Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Freddy on January 08, 2023, 12:59:35 PM
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I do not know if the term "missed like the dysentery epidemic in the leper colony" exists in your native langue, in mine it does. And that is exactly how I felt when one of my firends introduced me into Team Yankee- another project on the top of my existing ones. I collect this topic in 1/35
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=139242.0 (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=139242.0)
now I have to do it in 1/100 too. Long story short, the goal is a contingent of the Hungarian Peoples Army, and for now I use the content of the starter boxes. It does not exist officially, for starters I will handle it as a Soviet one with restricted choice of units. Then we will see.
Part of the lure was giving me the Soviet side of the basic starter box, these are the models I used for testing the painting. One of the upsides of 1/100 vs 1/35 is that painting is very simple:
-black basecoat
-Tamiya NATO Dreen drybrush, followed by a Death World Forest drybrush on the upper sides
-Mud colour drybrush on the lower parts (whatever, I used GW Baneblade Brown)
-light silver drybrush on the tracks
And you are basically there, add some more details for the fun- gun covers, track guards, figures, etc. These 3 are painted as Soviet vehicles, Hungary did not use T-64s. I also have the two starter boxes half-built, I will paint them with this method, maybe I will choose some other green.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjFUSZc52MkdUd9kC6IxEq1W0Dc05VrxdfNkyub_YpT-GICIaTfYTvpvDoxEkdaV8bSwivg71Pc_F0zojkuikowaFKGTQ2XSXxe4BEN6ErajalbNMHgTsmIN6dVrxbVa5NFBkBYqN1fTra0MUeoFX7b0FYbhTvPBYk0zwfYndC-89ERc-INk45wLs7f/w760-h250/T-64_1p100_1.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh30wXerUyqu8bGmbfJKYi8xRlWSoMFyHtsuQGhhPyeALeMprqBOdy3l4tDPo5i0kGwLYClWl2rMeoF3dxOROgiWgUb_WilfaPTz-0irWeDbkyHTZo0AvhOJc7hagJF3w8dibJ1RXNZtp6dfCdEmVchL_vAtIW3V0v7WHp-v_p3KI9S-wDZNwCFBgtp/w763-h236/T-64_1p100_2.jpg)
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Looking good, I like the dark green.
A member on the unofficial Team Yankee Facebook group did an army list for the Hungarians, I can link a copy here if you'd like to take a look?
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Lovely painting!
Re 1980s Hungarians:
In terms of vehicles, Hungary was quite markedly different to the Soviets. Their main tank type was the T-55 (no fancy upgraded versions such as the T-55AM), though they received a trickle of T-72M during the 1980s; by 1982 the 11th TD had upgraded a single battalion and by 1986 a whole regiment had been converted. By 1989 the entire 11th TD was equipped with T-72M, as had the independent 1st Tank Brigade.
All their Motor Rifle Regiments were wheeled at the start of the 1980s, using the four-wheeled D-994 PSzH-IV APC and consequently very weak rifle-sections. Only three MRRs (one each in the 11th TD, 4th MRD & 8th MRD) became tracked during the mid-1980s, with the adoption of BMP-1. So no BTR variants, BMP-1P or BMP-2.
Scout cars were all turretless D-442 FUG, carrying a small dismountable element, though some units converted to D-994 PSzH-IV. So no BRDM scout cars, though 9P110 (BRDM-1) & 9P122 (BRDM-2) 'Sagger' vehicles were used by the regimental AT Companies.
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Thank you!
A member on the unofficial Team Yankee Facebook group did an army list for the Hungarians, I can link a copy here if you'd like to take a look?
I am interested for sure. I know one version, a quality work of high standard, but with some factual mistakes coming from using plans rather than actual army organizations of the period (the most critical being that Hungary never had any BTR60s save some command and radio versions)
Re 1980s Hungarians:
In terms of vehicles, Hungary was quite markedly different to the Soviets. Their main tank type was the T-55 (no fancy upgraded versions such as the T-55AM), though they received a trickle of T-72M during the 1980s; by 1982 the 11th TD had upgraded a single battalion and by 1986 a whole regiment had been converted. By 1989 the entire 11th TD was equipped with T-72M, as had the independent 1st Tank Brigade.
All their Motor Rifle Regiments were wheeled at the start of the 1980s, using the four-wheeled D-994 PSzH-IV APC and consequently very weak rifle-sections. Only three MRRs (one each in the 11th TD, 4th MRD & 8th MRD) became tracked during the mid-1980s, with the adoption of BMP-1. So no BTR variants, BMP-1P or BMP-2.
Scout cars were all turretless D-442 FUG, carrying a small dismountable element, though some units converted to D-994 PSzH-IV. So no BRDM scout cars, though 9P110 (BRDM-1) & 9P122 (BRDM-2) 'Sagger' vehicles were used by the regimental AT Companies.
Yes, along these lines. I have the T-72 battalion box and the BMP battalion box, these are a good start for MN (Magyar Néphadsereg- Hungarian People's Army).
-Su-25s never were used, though there was a plan to buy a company of them, cancelled in the last minute. In some contemporary Western literature it is presented as a fact, I once even saw a colur scheme
-T-72-s come without ERA. Hungarian Army has exactly one of those, bought from Belarus in te early 90s. The rest are basic versions.
-BMP-1s. Hungary had no BMP-2s, only a single turret as a demonstrator tool. The motorized rifles had either BMP-1-s or the Csepel PSZHs mentioned- BTR-80s still serving today arrived in the early 90s as a compensation for the Russian state debt.
-T-55s I built as AMs, MN had quite a few, but yes, in the mid 80s most of the tanks were T-55s without any upgrade. In the 90s all of them were wasted in favour of a great T-72 bundle from various sources. Along with a general big disarmament. The last T-34-s were scrapped in 1994, in the mid80s they still might have had some training purposes, most of them were sold to Ethiopia.
-BRDMs with AA and AT missiles are cool
-Infantry used the local versions of 7,62mm AKs, so I have to cut the long compensators from the Russian figures, otherwise in this scale they will pass. I might sculpt some more MN soldiers, I want this for a quick side project, bt I have a reputation to maintain :) RPGs were RPG7s, this meant a lower firepower than the Soviets also having grenade launcers and RPG-18s, might worth to note that Hungary had a very successful (in the Lebanese wars :) ) AK version AMP-69 capable of launcing a powerful rifle grenade, but this was mainly the weapon of the Munkásőrség (Worker Guard), the communist party militia intended for hinterland service (a cool modeling project though...)
-Mi-24s are cool
-also Su-22s. Hungary had the rare M3 version, a slightly different rear section, but for an 1/144 game model its ok.
I will need some artillery, from the current range BM-21s, 2S1s and 2S3s will be it.
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Excellent! I've long wanted to do a Hungarian army, but my Warpac armies stalled after doing Soviet, East German and Polish.
