Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Bloggard on August 10, 2021, 08:05:47 PM
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howdy,
(* I've changed the thread title from referring specifically to FFoL, as quite a few sets have been mentioned through the course of the thread).
this could go on a number of boards, but I'll try here first:
I've got into putting a collection of Warmachine / Hordes figures together - I love the visual 'schtick', and think they're wonderful ranges overall ...
I did try the official rules (mk3) a few years back with a pal; we weren't overly enthused, although to be fair this was a pretty superficial experience ...
But they do seem to be a bit extended / chess-clubby for my taste - and certainly the main 'competitive' Steam-roller strand is not what I'm after.
I've searched for alternative rules to use with the figures, and while not a lot comes up, SAGA age of Magic is mentioned, as well as a song of blades and heroes and even Warlords of Erehwon.
A little while I ago I had a number of hard-copy FFOL (fistful of lead) rulebooks and supplements - and from memory I'm thinking that a combination of them (perhaps the core-rules with 'Wasteland' and 'Galactic..') would allow me to tool up stats with enough variation for the different kind of automatons and humanoid figures available from the ranges in question ... ?
*I should add that I want to use a decent range of figures / units from the ranges, so am also assuming I'd need FFOL 'bigger battles' - which is a supplement I've not bought previously.
So - was wondering if anyone here has an opinion / experience in this regard?
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You may want to use their Bigger Battles rule book as it is designed for larger battles. In addition, Wiley Games will be releasing a three volume set for medieval, magic, and monsters in a couple of weeks or so. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWmIWqc6CdH_2fW5lNqNvGw (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWmIWqc6CdH_2fW5lNqNvGw)
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As FFoL is pretty generic as a rule set, you will have to do some work to stat up the various troops types using the 3 FFoL skill levels and the many special rules.
Bigger Battles takes the standard 5 figures-a-side FFoL to be unit based, with units of around 10 figures. I’ve had one test game of this using some fantasy figures and struggled a bit to stat up units so they behaved as I expected them to from the figures. So perhaps get a few units statted up and have a quick play though to ensure that the way you have designed them works for how they are expected to behave?
I too am looking forward to the fantasy set of supplements that are due out this month. (On having a quick check, they are due end of Sept - not sure if the date has slipped, or I miss-remembered)
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I too am looking forward to the fantasy set of supplements that are due out this month. (On having a quick check, they are due end of Sept - not sure if the date has slipped, or I miss-remembered)
The last mention I saw was from Oshirio (UK agent) & said,
'End of August'.
I too eagerly await them. :P
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thanks for the replies, gents.
not sure the fantasy set are that relevant for what I have in mind, although I guess the spells might be useful (otherwise, is it the Gothic set that provides for those only - I had the h/copy of that, and wasteland, but can't remember?).
Presentation of the fantasy rules is lovely tho'.
Thinking about it, Warmahordes gets close to zero comment on these boards, so it's probably a bit too obscure an enquiry - although I know the owner / writer of FFOL frequents here - any opinion, Jaye, if you see this?
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Thinking about it, Warmahordes gets close to zero comment on these boards, so it's probably a bit too obscure an enquiry - although I know the owner / writer of FFOL frequents here - any opinion, Jaye, if you see this?
While Warmahordes has never been much discussed on LAF AFAIK, the whole Privateer fan community seems to be much-faded these days and continues to shrink. Several of the sites and content creators I used to follow for news (mostly out of curiosity, haven't played since 2nd) have shut down or moved on, and the local stores have dropped Privateer altogether due to poor sales. The pandemic was extremely hard on a a game system whose player base was so heavily invested in tournament play, and some of the other changes in the new edition, the advancing storyline, and the company's relationship with stores and retailers haven't helped any either.
That said, I don't see why you couldn't use their figs with other design-your-own-figs rule sets. There's enough aesthetic variation in their ranges to include something for almost any taste. Don't think I'd try to emulate the performance/rules of given figs in Warmahordes outside of the game, though. Just decide what you want the model to do based on looks and go from there. There's also some real proxy potential - there's a local 40K player who uses a bunch of teh Cryx stuff and some other warjacks for an Adeptus Mechanicus army of his, and there's a Tyranid army full of Everblight beasties.
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yes, Rich, I see what you're saying about PP echoed most places online these days.
I understand the 'brawlmachine' variant is developing a degree of traction and ironically there's some current GW controversy / drama that's seeing a few jump ship to warmahordes, apparently.
But ...certainly, the retail situation in the UK is being reported as dire (there's a recent reddit post on the subject).
Although the 'big' shops here have a decent array of models on the shelf, and claim everything will be restocked in due course, perhaps that wont turn out to be the case and PP will effectively go to direct sales (not great this side of the pond for all the obvious reasons).
