Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Plynkes on October 08, 2009, 05:28:03 PM
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Saw this on TMP.
http://www.adalbertus.com.pl/go/_info/?id=1234 (http://www.adalbertus.com.pl/go/_info/?id=1234)
(http://www.adalbertus.com.pl/photo/1234.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Wolf_(auxiliary_cruiser) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Wolf_(auxiliary_cruiser))
Scout plane for a Jerry auxiliary cruiser? Wait a minute... I like planes. I've got a toy Jerry auxiliary cruiser. I must have one! Okay, so perhaps the Elke is a little small to fit one of those on her deck, but maybe they carry it around packed up in crates?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Hunt%20for%20the%20Elke/Elke.jpg)
Or something... Oh I don't care, I'm getting one anyway. Out Oct 15th. 25 Euros. Not a bargain exactly, but I've seen (and paid) far worse in the world of obscure 1/48th scale Great War kites.
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It´s lovely, but it´s not exactly a ship-borne plane, isn´t it? Just before I left, an aircraft magazine ran an article on early torpedo craft used by the German Marineflieger in WW1 - this was apparently used by them, but based on land.
EDIT: Never mind the above, I just read the article you linked.
Nonetheless, this would make a totally lovely addition to the "Elke". First thing I bought when I had settled in here was a DVD of "African Queen" and now I´m again itching to do some boats again... I might suggest, though, looking for a Hansa Brandenburg floatplane, because it would be more compact and probably as lovely. Provided there´s one in 1/48th scale. This one´s going to be rather big, though, so I guess 25 Euros might not be that unfair and grotesquely overpriced.
In that case, go ahead, buy one, build a lovely piece of it and treat us to another installment of the 5F.
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You have a point that a little Hansa-Brandenburg W-29 might suit the eye better. I like this one more though, and it is historically authentic for the purpose. Anyway I haven't had any luck hunting down a H-B in 1/48th so far (other than the CC flying boat).
We'll see. As you suggest, I'll probably get it anyway just for the fun of building it, even if it never pairs up with the Elke.
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I would have thought the solution was rather obvious, build a bigger boat. All the Akula kids are doing it. :D
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Dylan, you are only allowed to buy one if you also buy a steam catapult for the Elke. >:D
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You have a point that a little Hansa-Brandenburg W-29 might suit the eye better. I like this one more though, and it is historically authentic for the purpose. Anyway I haven't had any luck hunting down a H-B in 1/48th so far (other than the CC flying boat).
I´ll unashamedly admit that I´m biased in that I consider the Hansa Brandenburg aircraft the most appealing central powers aircraft of the war... ;) Of course, actually *finding* a model might be a problem, as you pointed out.
Dylan, you are only allowed to buy one if you also buy a steam catapult for the Elke. >:D
Given that they didn´t yet use catapults for those floatplanes (or at least I´m unaware of catapults until the 1920s), I´d say we let him off with building a towed pontoon or barge to house the maintenance workshop, spares and stuff.
Again, I´m kicking myself here for not bringing "The Man from Tanganyika" over to the UK. In this Micheluzzi comic, the Königsberg also had a small floatplane at her disposal. Nice yarn, though not as catchy as "Bab-el-Mandeb".
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Dylan, you are only allowed to buy one if you also buy a steam catapult for the Elke. >:D
A floatplane doesn't require a steam catapult to take off, you silly goose. Something to lower it into the sea is all that one needs. I would imagine a small winch/crane effort could easily be rigged from the masts of merchantman.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Woelfchen_1.jpg)
I gather Admiral Benbow is the man to see about cranes around here. :)
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Nice plane! Guys you looking at the wrong country. Something for our forgotten hero from AH!
When I get a chance I'll look at something for Austria.
Helen
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Helen, you will be pleased to hear I currently have four (FOUR!) K.u.K. aircraft awaiting completion in the Plynkes-Flugzeugfabrik. God knows when I'll get around to them, though.
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Hmm, no wonder I can't seem to find any AH aircraft, you have all of them! lol
It will be lovely to see when you do have a chance to get back into your project at some point after the competition know doubt?
Ciao,
Helen
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I can only quote this:
"In the inter-war years, it was common for cruisers and battleships to be equipped with catapult-launched reconnaissance seaplanes. A few navies, especially those which lacked true aircraft carriers, also acquired catapult-equipped seaplane carriers for fleet reconnaissance purposes."
from here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaplane_carrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaplane_carrier)
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I can only quote this:
"In the inter-war years, it was common for cruisers and battleships to be equipped with catapult-launched reconnaissance seaplanes. A few navies, especially those which lacked true aircraft carriers, also acquired catapult-equipped seaplane carriers for fleet reconnaissance purposes."
from here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaplane_carrier
You may noticed former user that this is a WW1 board and topics covering WW1 are posted here!
