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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: OSHIROmodels on 22 June 2021, 01:25:48 PM

Title: African figures
Post by: OSHIROmodels on 22 June 2021, 01:25:48 PM
Are there any available for this period (medieval)? Central rather than northern or southern.

I know it’s painting a broad brush but the actual time frame/date isn’t important, just the location and approximate time line.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: traveller on 22 June 2021, 01:34:24 PM
Would they differ from the standard 19th century spear armed, dressed in loincloth ”Darkest Africa” types? ???
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: OSHIROmodels on 22 June 2021, 03:10:39 PM
No idea  :)

Oh, should mention 28mm for the scale.

Weren’t the Ethiopian troops fairly elaborate?
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Atheling on 22 June 2021, 03:32:38 PM
No idea  :)

Oh, should mention 28mm for the scale.

Weren’t the Ethiopian troops fairly elaborate?

I found this James, though who knows how accurate it is:
https://thelosttreasurechest.wordpress.com/2011/06/01/historical-warrior-illustration-series-part-xll/ethiopian-warrior-of-the-aksumite-empire-in-the-5th-century-ad/ (https://thelosttreasurechest.wordpress.com/2011/06/01/historical-warrior-illustration-series-part-xll/ethiopian-warrior-of-the-aksumite-empire-in-the-5th-century-ad/)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Pan Marek on 22 June 2021, 05:31:11 PM
I found your question interesting, since there were a number of African Empires during the Medieval period, but I've never seen figs for them.  First, the empires:
https://atlantablackstar.com/2013/12/05/7-midieval-african-kingdoms/#:~:text=The%20leading%20civilizations%20of%20this,Kingdoms%20and%20the%20Benin%20Empire.

But my google search reveals no figs.  And a couple of threads searching for them on TMP and the Wargames website.

Good luck!
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Will Bailie on 22 June 2021, 06:08:16 PM
Fascinating project - good luck!

There are a Crusades ranges that include 'Sudanese' infantry, such as Fireforge.  Is that too far north for you?  another possibility to consider is Berbers from El Cid/Reconquista ranges, such as Artizan, Eureka or Gripping Beast, although those are more North African than Central. 
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Thew2 on 22 June 2021, 07:04:58 PM
Irregular do a Kingdom of Benin range, but only in 15mm. 

I have previously used Perry plastic Sudanese converted with bow hands, to make into African archers for this time frame (but not painted them, as yet!). 

There are images in the Osprey book on The Moors that might be useful if you can track that one down. I think there are also some images of medieval African soldiers in one of the Ian Heath WRG books.

Muslim cavalry in quilted armour and/or barding, maybe with foundry copplestone African head swops,  would be good for many of the medieval sub Saharan kingdoms in Niger, Nigeria etc. I've not tracked any suitable figures for these down as yet.

Good luck!
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: OSHIROmodels on 22 June 2021, 07:17:02 PM
Many thanks for the replies chaps.

The image Athling posted is the closest to what I had in mind. Now for the bad news, it's for a little fantasy project that's been on the back burner for a while but I thought this board would be best as I want the figures to be fairly realistic.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Atheling on 22 June 2021, 07:22:58 PM
Many thanks for the replies chaps.

The image Athling posted is the closest to what I had in mind. Now for the bad news, it's for a little fantasy project that's been on the back burner for a while but I thought this board would be best as I want the figures to be fairly realistic.

Fair do's :)

Looking forward to seeing what you do James.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Will Bailie on 22 June 2021, 07:27:18 PM
Artizan Designs has 'African Spearmen' who are a little similar to the image Athling shared:
(https://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img1159.jpg)
(https://www.artizandesigns.com/images/img1160.jpg)
https://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1159
https://www.artizandesigns.com/prod.php?prod=1160

In Perry Miniature's Sudan range, esp since you are looking at a fantasy project, there are some neat gems.  Like these commanders in mail on horses with quilted barding:
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/sa-15.jpg)
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/sa15-mounted-armoured-command-one-armoured-emir-one-armoured-army-standard-bearer-and-one-unarmoured-religious-leader/

Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Diablo Jon on 22 June 2021, 08:56:37 PM
One thing I found from doing my colonial Darkest Africa project is that before the 19th century there is very little info on the peoples of central Africa. Their own histories were oral and by the time anyone wrote them down, they were more like folktales or legends, and very difficult to decipher into a proper history. The Kingdom of Kongo from the 16th century seems quite well documented thanks to extensive contact with Portuguese.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary I'd use Darkest Africa natives from Foundry.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: mithril on 23 June 2021, 01:57:46 AM
Ethiopia at least has some potential for unique figures..

