Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pulp => Triumph & Tragedy => Topic started by: James Morris on September 11, 2009, 09:06:16 PM
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Having bought the rules and SCW supplement at Partizan, I played my first game of T&T last night with my group. Overall, it got a very positive response. The card-based turn was very popular - enough uncertainty without producing a really frustrating game like some other card-driven systems. D10 shooting was pretty straightforward; the LMG modifier at short range was pretty deadly. We used minimal characters and special rules and will certainly be trying some more of these out in future.
Some units seemed to accumulate a huge amount of surpression hits - one unit received 13 and was still active. Were we playing this right?
I enjoyed reading the SCW supplement. The sample forces were particularly useful, especially to see how troops that we were quite familiar with were portrayed in T&T. Given that T&T is very much aimed at scenarios, I think it would be important to see some sample scenarios in future supplements. I was also very surprised to see a completely blank page at the back of the book; I appreciate the effort that has gone into the production, but I'm sure that something of interest involving the SCW or T&T could have gone here!
But anyway, very pleased overall, liked the character and humour of the rules, and looking forward to playing more in the future.
Cheers!
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Some units seemed to accumulate a huge amount of surpression hits - one unit received 13 and was still active. Were we playing this right?
Basically, it´s possible, as long as the unit passes the Morale checks required when it activates and has accumulated more Suppression markers than there are models in the unit. 13 does sound a bit extreme, though, so there might have been an omission or oversight somewhere.
Given that T&T is very much aimed at scenarios, I think it would be important to see some sample scenarios in future supplements.
This is a good suggestion. We already have a Scenario Pack up for download on our page (nothing specifically SCW, but "Red Cattle Rustlers" could also be adapted for any setting). Personally, I am not too fond of doing "official stuff" since that reeks a bit of organised fun akin to a certain market leader´s approach, and we usually make up our scenarios on the spot, but I´ve also toyed with the idea of making up a "scenario generator" thingie. It appears there would indeed be interest in that (probably free in a basic version, and a more detailed one in a later supplement).
I was also very surprised to see a completely blank page at the back of the book; I appreciate the effort that has gone into the production, but I'm sure that something of interest involving the SCW or T&T could have gone here!
I just checked and am rather surprised myself - apparently, I miscalculated the required/available pages somehow before sending the files off to Björn for printing. Feel free to use it for notes and stuff, if you like... ;)
But anyway, very pleased overall, liked the character and humour of the rules, and looking forward to playing more in the future
Glad you liked them and had fun!
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I´ve also toyed with the idea of making up a "scenario generator" thingie. It appears there would indeed be interest in that (probably free in a basic version, and a more detailed one in a later supplement).
Excellent idea!
I'm sure that would be very popular and useful. I'd certainly like one :D
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Thanks for posting us your feedback and thanks for playing T+T. Iam glad you enjoyed the rules.
I guess you hold the record in supression markers. 13 is a huge number. As Chris said you must check morale before activating a unit and pls. dont forget to add the -1 suppr. modifier for close as well as ranged combat to every figure in the unit. I presume there were not more than 13 figures left ;)
Iam currently writing the Colonial Supplement and I hope there is enough space for one or two scenarios.
Cheers
Björn
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I really like the way that as the suppressions pile up the unit gradually becomes less and less effective. It's a really good rule.
But we have noticed that it is quite hard to rout units, or stop a charge with gunfire in T&T. It seems very easy to shake off suppressions and pins (a lot easier than piling them up - all that shooting to make them get their heads down and then Poof! - They've recovered and you are back to Square One). In our games units almost always seem to fight to the last man and then get wiped out. Rarely do they break permanently and leg it off the board. It doesn't alter the fun of the game, but on the other hand isn't very realistic. Maybe our players are just lucky die-rollers. It could also be that we have misunderstood something and are playing it wrong, or we just haven't played enough games to get a fair view of that part of the system. ???
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This is interesting.
The fight to the last man happens in our games only when a hero is attached to a unit.
Usually raw and regular units break pretty fast in close combat or are pinned when they have to test morale on long range fire.
I dont like rules very much were units always fight to the last men, so lets investigate this please Plynkes :)
I was thinking of adding specific modifiers to the morale score check.
I know the problem with the stopping fire on larger units ( +12 figures ) . Especially in colonial games. As you know we are working on a volley fire rule which can be found in the colonial supplement. We modified this rule a bit. All misses can be rerolled. That solved the problem. Grimm, Green Knight, Doomhippie and me tested this one whole afternoon.
In my eyes Recovery Actions will cost a player one round of gameplay. And I´ve seen it often that those recovery actions to remove suppression failed... So its not that easy...You are probably good dice rollers :)
Cheers and thanks
Björn
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I'm really looking forward to sseing the new rules Bjoern spoke of. A a playtester for the colonial rules I was rather shocked to see that a firing line of British soldiers with roughly the same points as the attacking Zulus was alwys slaughtered, even in the best of circumstances (initiative, no cover for the attacker etc.). This experience lead to a lot of thinking and we will see the result hopefully soon.
This might seem to be a problem with T&T: if two vastly different approaches to fighting clash (close combat vs ranged combat), close combat seems to hold the upper hand. Okay, not if I am playing, since even when charging with bayonetts and everything pointing in my favor I usually get wiped out or, even more humiliating, my veterans have a tendency to give up after one round of combat.