Helen
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You may noticed former user that this is a WW1 board and topics covering WW1 are posted here!
Helen
Yes, as I was so *rudely* snubbedHammers Irony TM by Plynkes when I suggested such a contraption for the Elke I read up a bit on the topic. Steam catapults for aircraft were indeed invented quite late in the 19th century but were not implemented in any scale until the the 20ies and 30ies. I stand corrected. I bow my head.
...
But steam catapults are so cool and in our skewed perspective on reality the Elke could have a Preussian tinkerer equivalent of Professeur Tournesol aboard. See?! Not so easily suppressed, am I? ;)
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Sorry Madam
I stand corrected - I only wanted to contibute to this aspect:
"Given that they didn´t yet use catapults for those floatplanes (or at least I´m unaware of catapults until the 1920s), I´d say we let him off with building a towed pontoon or barge to house the maintenance workshop, spares and stuff."
whether steam catapults were used in WWI or later
if my quotation is useless or uninteresting at all, I shall delete the post
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Steam catapults for aircraft invented in the late 19th Century, Hammers? That's a rather interesting idea seeing as the first aeroplane didn't fly until 1903. What did they use them for while they were sitting around waiting for the aeroplane to be invented? Clay pigeon shooting? lol
I appreciate your enthusiasm, Hammers, but I think a steam catapult is a little too snazzy for Elke. She's a simple country girl. I've nothing against steam catapults, I'm sure they're very nice. But as I said, she doesn't actually need one, and it just complicates matters. Besides, there's no room for the damn plane, let alone a catapult.
former user, your post and link was very interesting. Please do not delete it. Seaplane carriers are indeed very relevant to the Great War.
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Steam catapults for aircraft invented in the late 19th Century, Hammers?
Yes, that was a bit careless. Not to flog a dead horse, but catapults (not steam, sorry) seems to have been an integral part of the naissance of air flight. But I am bandying words here... :)
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Steam catapults for aircraft invented in the late 19th Century, Hammers? That's a rather interesting idea seeing as the first aeroplane didn't fly until 1903. What did they use them for while they were sitting around waiting for the aeroplane to be invented? Clay pigeon shooting? lol
I think some aviation pioneers used similar "shooty contraptions" to launch their "aviationey contraptions". Not really successful, though. From what I remember from my misspent youth, the brothers Wright also used a gravity-powered catapult to aid the launch of their "Flyer".
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Wait a minute, if you like so much ships and planes and Elke is so small to accomodate a steam crane and a sea plane,
why you don't build a new one (maybe named as Kaiserin Luise/Amelia etc) with enough space in the back to accomodate the brand new plane and the steam crane???
I know it is a difficult project, but with all those lovely boats appearing recently, everybody should built one new vessel!
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Nah, scratchbuilding stuff ain't my bag. Don't have the skills, patience or inclination for that kind of thing. The hobby has to be fun or it ain't a hobby. To be honest I'm struggling enough with motivation for the painting at the moment, let alone building stuff. I sit down at the painting table and just find myself instantly wanting to do something else. Output has ground to a complete halt.
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Ask AKULA (when he finishes his aircraft carrier!
Nah, scratchbuilding stuff ain't my bag. Don't have the skills, patience or inclination for that kind of thing. The hobby has to be fun or it ain't a hobby. To be honest I'm struggling enough with motivation for the painting at the moment, let alone building stuff. I sit down at the painting table and just find myself instantly wanting to do something else. Output has ground to a complete halt.
Unfortunately I know the feeling.
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I sit down at the painting table and just find myself instantly wanting to do something else. Output has ground to a complete halt.
"Unfortunately I know the feeling. "
Sorry to hear that - I motivate myself with building, and then I am forced to see it finished, as well as accompanying figures.
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It's odd, as my enthusiasm for gaming is undiminished. I really want to do it, but the moment I try to actually paint I just get this "I'm sick of this shit" feeling. Anyway, the lads are coming over tonight and we're having an impromptu WWI game, so hopefully that will help recharge the batteries.
I don't really think I need another auxiliary cruiser. Two would be an extravagance. I'm just going to have to put up with little Elke, I think (I say "little" but she's massive on the tabletop!). We'll probably have the plane in a game with her, and not worry to much about where it came from, or the practicalities of the thing. It's just a bit of fun, after all.