But I'd love for that not to be the case: I have nothing invested in the game 'emotionally' / historically or whatever,
but, rather like what happened with Rackham, they're marvellous figures, and it would be a great shame for them to disappear from the market-place.
Stylistically the factions in warmahordes were done with great flair and distinction - literally. And very much in contrast to PP's latest attempt 'warcaster' where, although very good, the figures look very much like a fair few other ranges out there.
Anyhow ... as you say: I may look at using FFOL to toolkit my own rules for the figures.
I picked up 'bigger battles' (PDF) from WV today, and the Glalactic Heroes codex - although that turned out to be ready-rolled 'examples', but helpful all the same.
It's just I suspect I'd have to get a copy of some of the other sets incl. the latest Fantasy (magic), and that would be a lot of here-ing and there-ing to get something workable, maybe ...
I should probably have a closer look at 'Age of Magic' (I had h/copies, and sold them a while back), as that is apparently well-suited to shoe-horning such figures into its various faction templates.
There's a blog out there where someone promotes it in that regard, and goes through making a list from the Hordes 'Skorne' faction.
https://zacgaming.wordpress.com/2019/09/15/adapting-a-hordes-or-warmachine-army-part-1-sage-age-of-magic/
All the same, I guess I should really be willing to give the official rules more of a go - Brawlmachine's pts. value gives the kind of array of figures / units I had in mind, and the head honcho behind them (Jaden) is even writing a Mordheim variant !
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Agreed on all points, Bloggard. I don't really have a dog in the fight (not even an argus) these days where Privateer's concerned but it would be a shame to see them go OOB. From what my contacts in the industry have told me they're still hoping to turn things around with Brawlmachine (which is certainly a more newbie/casual-play-friendly format) and their other games (Monpoc, RiotQuest) which have been getting more attention than WM/H of late. The basic game engine of WM/H isn't bad at all, just very much a game versus any kind of simulation, which isn't wholly to my tastes.
Not sure how Warcaster is doing. There seems to be very little talk and releases a bit slow, and as you said the sculpts are rather bland rather than standing out in a crowded market of scifi figs the way War Machine did way back in...2001? 2002? Maybe it'll take off as more figs come out. As I recall WM took a while to really start getting played, although the hobby's changed a lot in 20 years.
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ha - now you mention it, I should pick an argus up - Orboros has turned out to be the main faction I've collected (although tbh, I seem to have done a good job of getting a few sets/ battlegroups etc for all of them!) ...
If I understand you correctly, it's good to hear that PP are looking to get behind Brawl 'officially'.
Some (very) keenly priced faction sets corresponding to the currently available lists might well jump-start things for them.
Your comment of 'game vs simulation' is interesting. On the face of it that should recommend the official rules to me but I also like impressionism rather than memory-intensive detail, and also want prat-falls caused by the whims of the dice-Gods to be ever-present ... !
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Should be easy enough. It's all in how you stat them up. We played everything form Masters of the Universe, to Pulp, to purely Historical. It's not competitive rule set, so the rules about how you build units are not etched in stone.
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Should be easy enough. It's all in how you stat them up. We played everything form Masters of the Universe, to Pulp, to purely Historical. It's not competitive rule set, so the rules about how you build units are not etched in stone.
Are you familiar with the Warmahordes ranges, Baron?
I'm thinking I could do with: FFoL: 'core rules' / Bigger Battles / Wasteland Warriors / Galactic Heroes (inc. Codex and Vehicle supplements) / and the new 'Magic' supplement...
does that sound about right? Or am I over-doing it?
I have PDFs for most of those now (bought both at your site and WV).
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I've searched for alternative rules to use with the figures, and while not a lot comes up, SAGA age of Magic is mentioned, as well as a song of blades and heroes and even Warlords of Erehwon.
I know nothing about Warmachine/Hordes, so am piping up a bit out of turn here, but when you mentioned Song of Blades, I dimly recalled someone talking or writing about using those figures with the Osprey game Of Gods and Mortals.
That game (if you don't know it) works on the synergies between the 'gods', 'mortals' and 'legends' in each army, so it might be worth a look. And it's both very good and played with a smallish number of figures on each side.
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I've not played warmachine hordes before but am familiar with the eclectic looking miniature ranges. I see no reason why you can't take the traits you like from the relevant FfoL books to cover the particular aspect of a troop type or unit?
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I know nothing about Warmachine/Hordes, so am piping up a bit out of turn here, but when you mentioned Song of Blades, I dimly recalled someone talking or writing about using those figures with the Osprey game Of Gods and Mortals.
What I see to remember is that the warjacks (?) were 'gods', with 'mortals' required to repair them (a reskinning of the resummoning in standard OGAM).