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I've thrown the Hungarian Team Yankee document into Google Drive - you should be able to access it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwOAM_exX1LtdSQgSMYeNwcTBKvQuk42/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwOAM_exX1LtdSQgSMYeNwcTBKvQuk42/view?usp=sharing)
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I've thrown the Hungarian Team Yankee document into Google Drive - you should be able to access it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwOAM_exX1LtdSQgSMYeNwcTBKvQuk42/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwOAM_exX1LtdSQgSMYeNwcTBKvQuk42/view?usp=sharing)
Thanks! I am not able to reach it, I requested access.
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approved now, sorry about that!
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approved now, sorry about that!
Thanks, I checked it. Yes, this is the one I also got from the Hungarian historical wargame fb group, not bad, but needs some rework. Dropping the BTR60s for starters :)
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Ah, no worries!
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My first 15mm sculpt WIP, Hungarian soldier for Team Yankee. Whoa man, these are small.
(https://i.ibb.co/FXBT2QH/Honved-1p100-1-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/ccBVj4k/Honved-1p100-1-1.jpg)
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Getting there with the figure:
(https://i.ibb.co/TWf6cqb/Honved-1p100-1-3.jpg)
I also basecoated the "army", made a photo from the ground forces before that:
(https://i.ibb.co/Ry99GQH/Team-Yankee-project-1.jpg)
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Getting there with the figure:
Ready for casting.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgW30zD_TR-qv_GHLMP4oIL6YsIjnwv-eClrivd9Q5vcEuG8HIRcJHSkPcIUv_Mvx2pR_PV38kY8YeRczH7q0od3ZZ-8Yjom6G3Hsg9ZsijVrkwTvwpp1kApfi6L7qdOJ75ILzA8N-gzkN_wnHVJ634tUZLU6LGYiEOgk5YDZ3Z0_lsh1RZqblz-9Np/w534-h397/Honved_1p100_1_0.JPG)
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Nice job so far. Love the tanks! Well done!
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Nice job so far. Love the tanks! Well done!
Thank you! To be honest, 15mm is not my favourite scale to sculpt- it is simply too small!
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A small company of T-72s (the full company was 10, this is 7). They were painted like the T-64s, I just used different greens.
The marking was a bit tricky, in peacetime the MN used the same system of three digit numbers as the Soviets and sometimes unit markings (small geometrical shapes next to the numbers). National insignia was intended to be used only in wartime- in the peaceful reality on parades and Warsaw Pact international maneuvers. But in that latter cases sometimes the rest of the markings were removed.
I wanted numbers and national insignia too, so I took inspiration from post-1989 painting schemes where national insignia is commonly used (just not this red star shaped one but a red-white-green arrow used during ww2 on planes). There is a great variety on where exactly place the markings to, the turret of the T-72 is pretty messy, lacking flat vertical surfaces, so sometimes the numbers were added onto the turret boxes, or even onto the rubber sideskirts.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEggGALvKPg-vLuJwx57ArXjzy-XibCD9gkJ9INekx8Uc__dxBnXJ59yryVof6cpDNVfZi6w0FGvM9Oi7TIhUatR8v41ODYRCF-7k4OBknUtB72XG6h-rxOFLwDHtFAf7XBaT-uNbZ5F61sdt5iHOvsRkTAWYA4tKlcZCsyXpT6WXOXuiBo7Mp7Ts0pv/w768-h374/T-72_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgiHegpa-FZrDzU2AcKQP2TLbZAy_BbWRSs9lslzVT-Ch0Bgsy49iKe0GLpdhPr4ewo_MS5IkGcrn2szDoMzGgrLVMDKSWyEWr7RCQ5eHCJM6T3epNGv6GRDImyeQW4CNQpEuaihtIuDKilN9pHv8ZdEdAGuJEB1CkwKR1mhVg5x_SPY26YswxO_pZK/w749-h375/T-72_1p100_2.JPG)
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Excellent stuff! I'm really looking forward to seeing this project progress. Are you planning to do some of the more esoteric vehicles such as the FUG or PSzH IV?
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Excellent stuff! I'm really looking forward to seeing this project progress. Are you planning to do some of the more esoteric vehicles such as the FUG or PSzH IV?
Thanks! The most important now is to paint everything I have, then buy those stuff I need and still do not have (Gophers, Shilkas, Grad, 2s1 and 2s3). Then could come the more esoteric things where I need to scratchbuild.
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Thanks! The most important now is to paint everything I have, then buy those stuff I need and still do not have (Gophers, Shilkas, Grad, 2s1 and 2s3). Then could come the more esoteric things where I need to scratchbuild.
Have you seen BPM's FUG and PSzH models? They're excellent (particularly if you get the new-fangled resin-printed versions). I've got a load of their SKOT variants and really like them.
QRF also do the FUG and PSzH, but I think they're out of production at the moment.
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Have you seen BPM's FUG and PSzH models? They're excellent (particularly if you get the new-fangled resin-printed versions). I've got a load of their SKOT variants and really like them.
QRF also do the FUG and PSzH, but I think they're out of production at the moment.
Wow, thanks, not yet. I will check them.
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Wow, thanks, not yet. I will check them.
:D
Here you go. Note that you want the standard turretless FUG for the Hungarians, not the turreted OT-65A used by the Czechs. Note also that BPM tend to use the old-style filament prints for the catalogue photos, which is a shame as the resin-printed models are far better than the ones shown:
https://www.butlersprintedmodels.co.uk/15mm/15mm/post-ww2/15mm/post-ww2/other-nations/fug-15mm.html
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Nice, thanks! I have them in 1/35, but not built yet. Maybe the NBC-version of the FUG is still in service.
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Nice, thanks! I have them in 1/35, but not built yet. Maybe the NBC-version of the FUG is still in service.
Good question. Some sources say that Hungary still has some, while others say not. They've possibly still got some in deep war reserve stocks somewhere, hence their inclusion on some lists, but they don't seem to be in use.
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I'd dearly love an affordable PSzH IV in some sort of 28mm. That way my NVA can double as Grenztruppen in their take over of West Berlin. The BPM seem to be the only option but the resin version is a small mortgage. Strange choice for an APC given it's tiny carrying capacity.
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Strange choice for an APC given it's tiny carrying capacity.
In the 60s the Soviets invented the concept of mechanized infantry, this meant that all the troop transport trucks were to be changed for APCs asap. This was a huge task even for the Soviet industry, so despite they usually were a great fan of standarditzation, they allowed every country to take care of their own. Our industry back then was producing the Csepel 344 truck in large quantities, so the easiest soulution was to use this as a base. Which, of course, limited the cargo capacity, but was at least a quick solution.
Good question. Some sources say that Hungary still has some, while others say not. They've possibly still got some in deep war reserve stocks somewhere, hence their inclusion on some lists, but they don't seem to be in use.
Went through my picture collection, the pics from the last 20 years are either restaurated private owned vehicles or target practice pieces, so I guess there is none in active service.
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I meant it was an odd choice for the East German Border Guards. The NVA had BTR-60s and BTR-70s in its inventory, with more capability as troop carriers. The PsZH IV was pretty cramped and able to carry only 6 passengers.