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Your "Elke" is really beatiful and I understand the missing necessity to change anything
but how about something like that ? ;)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/Langley1903.jpg)
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Nah, scratchbuilding stuff ain't my bag. Don't have the skills, patience or inclination for that kind of thing. The hobby has to be fun or it ain't a hobby. To be honest I'm struggling enough with motivation for the painting at the moment, let alone building stuff. I sit down at the painting table and just find myself instantly wanting to do something else. Output has ground to a complete halt.
I'd build it for you if you draw the specs. Seriously. :)
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I don't really think I need another auxiliary cruiser. Two would be an extravagance.
Look what others think:
(http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn335/argsilverson/VSF%20women/DSC_0657.jpg)
Sorry guys I got the image via some TMP link. Today TMP does not work for me and I cannot recall TMP and original links.
Credit of course goes to original players.
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Oh, I'm all for having lots of boats. I just don't think I have need of two auxiliary cruisers to go commerce-raiding. I think there are only so many tales that can be told with them. If I was starting over I would want a bigger one with room for a plane (but of course, table space to game with the thing starts becoming problematic then), but I already have one.
former user, I love that thing. It's fantastic. In fact, I would like to live in it.
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former user, I love that thing. It's fantastic. In fact, I would like to live in it.
and it would be a phantastic entry for the "Build something" contest 8)
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"push" ;)
in fact, it is a simple platform with a shed and another platform on top
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What a wonderful old seaplane. That is going to be fun to game with I am sure.
lol
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I found the links, now:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180786
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Sorry Madam
I stand corrected - I only wanted to contibute to this aspect:
"Given that they didn´t yet use catapults for those floatplanes (or at least I´m unaware of catapults until the 1920s), I´d say we let him off with building a towed pontoon or barge to house the maintenance workshop, spares and stuff."
whether steam catapults were used in WWI or later
if my quotation is useless or uninteresting at all, I shall delete the post
Thanks former user,
It now seems relevant to the subject.
Thanks Dylan for your thoughts.
Helen
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I found the links, now:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=180786
You really know how to pull a string ;)
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I suppose this could go in Latest Book... but it pertains to this thread so anyway,
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/SMSWolf.jpg)
Late birthday present (Amazon or the Royal Mail fucked up apparently, this is the second one they sent, first one to get through, Boche commerce raiders must have got the other).
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Cool! I'd forgotten about this thread, but I was playing a card game a few weeks ago called "The Kaiser's Pirates", all about German commerce raiders in WW1.
Neat game, actually, with an entertaining mechanic in which all players play both German raiders (or even German Navy ships, if they're lucky) and the targeted merchantmen (and the Royal Navy anti-raider forces) at the same time.
The Wulf and wulfchen aircraft are represented, with the Wulf getting a special scouting bonus if it can deploy the plane!
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these are such remarkable stories and a great inspiration for gaming.
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I am not sure if this belongs here - has anyone thought about these experimental combined cruiser/ carriers ??
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Er, yes: This whole thread is us thinking about them. Not quite sure what you mean.
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What I mean are heavy cruisers and battle cruisers experimentally converted to start planes, thus used in a double role. As far as I can remember, the aft section had a small flight deck or a catapult/crane and waterplanes were used in general.
I thought the thread was about converting civilian ships to carriers, but never mind - it seems the right place to discuss.
I recently aquired a ship hull from a 1:72 model (85 cm) and thought of building a cruiser (main artillery forward in a big turret, secondary artillery in turrets to the side), with a small flightdeck on the aft section with a hydraulic catapult. The idea is to build the model allowing the flight deck removable (possibly with the ability to set it on a trailer), with a spare main artillery turret to replace it, that can also be used as a coastal battery with the appropriate base.
This way I could use it as 2 ships, carrier trailer and coastal battery, depending on what I want to game, and I don't have to build and store 2 ship hulls that I never would use in a game anyway, unless I wanted to do Pearl Harbour.
but this is in no way historical, thus my question
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I suppose this could go in Latest Book... but it pertains to this thread so anyway,
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/SMSWolf.jpg)
Late birthday present (Amazon or the Royal Mail fucked up apparently, this is the second one they sent, first one to get through, Boche commerce raiders must have got the other).
My Welsh Grandfather was in the Mercantile Marine before and after WW1, during the war he was in the Royal Machine Gun Corp. That's not a very good, full description but all the paperwork is put up at the moment.
Anyway, after he passed away back in the 60s my mom gave me all of his medals. One of them had an inscription around the edge with the name Major J.W. Flood A.I.F. She said my grandfather won it in a poker game.
I kept it for years without any idea of who Major Flood was or what A.I.F. meant.
Then a few years after the internet happened I dug the medal out of a footlocker I have and began searching, turns out Major John Wellesley Flood was a doctor in the Australian Imperial Force. While on the internet I ran across the website Lost Medals Australia and got in contact with the guy that ran it. I gave him all the data I had and he ended up locating a relative of Major Floods that currently lives in France. I contacted him and sent the medal to him. In return I received a copy of the book mentioned on the SMS Wolf.