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thanks HG - I know of that set of rules but never picked up a copy.
sounds interesting - not clear how it would deal with the steam-punky / sci-fi elements of warmahordes ?
BTW - in perusing threads tangentially connected to this topic, I know you're a fan (?) of Rogue Planet.
That's a set of rules which has been suggested as suitable for use with the figures in question - and I consequently bought the pdf package from WV.
I have to admit to finding it a bit double-dutch as things stand!
Certainly find the 'no measuring' thing a bit of culture-shock ... old frt that I am... tbh, I'm similarly ill-disposed towards (playing) card activation etc (FFoL), in terms of a knee-jerk reaction!
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I've not played warmachine hordes before but am familiar with the eclectic looking miniature ranges. I see no reason why you can't take the traits you like from the relevant FfoL books to cover the particular aspect of a troop type or unit?
quite so Elk, hence my posting here - was just hoping that someone might have done the leg-work for me and bestow the benefits of their wisdom accordingly :D
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thanks HG - I know of that set of rules but never picked up a copy.
sounds interesting - not clear how it would deal with the steam-punky / sci-fi elements of warmahordes ?
I think that you'd be able to create effects fairly easily with various powers and disabilities - and you could always tack some on from Andrea's other rulesets if need be.
BTW - in perusing threads tangentially connected to this topic, I know you're a fan (?) of Rogue Planet.
That's a set of rules which has been suggested as suitable for use with the figures in question - and I consequently bought the pdf package from WV.
I have to admit to finding it a bit double-dutch as things stand!
Certainly find the 'no measuring' thing a bit of culture-shock ... old frt that I am... tbh, I'm similarly ill-disposed towards (playing) card activation etc (FFoL), in terms of a knee-jerk reaction!
Now, here I'm on firmer ground! Yes, Rogue Planet might be the very thing for this, given its emphasis on picking up things and people and chucking them about - and on huge machines and monsters ramming into each other.
I'd say that all of Brent's rules have a certain culture-shock factor at first. But all of them play very smoothly once you get them on the table. We've been playing The Battlefield quite a bit, and it's one of the smoothest and most intuitive games going - you just have to jump in. Rogue Planet's much the same.
You do need to make sure that your table is broken up with lots of barriers and distinct areas of terrain, but that can be done easily enough. And then the limitless movement works just fine.
The collective hit points ("energy"?) are another head-scratcher on the page but really intuitive once the game gets going.
Also, the pawn system for heroes is brilliant. It's a really good excuse for getting all sorts of interesting miniatures on the table, and it allows damage to the heroes to work in interesting ways.
So yes! I'd go for that - it's the best science-fantasy game out there.
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I think that you'd be able to create effects fairly easily with various powers and disabilities - and you could always tack some on from Andrea's other rulesets if need be.
Now, here I'm on firmer ground! Yes, Rogue Planet might be the very thing for this, given its emphasis on picking up things and people and chucking them about - and on huge machines and monsters ramming into each other.
I'd say that all of Brent's rules have a certain culture-shock factor at first. But all of them play very smoothly once you get them on the table. We've been playing The Battlefield quite a bit, and it's one of the smoothest and most intuitive games going - you just have to jump in. Rogue Planet's much the same.
So yes! I'd go for that - it's the best science-fantasy game out there.
interesting re: OGAM then ... hmm
and understood re: Rogue Planet: and as I've bought them, it would be daft not to try and puzzle them out I suppose.
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I have looked into this myself - for skirmish games ( 2 to 15 figs per side). Interested in what you find.
I hope the new fantasy FFOL rules (I have them on pre-order) will allow for the creation of mixed and match level troops as one of the challenges I find with FFOL is that there is not a great way of balancing sides with different numbers of figs. It's a bit of an art to decide are say 'a caster and warjack pair' (so 2 very powerful figs) roughly the same level of power as what number of less powerful goons (bile thralls for example). No balancing system is perfect but I find the FFOL system works better when there are roughly the same number of figs per side.
I have started to look at the Pulp Ally system for skirmishing fantasy games. I still have to try it but it seems like that may work better for what I am looking for in using the Warmahorde (and Shadespire) figs. i.e. a narrative but still competitive skirmish game.
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sounds interesting Mellis - thanks for the post.
Pulp Alley is one system I know nothing about - never had any of the figures either, which is unusual ... !
Are you going to post a thread here going into greater detail?
I would say that I'm after something that will work with more than the 15 figures you mention.
the more I think about it, the more it seems a bit daft not to give Brawlmachine (or a similar low-ish points approach) a go; I'm dismissing the offcial rules without really given them a decent run as things stand
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Pulp Alley is another truly brilliant game, and it's very flexible. It does tend towards the small side (typically six to ten figures a player, from memory), but there's a mooks/goons rule that allows you to bulk out forces - and it works really well.