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I meant it was an odd choice for the East German Border Guards. The NVA had BTR-60s and BTR-70s in its inventory, with more capability as troop carriers. The PsZH IV was pretty cramped and able to carry only 6 passengers.
I get that, my opinion is that as the lack of APC manufacturing capacity affected the entire WP, this was more of a business rather than a military choice, they simply could not get more BTRs and BMPs. I have a book about WP military industry, I will check.
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Hungarian mech infantry company. I had to remove the models with GP-25s and RPG-18s, and I cut the nozzles of the AKs to make them to AKMs, otherwise it is just the painting. I also added some copies of my sculpt shown above.
The box did not contain any PKM-s (only RPK-s), also missing the missile backpacks for the RPG-s, these I plan to add later.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEht0wlJr14CSLeUlDN6uHKgABpOsFYa_q0Nr3OVvn6o4AusHtlf-bvdJ7aYCwsheas0t3le8E3IUoD4q-zMa6-NnstHYPNLmMhKKkzV-5xONm8mZLnLhVEAT6vfAUVvzpyf96YUbt-FI9WOWoKYN1kCVlX4uJhDVRld50hyxwLWrdGgEhpW6lPqC9dD/w707-h360/G%C3%A9pes%C3%ADtettl%C3%B6v%C3%A9sz-sz%C3%A1zad1_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh_3XGH1NyEnbQt3G2JMUumNYYzMJxY0UfgC71dHQVtC4i6F8yuNcIi432xCfL9RhyywE3sBf_bq6OARiKBKKmxTPQwLC2LFH0lt-gBOaiAqNr-OWp7CDCko0p0Bx6FhauIehmegTrEB6YfYMAUzJGBzhRXSOwIuj4peETGK-j3byKmGKHm_e5bkLuc/w749-h437/G%C3%A9pes%C3%ADtettl%C3%B6v%C3%A9sz-sz%C3%A1zad1_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiDe9uTTTAkoeUC1A8Og0gKH8HMaYaznZFBFDyE0Jf9IHiuIL64dpJFlKctn_OsT_AmVUWg-ZacN63b8Glj7A-Mj_NLJcgvrCanWwXvitYLsnGEktXv6JQhPTuSjlyMh9KzxX1kWKlEF4_VhHDQU9mXE5R1PT78uXfewq8xXbEXnHqIeMJKNrXugNp_/w706-h397/G%C3%A9pes%C3%ADtettl%C3%B6v%C3%A9sz-sz%C3%A1zad1_3.JPG)
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Nicely done. Always good to see some lesser seen WP forces.
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That infantry and the T-72s all look good. Well done!
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Thanks, guys! I am now painting the T-55s.
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Thanks, guys! I am now painting the T-55s.
Done. Tomorrow they will have their first battle.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjtOgSaHZmfehLFZdYKthkaDbDMB2ls3aq979XDf9oaaJODl6R1d5xrYlsgqv68vHgx_8O1HJ-ntAaStAOXd87wFSVtjkQdykrgUiHZ0KXJeakI9P7U7V6RGyQnBi-1wlnoxR2iNUHP5pWweKJUAogIS9XeeNm8TzbBLF6F9ITWH8NX6BOO3vvaXWh1/w785-h295/T-55AM_1p100_1.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjRW-0wzPwk4aPz91YHKZS2m1tVDkk7akmgx-nek-SYomYQxO3Zo8dkiOKIawb0eCOc_z1_nbnBIodDQVu2Yb8bMyb_Zn2jk791YvXX9hCO3ZWaY3FW0tyPTd1vI8tBMCEQob7lmpcC9Vtr0FRvnBDu7V4pESQ_jG-y0-MFjAujaCZAGEiuwpvkI7Pl/w705-h313/T-55AM_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgoCrwKJsfScj9iPyR70ZHVWDnGHhHPSHgBcgVAySt4jHcBvDArU0G84aDvmklcHEXOYJuyZ8rdC0_WjpJdI_VBh0N4GpK0wXmZxTzotl8M6cUPvSZ1P9mAcjGnYppkd7lK_4W7QibCsnAykDnAasteKKUgTUXyqHet9NPcV5QLEwhVHQ-FVR9ZI-WO/w706-h362/T-55AM_1p100_3.jpg)
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Looking good. I wonder how they'll fare in battle....
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Looking good. I wonder how they'll fare in battle....
Thank you!
I am a little afraid about them, T-55 not being the best tank in the WP arsenal regarding 1985 :)
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Nicely done, right down to the Hungarian specific thermal sleeves on the varrels! Impressed!
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Nicely done, right down to the Hungarian specific thermal sleeves on the varrels! Impressed!
Thank you!
The BMP-1-s were also done.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgoplPQAyce5N-F4hcry0zKfNR2DxXaC3Dsx-xaa4KjtEjjv4LMQaFXUjZ8Z_zr0QSmH5455JAmyTHNC72rONoO4q8qjK39GChM_dgKqS9lDmAo_oYHX5OpiJQJR9qRjLGzUYPp9g4qxHRjKXlgvlcpvXOHuWRYyDSrXvxw80ue3eUdlPwDDozI9z9C/w680-h321/BMP-1_1p100_3.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjwyBua_3g8KGtRT6m_ckuYrLRrWG4YOZ3fEiVn7cj9w7LtTEoMcBtVTzaqp2eFDVcDz4X82iiWM5BM8vhYk1LdMiR8HdM4axIapPv9HDHhqJIvwYC4Nii7YLgZk0wok0NrrAzT3Fqin-6HJu_5zOdSFwEZBCWcOd5F0LX9HehaJ2cM7tidocKjnlOg/w598-h340/G%C3%A9pes%C3%ADtettl%C3%B6v%C3%A9sz-sz%C3%A1zad1_1p100_5.JPG)
We also had the big battle against the imperialist Bundesrepublik Deutschland trying to destroy the great achievements of the peaceful working people of the Hungarian Peoples Republic marching on the glorious road towards Socialism.
It was an interesting one, man, the Leo2s are dangerous. Also, my tanks are pretty weak, infantry dug in in craters was the most resilient part of my army. I need some more tanks, also I have to complete the air force to have something effective against the Leo2s.
