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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: racm32 on July 04, 2021, 03:47:48 AM
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So I recently decided to expand my 28mm Anglo-Saxon army for Saga to be able to play large games of Hail Ceasar and the like. I just finished assembling the last unit and this has brought the army up to 231 miniatures. 90 of which are already painted. Now I'm looking at the huge ay before and realizing I need to improve my speed/batch painting skills. I'd love to hear the different tricks, tips, and techniques you all use.
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For me No1 is citadel contrast paint or similar paint style with army painter inks, much faster.
Colour blocking, stain instead of black-lining etc and use minimal layers and drybrushing.
My biggest change now I am in my 50`s is when i think its good enough, thats it, I stop.
Not much help there sorry ;)
Good luck
Glen
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I'm not a good painter. A fairly horrible one actually. But I do manage to maintain some speed when going about things. Which leads to a few ideas to build up this speed:
1) plan it out. I always try to think of the most efficient order to paint things, based on where corrections will be needed, ease of reaching certain parts, and which colours work best over others.
2) do all things of one colour at a time. Even if it's for a hundred figures. It might seem like it doesn't get results for a long time, but in the end, it saves quite a lot of time.
3) put on something in the background while you're painting. I like to have something to listen to because it makes me feel more relaxed and makes me less aware of the time.
4) and while painting the large batches, have something in between each batch. A different figure that's more challenging, grabbing a cup of tea. That helps against potential boredom.
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Have a look at Marco's method - it looks amazing and is fairly fast although he is going for high quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBc0ZuaYIPM&t=945s
In short he does a zenithal highlight, blocks colours using contrast or an airbrush and then a wash with oil paints, much of which is rubbed off for highlights.
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Assemble, paint and base one unit at a time don't assembly the whole army first and then be confronted by a horde of miniatures you have to paint...err ok to late on that one lol
I find splitting the painting of the main units, in the army, with other stuff helps. So I might paint a big unit of say 24 spearman than reward myself with something fun like a command base. Then another unit of spearmen and then perhaps a baggage camp piece and so on. Probably not really applicable to a Saxon army but things like painting a unit of cavalry after a unit of infantry also helps to keep things interesting.
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Use a bigger brush
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My things would be to figure out how big a batch you can tolerate at a time. For me the upper limit is around 20.
Minimize steps. If you can block out a bunch of colours and then wash them all the same dark brown wash for example, it will be a lot quicker than painting one colour, shading and highlighting that, and then doing the next and so on.
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One quick method is to undercoat black (Pebeo gesso is great - much quicker than spray to use and much quicker to dry), and then drybrush grey and white. Paint in the metallics with natural steel (or whatever), then use washes or contrast paints to 'tint' the drybrushed areas with greens, browns and other clothing colours (and wash the metal areas with brown, black or blue, depending on the look you're going for). You can then paint the faces and hands and any other areas of flesh more conventionally (e.g. 'flesh' paint, wash, highlight up again).
This technique means that you're focusing all your efforts on the faces and allowing the texture of the miniature and the wash/contrast paints to do the work on the other bits.
I did these skaven this way; it leads to quite dull colours on the clothes, but that creates a good contrast with the faces, etc.. And it's really quick.
Edit: a step-by-step tutorial of sorts starts here (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=77384.msg1268280#msg1268280).
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I undercoat in Vallejo ghost grey and black wash with GW Nuln Oil.
I use Foundry triads so the highlight shades are already mixed. That said you need to try them out as sometimes the highlight doesn’t seem much brighter than the base colour.
For black I just block in mid grey and black wash until black enough.
For armour I block in silver and black wash over the top.
For flesh I block in bright flesh tone and then go over with a flesh wash.
I block in the base colours and just use one or occasionally a further highlight shade. The highlight shade also is used to correct any mistakes with the base shade.
I do 6 - 8 figures in a batch as more than this seems monotonous. It is probably more efficient to do larger numbers if you can stand it. I have know friends do 24s and 48s or even whole armies of over 100 as works in progress.
