitable for real military operations by this time. Could be used as training.
Tank T-18 in 1941 was used only as a fixed firing point in the fortified areas.
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The Red Army paraded captured Renaults and Mark Vs up to 1930, and they were used in exercises (at least for propaganda purposes) till then too. But that doesn't imply that they could operate in anger.
But other than immediately after the RCW, there's no chance they would be used. Two FT-17s are shown in the Far Eastern Republic forces up to 1922 though.
To me it would be one or the other. If you have T-18s, T27s and BA-27s then you don't have WWI vehicles.
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Perhaps off topic, but is there any information out there on what sorts of armoured vehicles would have been available for the 1934 Soviet Invasion of Xinjiang?
That period seems a bit of a grey area between when earlier vehicles were going out of service, and newer ones had yet to have been developed.
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During the battles of 1933, the "Altai Army" (as the Soviet contingent was called for secrecy purposes) was armed with R-5 aircraft, BA-27 armored vehicles, 76-mm mountain guns and 37-mm Hotchkiss cannons, Maxim and Degtyarev machine guns, Dyakonov's rifle mortars. There were pack (on horse) of shortwave radio stations. The soldiers and commanders were dressed in the uniform of the White Guards.
In 1934, the intensity of the fighting decreased, the situation was considered resolved and the withdrawal of Soviet troops to the territory of the USSR began. They began to transfer heavy weapons and equipment to the Chinese.
But soon the uprising broke out with renewed vigor. In 1937, 15 BT-7A tanks with a short 76-mm cannon were sent to Xinjiang, the same command tank (with a handrail antenna) and a reconnaissance platoon - five light amphibious T-38 tanks. A total of 21 armored vehicles, 78 people. The soldiers were dressed in local civilian robes and hats; the use of Soviet symbols was strictly prohibited.
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That's an interesting little scenario for some games. Thanks.
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Amazing historical tidbit!