Also some terrain, the club has only 28mm terrain, we just used what also fits 1/100.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhpad3Z4dfvYbSzAs4ee_RZXkAwvOQlaMZ8kihsuppXGISmAogkL7ld3_wfRPSWxQ1aWhQYF_1UCf9Rc4gAGzOMipacnxkYI3rlvEdljQgfTr1__qT_5Gtbd4mj2Ycolz9jS5Urwm_z3o77XDw5ta0auXbeHNB5AikzM6OgiCTO1pRD64UJ01aSSn_E/w518-h920/TYww3_Cs1_001.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh3lm1kHgkb0kGf_5inqw7oMSSuTmSDj6UkT_TdFaUbH0gPjf6dBDT7s0MT_LpbGgX_RyvKpX3MFb-_AhObmWb-sC5TgUub-GwUsQbZBq3LzlJc61NNS0xiLrJwLSSvRSzGDjWwRUK-hE4Ui2wXanPXqj5P44Y49z4bxHDQZO9c6-fJ8YnkDsziUdpI/w715-h402/TYww3_Cs1_005.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEibK8Bd-tcPvbaRQN9pv1uok0bgouIzpJqpHDlwrJ3NG2C01iljY_xySp6clT0SRtNMjLxLznH8sUIOWhFczEpKPpdE4HRpFqKls5v03iUTxA1bCLqqXwRDMQ_0zsUmPQDRNkckM3Hdkc4cssdTOkIpo5bri9xMCFGtfhcDQEigxEfm9lzBLVlL6_g0/w489-h869/TYww3_Cs1_004.jpg)
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Impressive looking force :)
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T72s and BMPs vs. Leo2s? Ugh....
Nice pics, however!
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Thank you, guys!
T72s and BMPs vs. Leo2s? Ugh....
Yep. I literally do not have anything now that has even a mathematical chance of penetrating that beast from the front, while all my stuff is basically autokill for Leo2s.
The catch however is that enormous effectiveness comes with an enormous point cost, this was a 71 pts battle and the two Leo2s (not two squadrons- two tanks) cost 34pts, so two tanks make half the force. And the rest is far from impressive, Leo1s are no match for my tanks. I need some clever tactics, otflanking or outmaneuvering the Leo2s somehow, either by my far superior numbers, or by the air force which now I am painting.
Btw the battle ended in a draw, the Leo2s made a big massacre but the rest of the German panzers were killed by the Hungarian tanks.
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Don't worry. By the time the Leo 2's have gone through the preceding waves of Soviets and Czechs they'll be out of ammo. :D
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Don't worry. By the time the Leo 2's have gone through the preceding waves of Soviets and Czechs they'll be out of ammo. :D
Oh, with their side armour of 13, there is place for a less suicidal approach. Casualities are unavoidable though ;D
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You could spot them on the battle picture, but now I have proper pictures of the BRDMs too. The Hungarian vehicles got their vehicle numbers painted on their sides only after the political system changing, in the Cold War times they rolled only with their license plate numbers painted on the front and (with bigger letters) on the back.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEghE1T5pghT7ifCp7ufablxvB2W3MnEYm8XfN1upLfrZKjdo44QgpaYsnXQWLReGbpPBuz87aTR_7vRLY7OxKSpwR_hChAMqZLSkD7CF-oiT6rl_WaYUr0IFGrC2rFKGFPViCv9Zyd07SnpAB2kcn5J83NvVIfv_LeVImDPoSGiHfEB2mCuDeBjqvn1/w558-h316/BRDM_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEix3WYQ9clqMacI1kJRbCUsywk9LLA8lwQtM6IBgYe6H7jj93bFqQ2qwPsqLa2XA3B1qMorAvaKj-mxspKPtK_DaLERicnvPNVCRARgS5dPt8FcoDy1dsQfiJBEuiy-n1ARbjALely5_njupync-T-hfDWDmvyX9GF1JY-LMFQaghNODS5o8RK1T1k5/w597-h343/BRDM_1p100_3.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjE-2Ki5TnBxTDoz3aLnKfD5CDHamLWQBR9cVT_eLgqxqG1HsUKAKNTxyQNghsS73cOozbdtmGjLE7SripvT5FIwQWo4qrlgKquNMNdeAqnPEQWMqnL4c5s4gk0FJXNJWHMVufjQnO3K_anwRZ9A9jVn8DEsc8qh7ryzkDq7kmttYQlLfQfORA_mIYH/w707-h338/BRDM_1p100_5.JPG)
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The two Su-22s. Hungary had one company (12 one seaters and 3 trainers) of these between 1984-97. They were the rare M3 variant using the R-29BS-300 engine, which meant that the end part of the fuselage was a bit fatter. In 1/144 (that is the scale of fixed wing aircraft in the Team Yankee boxes) it really does not matter (I also have one in 1/72). The markings are the 1/144 Hungarian decal sheet from HADModels, I like their decals in general, but not this one, the signals have to be made with different coloured components, they are not printed onto each other.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUY8gRVi4gJ_DmVtQepSa_I__hKjpetsf0kFRSErO8sKAeeSNpMHwhxBRwSzPdIvtsP4clAPmafw3lT1GZH672cSoPh-8Ks_9iKRzKYRMBp-JF8pP0Bk4OdVIkx6_8spI5kcU7vEW8VDdEO_Fcsb5zHl-0iThHbIgJe8N9c6X8Htn2QKDFZMmQmf2X/w552-h438/Szu-22_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgedQ5-UuYZo7z4b92JePyJ6fxJb5lvlOQGHdaIn2p5tzwukABLMqo4KKo_MoGAyHChCqKydRE58_mwVv74hQf9RNiM1khGiJ3n570K0AHp9-yxMIhLCxxud4khrzneiOfLjDbMrEvPA5UKIrle7bZsNKrr-PgyhIqTWc94WRSJovAs7f4VqE0NzvVy/w610-h461/Szu-22_1p100_2.JPG)
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Great looking collection!
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Beautiful Fitters! :-*
Great to see this collection developing.
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Thank you, guys! The rest is coming soon.
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Mi-24s. These started to arrive to Hungary in the late 70s, originally they had this Russian camo scheme. The green-yellow scheme they served for 30 years with came later, with their Hungarian industrial renovation. These renovations began right in the mid 80s (for Russian aircraft there is a fixed cycle for these), but the latest arrived helicopters got the Russian camo till the 90s. So, for the mid 80s of TY I had to give them the Russian camo.
The models themselves are 1/100 scale from the TY box, I built them with the wheels out so they can land. I think these have the most parts of all TY models, but still not too difficult to assembe compared to a regular 1/72 model. It helps to paint the weapons separately though.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgTUlTJEHWVB6NweuHoMI4c_DvuHCd-wA3ya48EQo6loZuEwwGAmYr4TAnxoY5PJAcoTa-A_OPMHYWGvI0XLE1sUO7dYnzv5m2SYeGBpE5ZgAPzQCIP_dFTAol59_7KCEiEf75XC67fSC6fWtb4mreXnxZ1O4G5O1FhiYUJwqRIHIN9utkpilcDayWW/w639-h431/Mi-24_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjI86_bhGbtm1yK0pNX9iT8wvNnoZu9YEZ4G2TufG7tuW6OEH2qO20zbKcm9xPs5vmjDIgZLN5Zuc5LRBTYhTp4ohvDh-plYSza-V-9jaYiS1iX0_eAGC_fXhAgp7ybIB3cxbDFZZ9MqMIFbXIiYKW8FNMFKz6A0F-fdh9ibg67dZvF6AhMPRhf-6y2/w602-h369/Mi-24_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhyv-YS__izdEG8WbowpFgPYPnDLs-jL2wMGpf-UB00T-CQLAacWHYSm3XfNVuAyAimwWREJEbB60RrBqacSe-55YD6inJ_P1oGG3RKcAl9yWb_pfNKUedtnPpx5w0hnQo8KE_pF0ix-4kXJNqkhh1Ug3H8HuZnZATsnhS5nTMqStqMlnY5gWPwniLO/w639-h425/Mi-24_1p100_3.JPG)
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Very nice. I have two of those in 1/48 scale sitting in the stash. About time I put them together.