However, my rolling of dice cannot be taken as average (I remember the typical incidents in a 40k match, were I mananaged to roll 42 dice nedding a 4 to hit and ending up with one hit...). So maybe it is mor my personal problem... ;)
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I definitely think I have been too hasty in some of my comments there, Björn. It's just a couple of incidents that stick in my mind. In one a large unit of natives attacked a small unit and a hero in hand-to-hand. The combat was very bloody, and swung each way quite a bit, but no matter what happened, nobody's nerve broke (all tests were passed). The fight carried on until we had one man surrounded by a huge pile of bodies. It was like something from Monty Python. We all enjoyed it and thought it fun, but something didn't seem quite right. Lucky rolling indeed.
And we seemed to get the impression it was a bit too easy to shake off suppressions, much easier than causing them. But of course, you are right in that you have to waste a turn's worth of activity to do it. That is a good point.
But I really haven't played enough games yet to form a true opinion, we have only played three or four games so far. I think we should play a few more before I open my gob any more. ;) Reminds me I must get our lads gaming again. It seems forever since we had a game night. Rest assured, I consider T&T to be a permanent part of our gaming scene. It's too much fun not to carry on with it.
Zulu is on the telly right now, and it is inspiring me to go and do some more work on my Ngoni. They've joined the Maji-Maji and are looking for a mission station full of fat German preachers to attack. :)
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@Doomhippie
Dont spoil it son ;)
In the testgames we always fought until death to see how ballancing works. We should not forget that you can retreat if you succeed your morale check. But anyway... I believe we get it done !
@Plynkes
Funny ! Iam basing British Zulu Forces all afternoon and listening to the football games.
on radio. Maybe I should switch on Zulu too. I probably get some figures painted as well....
Cheers
Björn
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Zulu is on the telly right now...
Bugger! Missed it again >:(
Must buy the DVD lol
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And I read a Richard Sharp novel last night.
"Bugger" fits here as well. Oh what a weekend full of similarities. ;)
Cheers
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Sounds like we had a record with 13 supressions on one unit, I am glad to hear that! It was a unit of Veteran Moorish Regulares who just kept passing the Morale Tests on a roll of 6+ (Score 7 but +1 Morale for Veteran). Eventually, having been reduced to 2 models, they were gunned down after failing to reach the International Brigade in a suicidal charge.
It surprised me that there wasn't a negative morale modifier for the unit being reduced to a fraction of its original size, unless I missed something. One of my group suggested that if the supression markers were double the number of surviving models, perhaps it should be automatically pinned or just removed fleeing from the table. Anyway, it sounds like a fluke, and probably won't happen again!
How do other players record supression markers? I have casualties on 40mm bases for pinned units, but I feel I'd need quite a few smaller counters for supressions. I've seen rocks used, any other ideas?
As regards scenarios, I don't feel publishing something that you've spent time thinking up is exactly detrimental to the gaming experience. It's just my experience that many gamers have limited time and like to be able to 'pick up and play', without necessarily writing their own scenario from scratch. That's why sample army rosters with pictures are always popular, they inspire gamers to get started, even if they don't collect exactly 'that' army. Being able to read the nicely-illustrated battle reports on the T&T website gave me enough information to persuade me to buy the rules, for example. I'm really glad that scenarios are planned for future supplements.
Cheers,
James
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And I forgot to say, thank you to you all for the quick and informed responses. It's great that T&T is so well-supported.
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I use stones based on a coin. From 1 to 3 stones !
I saw a guy using small bases with sculpted shell casing. That looked nice.
For morale :
Dont forget to check morale every time you want to activate a unit with more markers than soldiers.
Raw or Trained Units break much faster.
Leaders often make the difference.
Anyway... keep us informed about your experience. :)
regards
Björn
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one of the good things on T&T is that you can easy change the rules without wasting the game play .
If you want more units rout whay not use the -1 suppr. modifier for moral test also ?
That will make more units fail the test and rout but with a -1 it will not change the game to much .
Grimm
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I agree with Grimm. I've hardly ever encountered a game where you could come up with suitable ad hoc rules like you can with T&T. It really is a comfortable game to play, watch and be witty about...
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For morale :
Dont forget to check morale every time you want to activate a unit with more markers than soldiers.
I did not realise that was the rule. As far as I can see it is not explicitly stated that way in the book. We had been testing just once, at the time when the unit accrues more suppressions than the number of men. That certainly alters things a bit. :)
If you don't mind I'd like to ask a question about vehicles and planes. We haven't used them before but probably will do soon. Do the suppression-pinning rules work exactly the same way for vehicles as for units of people? When the suppressions rack up to more than the crew of the vehicle they have to test or be pinned? Also are planes subject to any kind of morale? Obviously if pinned they aren't going to hang there "pinned down" in the sky, but how do you work it? Do planes get suppressed? Can they be routed in any way? Or do they ignore morale altogeher?
Thanks!
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Plynkes !
As a T+T player of the early stages I presume you own the first edition.
This rule is explained in the 2nd edition. I can send it to you if you like.
I missed it to point at this important rule clearly in the first edition.
Planes can not be pinned. They are more a deadly encounter.
The vehicles rule work as you described them. But again we didnt work that out clearly. I will do this soon on new rules updates on the website.
Crewmembers can pile up SM when they fail the scoretest they must bail out.
Sorry for not making this clear. It just did not happen very often during our testgames.
Cheers
Björn
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Thanks, mate. That all sounds good to me.