I had another look at Of Gods and Mortals. It could work well, although the games's symbioses are between the gods and mortals whereas, presumably, you'd want it to be between the 'god' (jack) and 'legend' (caster). Most of the powers could be reskinned as something steam-punky or technological with a name change.
I do think Rogue Planet is the perfect fit, though: it's an explicitly science-fantasy game, it's full of collisions and throws, and it's just so much fun!
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I’d make the Warjacks Huge (6 hits, +2 on wounds), Soulless (no shock), Heavy Armor (6+ reduce damage), and Godlike (ignore modifiers for damage and ignores Out if Action to be a Wound instead). That’s about equal to 3 enemies.
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great stuff HG and BaronVJ.
really appreciate your continuing to think through this and offer advice and even stats.
A lot for me to look at here and consider.
Have had a look at the Pulp Alley free rules - and probably not for me, one way and another. Don't doubt they're brilliant on their own terms.
I think I need to look a the official rules, and contrast them with Rogue Planet / FFol / and Saga AoM.
* I think OGaM is a bit too much in the free-styling dept. for me, from the sounds of it, and would mean another purchase too.
Some much needed brain exercise ahead!
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sounds interesting Mellis - thanks for the post.
Pulp Alley is one system I know nothing about - never had any of the figures either, which is unusual ... !
Are you going to post a thread here going into greater detail?
I'm looking to do small scale pulp style games with the Warmahordes figs - so different than you. To me that fits more with the named characters/figs and the fantasy serial style games. For larger games Saga Age of Magic is what I thought to use.
I have got distracted with other projects though so have not made a huge amount of progress. Here is an example of a 'crew' based around the Cryx ‘The Witch Coven of Garlghast’ caster with a few extra supporting models.
https://mellis1644.wordpress.com/2016/10/31/witch-coven-of-garlghast-and-pulp-alley-stats/ (https://mellis1644.wordpress.com/2016/10/31/witch-coven-of-garlghast-and-pulp-alley-stats/)
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I’ve got a big Khador army and have really wondered what rules I could use as WM3 was too much brain burn and the resin figures
Became stupidly expensive. Have been waiting for some kind of Osprey agnostic rules set for steam punk where big walking machines have a central role like maybe Gamma Wolves. What about that Blaster game Sludge?
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Sludge is an interesting call - I think it would fit the aesthetic and general approach - but the current version is very much traditional renaissance to horse and musket units, so human infantry and cavalry. That is not to say you couldn’t add the walkers but there is nothing specific in the core rules to support them.
It is interesting to hear that Saga AoM is a good option - as that certainly has nothing specifically for walkers or war machines, but it does have large fantasy monsters, which are probably a reasonable template. The 6 factions in Saga AoM are pretty generic and allow you to fit your figures to the factions - but it does need some effort to understand the differences between the factions (units, battle boards and spells) to do that mapping.
The second edition of In Her Majesties Name has considerably expanded rules for walkers - and certainly has the steam punk background - but it is firmly a skirmish game with forces of 5-10 figures.
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Mellis - good stuff. I can see how some of the figures could work very well with a 'Pulp' approach.
And I agree re: AoM. As memory serves; it probably is the easiest to use with larger number of figures / units, although not necessarily retaining the Warmahordes 'thing' (caster / jack / beast interaction).
Fred - I thought AoM did have a faction or two which allowed for large mechanical constructs? Again, by no means getting close to the relationship underpinning WmH, tho' - a lot of house rules necessary in that respect, I guess.
SirSh and Fred - don't know 'Sludge' at all - not clear that you're both talking about the same game, as 'blaster' doesn't sound horse and musket?
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Blaster is a magazine - sludge is a set of rules in the most recent issue - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/359671/BLASTER-Volume-3
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ah, right. Thanks for clarifying Fred.
gosh - it's got a lot of good stuff in it.
Hadn't realised that was where 'Shadowgrave' was coming from 'officially' - thought it was just a coinage!
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Another option would be OPR https://onepagerules.com/ - I know someone was looking at doing some warmahordes stats and it would be reasonability easy to go some generic stats but they would not be warcaster/jack thing again.
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yes, thanks Mellis - got their AoF and skirmish AoF rules a while back.
actually, I thought I'd bought the 'full' versions - but appears thats only on Patreon - maybe it's changed.
As you say - possible to use them, no doubt.
I guess when it comes down to it, with the necessary mental effort you could use / adapt pretty much any sense of rules - or even write your own.
As I'm definitely an aesthetics first hobbyist, that might not be such a daft approach actually ...
as I only play (if I do again!) casually and domestically, balance isn't that much of issue for me, and nor are swingy-dice roll dictated rules tbh ...
anyhow, thanks for the continued thoughts.