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Nice heli's.
I've got some of my own to paint but I've not done camo for about 40 years and suspect mine would look just las if my 10yo self had painted them.
What's your method??
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Thank you, guys!
I have two of those in 1/48 scale sitting in the stash. About time I put them together.
I have another one in 1/72, this is having the yellow-green camo scheme i mentioned above (plus the post-1989 markings). Also a Mi-24A in Soviet colours, waiting to be completed- these will be used in the 1/35 project.
(https://i.ibb.co/bj0WyCQ/Mi-24-4.jpg)
I've got some of my own to paint but I've not done camo for about 40 years and suspect mine would look just las if my 10yo self had painted them.
I also paint with a normal brush, I do not have an airbrush. No big tricks though.
-Paint more thin layers rather than one thick one, and do not be afraid to use a big brush.
-If you can (the pattern allows), always paint the lighter colour first.
-If you do not want sharp edges, use diluted paint to imitate the edges of the sprayed spots (overspraying is minimal even in 1:1, modelers overdo it for the feel. In 1/100 I just painted sharp edges.)
-spots with different shines are ugly. When you are done, cover the entire stuff with one layer of lacquer to make an unified shine. I just use GW Purity Seal spray. Also helps to make the decals more resilient.
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Thanks I'll give that a go.
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Conversions of my soldier from the first page. On the right there is one wearing field cap, on the left there is one from the Worker Guard (Munkásőrség). Worker Guard was a communist militia formed after the 1956 revolution, the communists saw that the soldiers sided with the people (it was called Peoples Army after all...), so they made an explicitly communist militia. Part-time soldiers, a bit like the USA National Guard, they had mostly light weapons (some RPGs and mortars), their task was to protect important buildings and factories, secure key infrastructure, fight against enemy infiltrators and, above all, against civilian unrest. As the country lived peacefully, in the reality they acted mostly as auxiliary police, maintanining veterinary quarantines, fighting against natural disasters, searching missing persons and such things. They were disbanded after the political system changing.
I would like to make a unit of them for Team Yankee, as a mobilised reserve force they will use civilian vehicles, a chance to paint something that is not green :)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjS_EnOeiaOQ_vk_h87RHSyLlGvd6NMpiZJ6aRngePjJ08X6oBrPzbC7GmFehlamTOdJSV9vJTO2Vw8yDHoE_mW-NB7VIRLJrZvUbjoUjjr-B0P0OpC4TqDkf0lZAvzb-I1g4LljT8MfOte4Xl3zzqyB3RZ__0fQ_wIEZPehKNTmncQon_x6l47rHIe/w627-h478/Honved_1p100_2_1.JPG)
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Su-25s. There was a plan for Hungary to buy one company of these, but it never happened, so they got the Soviet markings.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgWWB487HQ9V_QEckh7Ivrs9MdQyEqESRgs283VTmB9zozXVqbs4Vyn4OtNKiCzyxiremahE_SyUcovqY2LkygKECBSpp9M0sf_SRJIGMKci5Xstgw-OzXqYzoXT91_4aC0oGIclJQMKCoetHgLsLJ5q6JHtT43VtBZgPpJTO6NIjTlftdwWPt2-ykd/w609-h514/Szu-25_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvaHyWC2Yq3ZaKWqRYTiEBwRUkv2UEw6ZSDjMRjYqwJ5YBqOkE8gfG6HJwedEZc7mb4W3oOzk_CNsePHbUfvddG3B0Q8WT0cEc-ig1ONzvcyzHoMEGgXqAuPnn7312NGnfdpordXyX6qrsF4Mcr-C1Gh9UPSejB4wHqh5m9pYy0nw-Ys6QQnLUxRye/w599-h483/Szu-25_1p100_2.JPG)
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Not a welcome sight for any NATO tank commander, for sure...
But a great addition to your Magyarok! 8)
I still have a duo of F-104 Starfighters, to support my Dutch, on the desk which I really need to finish. Perhaps this week I'll be able to slap some paint on those widowmakers... ::)
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Great collection Freddy!
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Thank you, guys! Now I am done with the two starter boxes, time to add more :) Even with those two boxes, I am still not at 100pts.
Not a welcome sight for any NATO tank commander, for sure...
Oh yeah, H25 missiles are basically autokill against all tanks, my aforementioned friend commanding the imperialist West German Leo2s was really not happy when the peace loving working people of the Warsaw Pact greeted them with a salvo of H25s.
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Group pic, yay.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiACqPbQaGMIdYnjIDa2LQbqwjd9iN_mZsuvmvRPgsU7gW6IOUI9nJz3VLYVgoi1pTHx_yq8z8ut3Xi6p0ppiax2GLNmVI4Y1GG5uTdaITGXQeIRHqTglYLdJJvNRsGY0_1sVprmcLbt-7uqaLWTLvb1HUdoso3GYvun-yoEkWmeTCQ5VURAfmIsyx8/w918-h629/TeamYankee_project_2.jpg)
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Wow! Absolutely excellent and inspiring work on all.
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Those troops oughta be able to fight somebody. And they look good, too!
Well done!
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Thank you, guys! More to come :)
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Well done for sticking with the project and making such amazing army!
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Well done for sticking with the project and making such amazing army!
Thank you!
Meanwhile I bought these old MN-era badges ("Excellent soldier" and "Excellent squad leader") on a flea market, they will serve as objective markers.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjnwFxO53IodpiqQuqFrkBXXXRv5cyuJK3WPw1fnTiDMS7fx72VayI_vrU1hv6l71wfETjk11AGW0O0pAgaQ9zt8dByme_qMFvwNSOSjNlGhw2eyCegwyzv70oHmwV54qmyDBSv-CNvaoLrAgfUyMLNOb2iyeU3-YXNNzMV3bNrOLS9F24_P5iwJSanxCg/w417-h351/Jelvenyek1.JPG)
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That's a good idea !
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Yeah, that's cool!
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Great objective markers! That's inspired. Does make you wonder if there was a 'fairly indifferent soldier' or a 'decidedly blasé squad leader' badge. Beats the old '15 years of undetected crime' medal. :)
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Thanks guys! Not to praise myself, but it was a good find indeed, big enough to make a suitable objective marker yet cheap and common enough not to feel bad to use it for decorative purposes- for a Hero Of The Hungarian Peoples Republic medal it were a little bit undeserving to be used in games...
