Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Happy Wanderer on 12 November 2022, 09:01:14 PM
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Hi Guys,
Anyone know what ancient Sicilian ‘Sicels’ would look like aka what figures are available? I’m thinking of 5th century ones suitable for Tyrant and Athenian invasion period
Cheers
Happy Wanderer
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HW
I have a cunning plan .. please to be calling me ..
Cheers
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I’m stumped on this one folks.
Any ideas?
I’m thinking a generic Greek looking figure with bare head and maybe the Greek floppy hat armed with javelin, maybe rocks, etc.
If anyone has given this one some thought I’d appreciate any comment.
Cheers
HW
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I have no clue but I can suggest looking at Mediterranean peoples from that period and see if there is a common costume, shield design, armour, headgear.
Any period art available?
Surely Sicily must have museum staff that would be eager to share findings?
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I just spent three weeks going all over Sicily and no luck…Romanisation was most decidedly efficient.
;-)
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First off, let me say that I am NOT an expert at all and generally fall into the "If you like the look of it, do it" category of ancient wargamer.
Prehistoric Sicily seemed to be a bit of a melting pot with tribes from the Northeastern Europe, the eastern Med, Iberia, and possibly even Greece forming the early peoples. The Sicels were the last of these groups to arrive, supposedly? Therefore, influences could have come from a variety of sources, and therefore a variety of miniature ranges.
All of that said, I would imagine they were pretty standard light infantry/peltast types. So most of those models should work fine, up to and including unarmored Samnites. I am not finding much detail about Sicel fighting practices which also points to a light infantry force, since Greeks/Italians only really cared to write about heavy infantry and the occasional horseman!
However, as someone who was actually on the island, I imagine that you would have way better line-of-sight to it than I would.
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Likewise, I am no expert but I was curious so did some reading around this - that took me all of 30 minutes because there is little known.
The Sicels did manage to defeat an army from Syracuse in 450 BCE so I imagine they had some sort of heavy infantry.
Greeks had colonised Sicily since 800BCE, so we have some 300-400 years of Greek influence.
I imagine they would have an army similar to poorer Greek states in more mountainous areas. Lots of light infantry, mainly peltasts and psiloi of one sort or another, some hoplites or equivalent, and a smattering of light cavalry.
I would use Italian miniatures - Oscans, Samnites etc.
Mortem et Gloriam has some fairly extensive army lists. The Sicel one is pure conjecture but might help:
https://lurkio.co.uk/meg/meg/wp-content/uploads/MEG2022/MeG-Army-Lists-27-Spain-Sicily-and-Africa-2022-01.pdf
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Most of what you both say makes sense. I'm a little less convinced by Imitation hoplites but a massed peltast type troop fighting in rough terrain seems equally likely, though I suppose both are possible.
The early Syracusan and Akragantian armies was not that well trained, being a generation on from Gelon's victorious army against the Carthaginians, and by the time of Ducetius' campaign against them in 451 his defeat of them may resemble something of the defeat inflicted against Athenian hoplites in the Peloponnesian War by Aetolian tribal Psiloi. The subsequent 'extra effort' by the Syracusan expedition against them in 450 put them to flight so perhaps they had learned their lesson of underestimating the Sicels on home ground.
I do think that "Lots of light infantry, mainly peltasts and psiloi of one sort or another and a smattering of light cavalry" seems reasonable....and a Greek looking light infantry type of miniature will go a long way to being mostly 'representative' of their look.
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Yes. Hoplites may be a stretch but not unreasonable, but the Athenian defeat in Aetolia is also a reasonable analogy. If there are no hoplites cavalry may be of higher status. Possibly a few armoured, but still javelin armed, cavalry.
All the Italian cavalry I can find have shields so you might have to use Greek cavalry.
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Yes, Greek cavalry for sure. In the end you have a very Greek looking force that would be reliant on rough terrain, ruses, etc to take on any unknowing or hubristic lowland agrarian demos types.
Certainly a variation for the hoplites to fight I would think though probably not in the open field.
;-)
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A lot of Greek influences, and close to Etruscan’s so perhaps a good mix. Personally I would have hoplites but very few, few light cavalry and lots of light infantry. Depends upon what year you want to depict I guess.
Cheers
Matt
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HW
ithink generic trop types is the rightcall , Peltasts ,Javelinmen , Tribal Psiloi ..etc .
Figures wise the trick imho is making them "Look"a little different ..for fun ...then Generic types , a touch more rural /rustic .
Samnites but with a different twist as they are not really Italian ..
Cheers
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I’m no expert, have only done incidental reading about ancient Sicily, but it seems to me like there probably would also have been a Carthaginian/Phoenician influence on Sicels (at least along the coast), as they had been trading in the western Med for a long time, at least as far back as the Greeks. Broadly speaking, Greeks traded and colonized along the northern coast of the Med (aside from Cyranecia), and the Phoenicians along the North Africa and Spain coasts, with Sicily divided between them (and a cockpit for wars for centuries).
So, maybe throw in some Carthaginian kit (helmets, etc).
Also, consider looking at Balearic figs/ depictions in illustrations for inspiration- they were another island population that had a long history of contact with Greeks and Carthaginians, but maintained a distinct identity.
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If you do add Hoplites, I would go with unarmored/light hoplites for the most part, and those would mostly be the richest Sicels.
In Italy proper, hoplites had a distinct look from the Greek variety. Italian hoplites featured more open helmets, smaller breastplates, and avoiding greaves. I have heard this afforded greater mobility and detection in rough terrain. The key was to be able to move rapidly and then form phalanx quickly when needed.
In Italy, in rough terrain; the Javelin was the primary arm. The focus was a bit more on close range shooting due to the terrain. Even Etruscan hoplites made use of Javelins within the Phalanx to soften up enemies (not unlike Dark Age shield wall combat), potentially leading to the famous Roman version of the Pila.