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Use a bigger brush
This
And focus on the bits that matter, rather than trying to paint all the little hard to reach bits. As said above contrast paints, pre-shading and washes all help with volume.
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I'm a traditional block painter, undercoating in black enamel, but painting most colours in acrylic.
I always do it in this order - overall coat colour or body armour colour; pants; packs; belts and boots; hats/helmets; facing colours/plumes etc; weapons; blades; flesh. Any dry brushing if needed, although I don't normally for figures.
In 6-15mm I paint by the unit generally, most are around 24-40 figures in the smaller scales.
For 28mm I have found I can paint about 16-18 figures in one go, if they are the same uniform. For ancients most had no uniforms, so it becomes a bit more difficult - so I pick a set of typical colours, eg greys, browns, sand-light tans, or dyed colours such as greens. blues, reds, purples, yellow, whatever takes your fancy, and split however many paint shades you have in that group between the figures you have.
So if I'm doing a block of ancients in mostly grey clothing, and I've got three shades of grey, I'll take those 18x 28mm figures and do 6 in each shade. But after leaving them to try for a few minutes, I'd do the trousers in alternate shades, or do some in light browns. Once you've done a set of irregular looking clothing, most of the accruements (eg scabbards, belts, boots, spear shafts, blades) are the same colour across all of the figures, so you can then revert to doing all 18 at once.
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One trick for irregulars in batches. Pick a colour and paint the first guy’s tunic, then the next guy’s trousers, the next one’s cloak, skip the next one. repeat in different combos with the next colour. It ties the figures together but makes them look not too uniform. I’d limit batch sizes to 12 or so
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When painting armies like yours I generally, like you, assemble large portions of the force. place them in "tribal units" each of a mix of various troop types - armoured, unarmoured, shielded, unshielded, skirmishers, cavalry and separate out the leaders and characters. Undercoat in white. Select a colour theme for each tribe - say seasons - spring (tints of yellow, green, etc), summer (bright greens, blues, reds etc), autumn (shades of browns, orange, ochre, deep reds etc) and winter (lighter tints of blues, pale greens, greys etc) others use natural earthy colours or whatever theme takes my fancy.
I then stand the units in ranks equal in number to the colours chosen. Paint the flesh on everyone. Paint armour on those who have it. Starting rear left paint jacket, next chap paint trousers, next rank miss one figure so second gets jacket, next trousers and so on for two in each rank. Then next colour until all figures have one colour on them, Then reverse and start back right and work along the ranks again. Paint weapons, belts, leather, helmets etc to taste then paint shields and add decals or hand paint motifs/patterns.
All figures are washed with a varying mix of brown and black. When dry a bit of dry brushing to bring out details.
Leaders, characters and command groups get brighter colours.
Sounds complex but this way I have painted armies quickly to my standard. I am almost 70 so satisfactory is good enough.
(https://i.imgur.com/AHbUugC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HORSr2g.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TOzjsq5.jpg)
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Thank you everyone for the great tips and tricks. I will be testing several of them over the coming weeks.
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Forget speed. Just make a rule that you must do something every day.
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My method is the same for everything basically-
- White spray undercoat
- Paint basic colours
- GW Agrax Earthshade wash
- Highlight face
- Matt acrylic varnish spray
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Using oils for washes instead of fast-drying acrylic washes/inks. The clean-up step goes faster.
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I find speed painting achieves the opposite for me. Anything bigger than 8 figures in one batch becomes a chore for me so my enthusiasm drops and it takes for ever. I have found that four figures in one go is my perfect number for getting stuff done quickly. I think the feeling of getting four figures completed is the drive to do another four etc etc.
Bigger batches also drops my quality control but well done to everybody who can mass produce. Its beyond me lol
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Depends on which miniatures you're painting but I paint my lotr orcs
- Black undercoat
- Dark Grey/ Dark Brown basecoat
- Pick out other block colors and metals
- Wash Army Painter Strong Tone
Often in batches of 24 miniatures but in overall groups of roughly 100.