Perhaps the most interesting part of Hungarian badges history is that there were medals designed for cold-war-gone-hot, but as it was cancelled, these were never actually awarded, only a few sample pieces exist. Now those were cool to have! ...but they are out of my price range for sure:)
Great objective markers! That's inspired. Does make you wonder if there was a 'fairly indifferent soldier' or a 'decidedly blasé squad leader' badge. Beats the old '15 years of undetected crime' medal.
Fairly Average Soldier badges were provided in the form of Fairly Unfucked Exeat Scheduling. The Fairly Average Soldiers were usually happy with that.
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9K35 (Strela-10) AA vehicles. Hybrid kit of resin and metal, it was not easy to build, but I like them.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi3x2nsqYndGaOUcqvOcu1r7xeRTt279iZRbU3XA6g5YclgxJAtW-gkpdMk2zb_qBSuwzZNZXlTOyKyGW53DchLaNlwdGOUHHJObbxy3L6dF6DcrChRzDqb5HSkhrHZY_E9W7xHe9cFx1SXQe8pTdJY3I00OjCAOF92yAC5Rm8kYk1MM5UIupvWxmHOSls/w652-h310/Sztrela-10_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgtpvjmmNKSjzQ5lPwYp6kAAqYV6gc6JzBNl-2cPgBzEW4E-RWb_aLA_ESAjnm4MItCirUgYxvBaSCBtolpp-xHCFQjg4BECxSwgeT9204PcSchiiuAsv8P_5QfFoTHxITpSdpX-ZEs_XTPS3QQJpIBw8cpRgJoZY2s7sKjmcL_BWdlWmnSCft1ty8eUI4/w607-h304/Sztrela-10_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhv8Qo07RHPO3ZE7GBOaXpZvrOyJOYCzHg4z2_jAgGtMoDocaI7KIkrXHyis9shUPsLWNjhWRzASwkqEAaXuR_eNOyhUyw5lrL9IANxvmX_CbSrD3SMHCv4tWzSiNtJnt-mLcDnPq1uZwVrizylqzfeBstzk2sq8YEmalE8fy7TQJY759T-T5ybf_SWxD8/w662-h345/Sztrela-10_1p100_3.JPG)
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Also some T-55As, in the mid 80s MN still had the basic T-55s as the backbone of the tank troops, so I had to build some of these too. They are the same plastic set as the AMs, it has parts for both versions, which is really nice.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEivPUPm5dLEOvOqv9-L-pzXzcfhsQoU9egW5l0uuOhLFLyZb_Y68SsDZb1WVCpCOi4PC67ZpKzgXzSKRFWdqfAzFC2R2yfEYYPKKOFjabpWXA9B0gehpF-VZEwsWMkhYV13QiFRbWb-0PuCA_iYoOPpehn_czZ4i9N9sWQMNRCFcF2JZnkFl5vmFd1bVsY/w650-h301/T-55A_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhC6GY57akFYKfgHX-jMM4svsN-rJyXU0t-OUdyA9mXiy6h4ygk7gb2UhtaykBmX6evLUhv1HEGo7ptinczMkQgMn5gFO1tFzxBGjrhxddf3Znz39NBdQ1J52erkhiDhGageXQP2_Wk6UNjkUzOabSnR_k71ecE0mV7Gxf_Fk7hOtsJl1Jcq-95CTbMYKg/w688-h284/T-55A_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhvt6kFJjGYRjzLyK7TTtVEKw5IolvjW32vvqYwNFYreFat8O9rSI1EP5RxZaHYFmKKGZHeIbwlTXB5mBWuAOao230r1nZNm3kKCxUxEGism3iKyqB2MI32akjvNULsBvGURflWdMcPKr744IvxfNRqsmfbfuaOa8LuUX8Q4iZcL3r1zB7DJ7_Z3shbDoY/w650-h270/T-55A_1p100_3.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj2CdJtMDfARnA4HIOymOEoaHT5EDCb8zuM-l45r7gza-2UMYBL5fCV7zA5e0CCIU8sMC9N2mbnjrMKZMrnQ4OlpWFa8Y9UiunJ1HE_1JDrwm2zrLsF6m9eg0GrTzIcEl7q4IT-5MzYoSu20GC950XmrxsxEboniw_0Gp917OKCwTxm6gSmZ9JA5SL8s0M/w644-h429/T-55A_1p100_4.JPG)
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One of my favourite tanks. :-*
The contribution that Hungary made to countering such tanks should not be forgotten. During the '56 revolution a captured Soviet T-54 was driven into the British Embassy in Budapest, where it was studied quite intensively before being handed back. The information provided helped lead to the development of the L7 105mm gun which eventually equipped all of NATO and most other Soviet aligned armies at some point.
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Ooh! More tanks! Yay! :D
Lovely job on those. Well done!
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Thank you, guys!
The contribution that Hungary made to countering such tanks should not be forgotten. During the '56 revolution a captured Soviet T-54 was driven into the British Embassy in Budapest, where it was studied quite intensively before being handed back. The information provided helped lead to the development of the L7 105mm gun which eventually equipped all of NATO and most other Soviet aligned armies at some point.
The first wave of Soviets in late October came with basically late ww2 stuff, the second wave sent in on Nov 4 came with T-54s. A lot of tanks were knocked out with simple Molotov cocktails in those days, some T-54s too!
The backbone of the Hungarian tank force was made of T-34s until the mid 60s, then, in a few years, they were all replaced with these T-55s. My uncle also served on a T-55 during his military service.
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I suspect that there were probably T-34's still knocking around in training establishments, war reserve stocks and low readiness mobilisation divisions into the 1980s. That seems to have been the case with Poland and some of the other Warpac countries.
The T-54 that was motored into the British Embassy did so in the second wave. Some say with the connivance of the Hungarian Defence Minister, who had contact with the British Military Attaché and allegedly told the Brits where an abandoned T-54, low mileage, only one previous owner could be found.
The defence minister took a bullet after the revolution, the British Military Attaché was declared persona non grata by the Soviets and later received an OBE at the request of the head of military intelligence, to whom he did not, nominally at least, report. Interesting chap, he had led a tank troop in Normandy and was severely wounded. Clearly had an eye for tanky tech.
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I suspect that there were probably T-34's still knocking around in training establishments, war reserve stocks and low readiness mobilisation divisions into the 1980s. That seems to have been the case with Poland and some of the other Warpac countries.
Yes, they were kept in reserve, but most of them were sold to Ethiopia in the 80s, the last of them was cut up in 1994.