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l27zjnEIzH1qb9obio1_1280.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/92/1f/18/921f186d9a018cf9eb702979b72c6beb.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/30/c2/82/30c2827cc44acfe20a14772b51861952.jpg)

since they were remote from europe and isolated some from the cultural influence of the Muslim empires by their location and religion, they had their own style.

most of these are from more recent periods but it wouldn't be hard to work backwards a couple centuries
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: OSHIROmodels on 23 June 2021, 07:07:35 AM
Thanks for the continued input, those images are great  8)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Amsivar on 23 June 2021, 07:16:06 AM
Fascinating subject  :-*

Read a book on the African middle ages some years ago, which sparked an interest in the Songhay empire: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691181264/the-golden-rhinoceros. Not much information regarding military matters or pictures though.
A google search for "songhay warrior" or "Mali empire" will yield some good images, as will "Benin warrior", bringing up many photos of Benin bronzes.

The only miniatures I found was a range of West Sudanese from Khurasan: https://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/west-sudanese.html. Sadly, they are 15mm, but the pictures may be inspirational.

So my idea for 28mm was to use something like Byzantine kataphraktoi with quited overcoats / bardings (e.g. Essex https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0157/3412/products/gal_ab2_large.jpg?v=1571439839) or moorish black guard with cowhide shields (e.g. Footsore https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0657/9717/products/03ARB101_b8e2c997-6e9e-4f2b-bf69-d31eed09a6c3.gif?v=1571438764), the already mentioned Perry Sudanese and generic Darkest Africa miniatures (spear and shield, loincloth and Tuareg-like headdress) and lots of green stuff.

Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Diablo Jon on 23 June 2021, 07:20:20 AM
I don't think the Abyssinian warriors looked liked that in the medieval period though. When I was looking for info on a Portuguese in East Africa project, I had in my mind, Im sure I read that trousers didn't really come into use until the 18th century. For earlier Abyssinian you might be better taking a look at Copplestone Somali's or kit bashing Perry Beja.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Diablo Jon on 23 June 2021, 07:30:12 AM
Northstar were selling these Western Sudanese mounted warriors a little while ago as part of their Death in the Dark continent special. I'm still kicking myself I didn't get any, by the time I returned on payday, they weren't for sale anymore  :'(

(http://nstarmagazine.com/africa_12_htm_files/6921.png)

nice little article from Northstar on western sudan even though its aimed at 19th century colonial gaming I'm not sure much had changed  since the medieval period in that part of the world.

http://nstarmagazine.com/africa_12.htm  (http://nstarmagazine.com/africa_12.htm)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Tim Haslam on 23 June 2021, 07:36:57 AM
I’ve used Copplestone Sudanese in the past, even for ancient armies.
Er obviously not the ones with rifles!
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: traveller on 23 June 2021, 07:45:43 AM
Northstar were selling these Western Sudanese mounted warriors a little while ago as part of their Death in the Dark continent special. I'm still kicking myself I didn't get any, by the time I returned on payday, they weren't for sale anymore  :'(

(http://nstarmagazine.com/africa_12_htm_files/6921.png)

nice little article from Northstar on western sudan even though its aimed at 19th century colonial gaming I'm not sure much had changed  since the medieval period in that part of the world.

http://nstarmagazine.com/africa_12.htm  (http://nstarmagazine.com/africa_12.htm)

Irregular miniatures also have some western Sudan stuff that looks better than their average sculpting quality:

(https://i.postimg.cc/zGdk0rFG/C5-F4-E4-CB-92-E2-4-A1-B-B649-F6792-C018-E57.png) (https://postimg.cc/5XCv2Drh)

https://irregularminiatures.co.uk/index.html
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Atheling on 23 June 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I could have sword that the North Star Armoured Cavalry were from the Casting Room Foundry ranges but cannot find them anywhere? Have a gone (more) nuts? Or just made a schoolboy error  ???
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Plynkes on 23 June 2021, 09:32:05 AM
I don't believe so, Atheling. Don't recall Casting Room having anything to do with it. My unreliable memory tells me they were a North Star one-off. North Star Nick would know for sure.


Some lovely pics and figures suggested here, but I haven't seen anything that looks like it came from central Africa, which I think is what the OP was after. I suppose those Knights of the Savannah types could be thought of as such, but they really don't come from what I consider central Africa. Don't have any better ideas, mind.





Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Diablo Jon on 23 June 2021, 09:46:13 AM
I don't believe so, Atheling. Don't recall Casting Room having anything to do with it. My unreliable memory tells me they were a North Star one-off. North Star Nick would know for sure.


Some lovely pics and figures suggested here, but I haven't seen anything that looks like it came from central Africa, which I think is what the OP was after. I suppose those Knights of the Savannah types could be thought of as such, but they really don't come from what I consider central Africa. Don't have any better ideas, mind.

Yeah I think Mark Copplestone sculpted for Northstar as a special  to give away with DitDC.

As far North/central/ south that's always a thorny issue no matter what country/ continent you live on. For example as  a born and bread south coast  lad  I consider anyone north of Winchester to be a northerner  lol
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Plynkes on 23 June 2021, 10:28:05 AM
Eeeee, I'll fetch me whippet, then, lad.


Can't remember who sculpted them, but I don't think it was Mark Copplestone. I have a few, and they don't seem like his style.






Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Atheling on 23 June 2021, 11:36:25 AM
Eeeee, I'll fetch me whippet, then, lad.


Can't remember who sculpted them, but I don't think it was Mark Copplestone. I have a few, and they don't seem like his style.

To my eyes they have a Robi Baker look to them  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Diablo Jon on 23 June 2021, 12:31:47 PM
To my eyes they have a Robi Baker look to them  ??? ??? ???
Eeeee, I'll fetch me whippet, then, lad.


Can't remember who sculpted them, but I don't think it was Mark Copplestone. I have a few, and they don't seem like his style.

Apparently ( according to the link below) they were a private commission for Kevin Dallimore doesn't say who the sculptor was.

 http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2017/02/northstar-miniatures-death-in-dark.html?m=1   (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2017/02/northstar-miniatures-death-in-dark.html?m=1)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: bigredbat on 23 June 2021, 01:56:11 PM
Loving the African Knights!  Need some.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Atheling on 23 June 2021, 02:39:50 PM
Apparently ( according to the link below) they were a private commission for Kevin Dallimore doesn't say who the sculptor was.

 http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2017/02/northstar-miniatures-death-in-dark.html?m=1   (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2017/02/northstar-miniatures-death-in-dark.html?m=1)

I painted a lot of Robi's sculpts for Gripping Beast back in the day and these really have the Robi Baker look, at least to my eyes.

It would be interesting to find out if I'm right  ???
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Ogrob on 23 June 2021, 03:07:22 PM
You can certainly do a lot with Perry's Ansar if it's for a fantasy project. With the lack of sources you are never going to be super accurate anyway.

Here's a Frostgrave warband I did earlier with them:
(https://i.imgur.com/Jkvaa2d.jpg)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: aircav on 23 June 2021, 03:52:29 PM
I painted a lot of Robi's sculpts for Gripping Beast back in the day and these really have the Robi Baker look, at least to my eyes.

It would be interesting to find out if I'm right  ???

The hands don't look big enough for Robi Baker  ;)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Atheling on 23 June 2021, 04:17:02 PM
The hands don't look big enough for Robi Baker  ;)

Might be his brother then? ;) :)
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Pan Marek on 23 June 2021, 05:43:47 PM
Google this: "horsemen, mali empire, images".  Amazing what comes up.

As far as the West African empires/kingdoms are concerned, they did not rely
on oral tradition.   They used Arabic script, and it was during the Mali Empire
that the great library of Timbuktu (with attendant university) was founded.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Cyrus the Great on 24 June 2021, 05:03:56 AM
No one has mentioned the excellent range offered by Castaway Arts, so I will.

https://www.castawayarts.com.au/index.php?cmd=store
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Cyrus the Great on 24 June 2021, 05:06:54 AM
Look under Western Sudan/ Sub Sahara.
Title: Re: African figures
Post by: Plynkes on 24 June 2021, 08:21:25 AM
I don't think the Abyssinian warriors looked liked that in the medieval period though. When I was looking for info on a Portuguese in East Africa project, I had in my mind, Im sure I read that trousers didn't really come into use until the 18th century. For earlier Abyssinian you might be better taking a look at Copplestone Somali's or kit bashing Perry Beja.

I agree about that. Ethiopians from a colonial range will be dressed in fashions that are much too recent, not to mention that you'd have to weed out all the figures with guns.