Note, going for quantity and not quality but they suffice for me.
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I find speed painting achieves the opposite for me. Anything bigger than 8 figures in one batch becomes a chore for me so my enthusiasm drops and it takes for ever. I have found that four figures in one go is my perfect number for getting stuff done quickly. I think the feeling of getting four figures completed is the drive to do another four etc etc.
Bigger batches also drops my quality control but well done to everybody who can mass produce. Its beyond me lol
Just like myself. I like to paint 5-er batches, can make 10-er too, but more than that is a pain for me.
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Gotta agree with the "stick to small batches". You're still speed painting in whatever method you choose, but do an amount that doesn't drive you nuts. I frequently try to tell new gamers the worst thing they can do is assemble hundreds of models, glue them together and then set them on the desk in front of you while you're painting. That will destroy your spirit.
Open a box...assemble...paint. Open a box...assemble...paint. Keep all of your projects to small, feasible builds. Build in batches of 3,5,6, etc. You won't be any faster if you start trying to paint 20 guys at the same time but it annoys your or pisses you off, or scares you away from the painting desk.
Instead...built and paint five guys at a time. Then you're motivated to do the next five. You can even sit the five finished guys in front of you. As far as "speed"....
- Colour spray primers for the base coats, particularly if they're wearing armour or predominantly one colour.
- Washes, inks, dips, etc.
- Don't paint eyeballs. 99% of the time you won't see them...or you'll screw them up. It's not noticeable and washes will outline them anyway.
- For basing use something simple like Vallejo muds or grass tufts, etc. Simple and easy ways to give them a little sprucing up.
- If you're churning out basic infantry...limit your colour palette to 8-10 colours, the real ones you need. That's plenty.
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Gotta agree with the "stick to small batches". You're still speed painting in whatever method you choose, but do an amount that doesn't drive you nuts. I frequently try to tell new gamers the worst thing they can do is assemble hundreds of models, glue them together and then set them on the desk in front of you while you're painting. That will destroy your spirit.
These are excellent points. One psychological 'hack' that works well is to set yourself game-related goals along the way. So, if you're building an army, do it by creating a succession of warbands for skirmish games or RPGs. Then you can use the fruits of your labours on the table long before the whole army is complete, which helps keep motivation going.
So with your Anglo-Saxons, you could think about creating an opposing warband for what you already have in Saga, or perhaps sets of opposing warbands for Song of Arthur and Merlin or equivalent.
One more speed-painting technique - and a very fast one: black undercoat, block colours for everything, then drybrush the entire model in Vallejo silver-grey. Then paint in the metals and slop appropriate washes over everything before tidying up. You can get away with using Agrax Earthshade for everything except flesh. And you can refine the skin tones at the final stage.
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The great thing about lion rampant is that all units are 6s or 12s so not to onerous to churn out.
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Unfortunately i have already assembled the full army. The initial force was for SAGA and already painted, the rest are to bring it up to 3 Divisions for Hail Ceasar. Taking some of your advice in mind I have decided to focus on 1 Division at a time (4 units of 16 plus 1 or 2 units of Skirmishers) and then further focus on just one unit from that Division at a time.
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Forget speed. Just make a rule that you must do something every day.
I personally set myself a weekly quotum, because daily tasks become difficult. After all, I do need my time with my partner for instance.
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The process that I find works best for large numbers of minis that sit in units is:
- undercoating in a dark grey (black is too harsh/dark for realistic shadows)
- then block painting the areas of clothing that can be seen in a slightly brighter than 'normal' base colour (even better if your minis are wearing mail!)
- wash with a brown wash for clothes, black for mail, and a pink wash for skin
- Only on really easy to see parts (faces, hands, backs and head dresses, etc) add a highlight of the original colour
- Then go in and add a third much more careful highlight on the faces. It is the main part of the mini that people look at after the shields so worth spending time on.
- Paint/get a transfer for the shields
I tend to paint in batches of about 8-12 minis. A good podcast is essential to keep the mind focused!