There are some still active for exhibition purposes, one of them still saw "action" during the riots of 2006. Back then the Prime Minister of the ex-communist party confessed that he lied about the economy in order to be re-elected, and the riots against him (the only real riots in Hungary since 1956) in Budapest met the 50th anniversary installations for the 1956 revolution. There was a T-34 too in the street exhibitions, and a retired, old tanker (György Horváth) knew how the pneumatic engine starter worked, and he started the tank, and drove towards the riot police line. They were scared to death and greeted the tank with a hailstorm of rubber bullets and tear gas, which, obviously, meant no harm as it was a fckn tank! When the T-34 was very close to the police line, the driver decided that he does not want to crush the policemen, and stopped. He was beaten by the riot police (thus being the only one injured in the tank rampage) and got 1 year 4 months of suspended prison time for traffic violations and car theft. Riot police got a couple of RPG squads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRFU-iULtDg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRFU-iULtDg)
The defence minister took a bullet after the revolution,
Yes, Pál Maléter, great hero in Hungary. He was an officer in ww2 Hungarian Army, later turned against the Germans and led a partizan squad. He became the founder of the post-ww2 Hungarian Army, and at the start of the 1956 revolution rode atop his personal command T-34 to crush the revolution in an army unit. When he got there, he decided to side with his soldiers, and became the Defence Minister in the revolutionary government. He went to negotiate with the Soviets about a ceasefire, and he knew that it was risky, but he said it is his duty to try otherwise the Soviets will claim that negotiations are blocked from the Hungarian side. Those who warned him were right, instead the negotiations, the Soviets captured the delegation, and yes, later he was executed.
I have two Hungarian T-34s in 1/35, the first one bears the early 50s insignia, the other one is from the 60-70-80s with the new insignia you can see on my little tanks too. In the 50s ground forces had this white circle type, the red-white-green star was only used in the air force. I do not know why they changed it, my bet is on that it was very similar to the Yugoslavian insignia. Well, the red-white-green star is similar to the Bugarian red-green-white star, but at least the Bulgarians were allies.
Maybe I will do some in 1/100 too, ww2 Soviet ranges surely have some.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEhtXKhEsIeoaZ-SmStO3a8aKOqwRJA-iwLSb1rqEeNuMMgE-zaYT7i-q1NVj32L7J7BbG6ZluD8aFmICaXGVLT9XZDLNgNprGgkD6zi-xZUOH4z0mNUNv2ugPDc5xAdjJEPpWU5xbmCvC_HT5zTZFNqjRoPg4yE0BzginARtZAaJ2MtVZ5X36wlc_qH=w557-h289)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEg4FXbUFIfYL-4dZckGnCSeJVe6rlDhqvo3QW8UxEsWcVTI14SiCfAzN_7VxttEuEgefGVGn2KXqpvfGcfUceRl2H0J_DnEcNtTw9qVunpXK3OZem9cpquPoGtBUwyxP9LCYFm26MwmYZ2qs-F_b4-P3tAy2_lnbYY_3xOrU8ofVxCaOAx2pSYjkyyQ=w652-h395)
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Two Shilka AA vehicles.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxcFpjEDinUEEcc_T6Z6iu4j5PB77Al5CBtva3rKtIr14j8EJWZGBiZWrjqUvhKruwqdextUHXSyKzuSLXhLtvBc5WLJjmVhzpvVxQfByeZIX_fBeadjTR27HlVoywJ3XGNH3uKxSGz5AlCf7vdg4XbvHnLpX9sJDyU7MNMfQesQ_DjvP3D061qVcrLn0/w597-h336/Shilkak_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjgsNtfj9ku97WJFnoMfbybLrA4OIAPmeDQ7cp3CzTAzM1bs4yy5eJu3Lyx89aHf5IluO12IwZ3x7Wtr0vT6H5Ks-qjqy68R6ocwfiyqlbd8h0zpACMgKGP96yGcQnC4ix7ZcJoDu8dEM8NsQO3rARJ0BGmJOK_sa7-39ve01AadH9WYP3zzCzQtu2Yck/w581-h374/Shilkak_1p100_1.JPG)
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More nice additions to the collection. Well done.
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Good looking Shilkas.
Fifty years on they still look like something from Sci-Fi. Admittedly it's 1970 era UFO type sci-fi but sci-fi none the less.
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Very nice.
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Thank you, guys!
Fifty years on they still look like something from Sci-Fi. Admittedly it's 1970 era UFO type sci-fi but sci-fi none the less.
Indeed, the Shilka turret has that Star Wars Original Trilogy look :) In Afghanistan the Soviets removed the radar to store more ammo for convoy escort, that way it really looked like an UFO.
As for most cold war era MN tech, it is hard to catch one with proper markings. The numbers were painted (if they were) on that turret side panel, which is really hard to replicate on the overdone surface features of the 1/100 model. I tried my best.
I also have one Hungarian Shilka in 1/35, an old Dragon model. This one I built without tactical numbers.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjazfBXlnHX4kqeezUiz-1gGl5t76SRtHNLaqnFd3if6amzea9hfA99lTWx07bF-giF7k1RGjAdZtalChLToOrm0ogPgbHwBMqUZNXhlNOJaCyA2kFfljr9D-FSkzkGJ5SodvZdqQUGz6BLOBd5gcpcw93ETZes-8mtlFvHcp-w-AQlw8kdDGJAMjEyLKI/w719-h573/Shilka_mod.JPG)
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Lovely project! Great to see how you gave the army a distinctive Hungarian look.
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Lovely project! Great to see how you gave the army a distinctive Hungarian look.
Thank you! Being a long-time collector of the topic in 1/35, I also have a lot of source material for the painting schemes.
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2S1s:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiL-jsfac8p-CyEwTs72uPqSA7fpxD6ApDauyt1KN7_n2OE_lcsXCPUBELc800DEMWk2-LJvHnni7lJh0wzKTcxnFK4T_CY-PNza2bllciPk5cy3favDZO0LvuETvjX28s8v1Lam1yeBTYxl5ty6G_MsYBwAnxuL-8i-KlSEQktHWJjWW5fHXzQMDibFiA/w694-h308/2Sz1_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhZU7xBA72Xk4upPwEoQbdZEgFPmB3jpg8qZwm-uXMTK2o5gIr6z2tfWNTuOiXfcMsCy0h0Yq5avEAlsPIrZPfhYBl5k4D3xrLhZI4PBvTw-b0wkhcsCqoETJWKP1A_79T4iGaNunS4NtpApbM7FYMRvdu2Yh6ZXzxDZq9abJWRbJU1D9TQ4BIGdTmGLSo/w662-h317/2Sz1_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjkHuqGGtCppz_m9LuHDJ0MzVAzejZVDQyhb8WDkj6p2hT9ZFEaHJFP6__zbPf5WuSkIJOk1njGeFeXLTRkGxw-qb7xS_JVuLM9l1XvjP9Iuvv6RzNWdwP7Qr7afsyK4GdtBpZOCwXV7YXFxi1PgvpfvEPnHiTMfqJg_n3pS0cbCFXIpB361q26_tbjnQQ/w693-h319/2Sz1_1p100_3.JPG)
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2S3 Akaciyas:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj39Vl8OrE6QrTO3F_hbl9Ab3wbS75RvFqGP5wMjOvjbXyg0zw-b0xkYS0l6tEpmlTPrvpRZdj8T6ChFMM9Ei6Q9Hjmlw_FWzKpXk6CA9j9D6_MD2jtPDfYl_NARCfzDzARmXabIihCrqKdbgwI2LZFn9N9WzLxp4Y0IYS2o8RkxcnLggDndUaCQ3NDPuA/w783-h387/2Sz3_1p100_2.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhh9lrGs_T557Z0ezEiuwW4iF0xFj9SmXY8q9wZTWtTOGyl2enTOaPJW4p6ZDAtSZ73rdVSHTbPgBt4a-WYBzfllvlMqrTQ4z6ANlAGMHYpep_3f8tPV0ggi7UsMG9opA2TASelLbpAEm3d23usA3PGOvk1dc2xfOtDQGDtDMnj2QMjBl8oRezg4HQZYGA/w718-h368/2Sz3_1p100_3.JPG)
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Nice.
