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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 10:59:39 AM

Title: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 10:59:39 AM
I'm painting up some 1/72 HaT Spanish infantry - principally as generic humans for Hordes of the Things, but also with half an eye to some DBA games as I have some Andalusians on the go too.

Now, when it comes to the shields of eleventh-century Spanish troops, I'm assuming that shields would be individual affairs with 'proto-Heraldry' at best. But I see a lot of designs on this forum and elsewhere that are all red and gold or black and gold. Is there any particular basis for this? Or is it largely guesswork? And are there any contemporary manuscripts or tapestries that offer illumination?

Any quick pointers much appreciated!
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Atheling on 27 August 2021, 01:19:53 PM
I (barely) remember the HAT range. Roughly 1100 yeah?
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 01:26:24 PM
Yes - the range is branded 'El Cid', so late eleventh century, and the heavy infantry have kite shields. I suppose what I really want to know is if these were likely to have been entirely individualised (my default assumption for medieval shields) or to share colours or patterns within the same body of troops.
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Atheling on 27 August 2021, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 01:26:24 PM
Yes - the range is branded 'El Cid', so late eleventh century, and the heavy infantry have kite shields. I suppose what I really want to know is if these were likely to have been entirely individualised (my default assumption for medieval shields) or to share colours or patterns within the same body of troops.

A health mix of kite shields and round shields would hit the spot.

Quite a few French Knights fought in Spain, often as mercenaries during (the rough) time period of the 11th CE

As regarding Heraldry- I just made it up! See below:
Varied
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xzBx1zuLC48/YMiioi7_1vI/AAAAAAABHAw/VqWEHnNPd2sHKy844FvVC_TggweCHyNZwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/NORMAN%2BMILITES%2B1D.jpg)

More Uniform
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wRVhgjgGoYI/XqK-gwf_roI/AAAAAAABDUA/oWTFxxXJdXsiGnyoXfsMaMtaI6CqWZejACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/SPANISH%2BKNIGHTS%2BUNIT%2B1C.jpg)
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 01:59:35 PM
Thanks very much - and great shots!

I suppose the infantry were likely to be retainers of the mounted knights, so perhaps some degree of uniformity might be appropriate for the former.
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Atheling on 27 August 2021, 02:06:01 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 01:59:35 PM
Thanks very much - and great shots!

Cheers, I hope it is of some use.

I would also check out James Morris, Mogsey Makes blog as he has some new and old stuff (the old stuff filled the pages of the Warhammer Ancient Battles El Cid supplement- all superb, informative stuff):
https://mogsymakes.net/the-later-middle-ages/ (https://mogsymakes.net/the-later-middle-ages/)

Quote from: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 01:59:35 PM
I suppose the infantry were likely to be retainers of the mounted knights, so perhaps some degree of uniformity might be appropriate for the former.

As there is not that much surviving evidence available (at least in English), you are free-ish to make up your own mind to some extent.
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Aha - that seems to be the motherlode - and lots of good inspiration for the Andalusian army I have underway too. I actually started the Andalusian spearmen a few weeks back, but the Christians seem a 'quicker kill', given more visible armour and less of the dreaded cloth!

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Atheling on 27 August 2021, 02:46:35 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Aha - that seems to be the motherlode - and lots of good inspiration for the Andalusian army I have underway too. I actually started the Andalusian spearmen a few weeks back, but the Christians seem a 'quicker kill', given more visible armour and less of the dreaded cloth!

Thanks again!

No probs. Do post up pics when you have the painting finished :)
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: emosbur on 27 August 2021, 09:46:20 PM
Try here:

http://warfare.tk/12C.htm

http://warfare.tk/11C.htm

Milo.
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Hobgoblin on 27 August 2021, 10:42:05 PM
Wow! There goes the weekend! That's brilliant - many thanks! At first glance, most of the illuminated stuff seems to suggest varied shields. Food for thought - and much more research!

Quote from: Atheling on 27 August 2021, 02:46:35 PM
No probs. Do post up pics when you have the painting finished :)


I certainly shall!
Title: Re: Quick question on Spanish shields during the El Cid era.
Post by: Rochejaquelein on 02 September 2021, 03:32:03 AM
Here's what I found on Manuscript Miniatures (Spanish only, years from 1050 to 1100). Looks like a mix of solid colored shields with some simple designs.
https://manuscriptminiatures.com/search?year_start=1050&year_end=1100&country=14&art=&tag=&gallery=&source=&place=&artist=#results