Major Wolf and his wife Rose were taken prisoner when the Wolf commandeered the ship they were on, which I believe was the Matunga. There's photos of the major and his wife standing on deck with the Wolf's captain. Rose, from what the book depicts, was quite the party girl.
I never found just how my grandfather and Major Flood met, but it could have been on the ship (TSS Victoria) my Grandfather served on after the war when he went back into the Mercantile Marine. Here's some info on my granddad:
Richard Meredith Richards
DOB – 1897 (1899?)
FEB 1914 – MAY 1915 - (SS?) ORIANA STEWARD LIVERPOOL
(FROM CONTINUOUS CERTIFICATE OF DISCHARGE BOOK)
ENLISTED - MAY 19, 1915 CHESHIRE YEOMANRY PRIVATE
DISCHARGED – FEB 5, 1919
(FROM DISCHARGE CERTIFICATE)
CORPS REGIMENT No. RANK
CHESHIRE YEOMANRY 1670 PRIVATE
MANCHESTER REGIMENT 40456 PRIVATE
MACHINE GUN CORPS 24922 PRIVATE
MEDALS/BADGES: BRITISH WAR MEDAL
MERCANTILE MARINE MEDAL
VICTORY MEDAL
SILVER WAR BADGE (517947)
JUL 1919 – TSS VICTORIA ASST STEWARD
Catalogue reference WO 372/16
Here's some photos of Major Flood's medal. I also have his service record.
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Thanks, Dubar. I love these little fragments of history we unearth about our forebears, or from local war mermorials, etc.
(You know, I had entirely forgotten about this thread, it's quite the oldiie. I missed your post back in January. Sadly my Great War projects are all lying dormant right now. The Once and Future Project, let's hope.)
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Always glad to provide some insight!!!
I wish I could get in the "Way Back Machine" and talk to my granddad, to hear his stories of The Great War and to find out exactly how he came about getting Major Flood's medal.
I only met him once, when my Welsh mom took me and my brother to Chester England to visit back in 1956 on the ship SS Ile De France. He would take me with him to get fish & chips and while we waited would have a pint or 2!!!
He also would give me one of those huge English pennies to bet with when his buddies came over to bet on the horse races (can't recall if it was on TV or radio). My pick never won, but I raised such a stink they would each give me a penny just to shut me up LOL!
He and my grandmother owned a corner store in Chester, living upstairs. About all I can recall of that was every Monday the bakery man would come around and deliver bread, cakes, etc, including some black licorice shaped like a baby and coated in sugar. One morning we woke up to find my uncle's cocker spaniel Juno had knocked over the container and had licked all the sugar off the licorice!!!
My uncle (my mom said he was a British tank commander in WW2) and his dog were there because I had spent 2 weeks with him and my aunt in London, where they lived. When we left he put me and Juno on a train and said "I'll be right back, I've got to get the tickets".
When he came back the train was gone, he had put both of us on the wrong train!!! I believe the train was headed to Scotland instead of Chester and they radioed ahead and got them to stop while he caught the next train.
I was one scared yank kid on a train full of people who I could not understand (and couldn't understand me I'm sure, with my southern Virginian drawl).
It all got straightened out in the end and it gives me a story to tell to my grandkids.
My mom and her sister (uncle's wife) were both nurses (aides) in WW2, dad was in the 9th USAAF.
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It's sad when family history gets lost. I did sit up many nights with my grandmother, getting her stories of the war years out of her.
She lived on a farm during WW2, and had so many recollections of that time. Rationing, the black market, Black GIs* and Italian POWS (who she loved) coming to the farm, and also German POWS (who she hated), and also Land Girls being entirely useless and often being sent away for getting pregnant! I wish I had talked to her even more while I had the chance, and also other relatives whose war stories I never got to hear. Oh well, can't be helped now.
*The boxer Joe Louis was stationed five miles from where she lived, but she never mentioned him coming to visit, sadly.
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My mom was in Coventry when it got bombed, had a scar on her leg from the shrapnel that got too close. I have the piece of metal she says was the bit they took out of her but I have no idea if it's the real deal. She said all she ever did was take severed legs and arms to the incinerator and cleanup after they patched someone up.
She said she also hated the Germans, but 3 of her best friends were German when I was growing up. The family across the street was named Griesbach, the father would tell me about stories his dad would tell him about his time during WW1. He was not in it but the family was the subject of much hatred here in the states during that time.
I have quite a few bits of stories but they're all WW2 related, maybe I'll post on that board.