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Lovely floral theme you have going there.
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Thank you guys! I do not plan to go throught the entire Soviet artillery flora (Tulpan heavy mortar, etc :) as only these two SPGs were used in the Hungarian Peoples Army. I finally managed to put my hands onto an Iraqi card set for the game, now I can properly use the "old" T-55s (they do not have Soviet cards) and introduce the ZU-57-2 too.
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Two ZsU-57-2s, I like these, it is rare in modern armour to go with open crew compartment, but the model is designed nicely. In the Hungarian army they usually had white numbers, some instances with the insignia are known, I painted them like that. They were nicknamed "Büszke" (=Proud One). There were 24 of them, they took part in the Czechoslovakian invasion too, after 1970 they were put into reserve (the Shilkas arrived), but on some maneuvers they were used in the 80s too.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvoFq42Ks2O21wGcqQ3iDUo0b_SyZgorm8V4iTmpgGoXFEnf7qNJSvnf7BKKt_tkXq6iV64SGhly6tOomEXJ3OFtr7jUBMGHqGnMQWd-PtkGkGfhnJVb1AdTRLWGuPE39tKHTc_EvrQZdLOTFLcW9rTw503Esim1Ey-EK97HS8cYFAM-vPA24oMP5zb8c/w584-h276/ZsU572_1p100_1.JPG)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhhU-zk10bg0HAVEi29eqDRicrlHURv0JK57TA3RWmdzJn6Ksf_5RhF1n1xYMMBVqFGG2QDusKezJ6wYeOprCvB1qaWSz71E_jDDH2hmXlAEqIQ6QpuzkGDOX8HR0QAs-3fR7vV7jxgeo_hFZZ0_YjTABpCZUQqPztDVtTlCLvWpOOZP90gNE1Xo9ydeWs/w654-h268/ZsU572_1p100_2.JPG)
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Nice! I love the ZSU-57-2. Thoroughly useless as an AAA platform but imagine two 57mm guns being pointed at you in an infantry support role.
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The SPGs and those ZSU's look good. Nicely done...
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lovely work and the whole force is coming along very nicely
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Nice.
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Thank you, guys!
Thoroughly useless as an AAA platform but imagine two 57mm guns being pointed at you in an infantry support role.
In Vietnam the 57mms were responsible for a huge part of the US aircraft losses, and this bad boy has 2 on a self-propelled platform, so far from useless. But, as any AA unit, it also relies heavily on the radar systems and the proper communications between them, so the succesor, the Shilka had a huge advantage having at least the targeting radar on its own.
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As far as I'm aware the Soviet/Russian Shilka (not so sure about the export versions) also had a data link system that enabled it to share targeting data with the other Shilka's in the battery as well as the mobile air search radar systems. It was a very advanced system for its time but limited to the 60's and 70's technology - the Soviets did try to upgrade it as much as possible but with varying degrees of success.
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Thank you, guys!In Vietnam the 57mms were responsible for a huge part of the US aircraft losses, and this bad boy has 2 on a self-propelled platform, so far from useless. But, as any AA unit, it also relies heavily on the radar systems and the proper communications between them, so the succesor, the Shilka had a huge advantage having at least the targeting radar on its own.
Vietnam was quite a different kettle of fish. For much of the air war over the North, US attack aircraft came in from largely predictable ingress routes and attacked a (relatively) limited range of targets. The North Vietnamese were able to mass S-60s and all the other elements of their panoply of AA defences around likely targets. The S-60 batteries were also equipped with fire control radar, which allowed for battery fire, ie all six guns per battery being slaved onto the one target. The US ultimately managed to jam the associated SON-50 radars reasonably effectively but the point remains that they were up against masses of AA weapons. Over North Vietnam you have the highest concentration of anti-aircraft defences in history.
The ZSU-57 lacked a fire control radar. It's density of employment in Soviet Tank and Motor Rifle divisions was nowhere near that over North Vietnam. To that end the ZSU-57 probably ranks as a marginally more effective Soviet version of the M-42 Duster. The Soviets recognised its limitations and the fact that volume of fire and some degree of autonomous radar control were the desirable factors in a SPAAG system (the US reached the same conclusions) and fairly rapidly moved towards the ZSU-23-4 as a replacement. In fact Shilkas started to replace ZSU-57s after about seven years of service with the Soviet Army.
There are estimates that the S-60 achieved a hit for every 8,500 rounds fired in Vietnam. The massive numbers of US air losses to all forms of AAA took place over a ten year period. It's also worth noting that the bulk of US air losses were rotary wing and the circumstances of their losses meant that they were predominantly claimed by smaller weapons, rifle calibre through to 23mm
So maybe the ZSU-57 can't be described as completely useless but it was not a very effective system and an expensive one for what it was.
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I do not want to open a debate about the US losses in Vietnam, just wanted to point out the fact that everyone concentrates on the role of the SA-2s while the 57mms were a major contributor too.
So maybe the ZSU-57 can't be described as completely useless but it was not a very effective system and an expensive one for what it was.
The concept of a radarless AA vehicle was like the SU-122-54 or the T-10, a ww2 concept born a bit too late :) The most fitting two word verdict might be "outdated quickly". There are two things to consider though:
-it was not just about the concepts, but about the Soviet radar manufacturing capabilities too :)
-these vehicles were never meant to operate alone. Warsaw Pact AA was a complex system with layers from the huge missiles down to the tripod DShK-s AND all the locators AND all the communications between them. The war this system was designed for was never fought (thank God), but the closest to it was maybe the USA-Vietnam war. And one of the key points of Vietnamese successes was the communication: they shot down the Hueys with handguns not because their handguns were so effective or that they could shoot so well, but because they knew when and where the Hueys come, they transmitted the info through the actual public radio (well, the guerilla frequencies people listened to in secret) and everyone in the county with a gun rushed to the scene and went ratatata. And then one of the many-many bullets found its way to the pilot or to the engine.
The S-60 batteries were also equipped with fire control radar, which allowed for battery fire, ie all six guns per battery being slaved onto the one target. The US ultimately managed to jam the associated SON-50 radars reasonably effectively but the point remains that they were up against masses of AA weapons.
Hungary had these S-60 batteries too, they actually outlived in service the Zsu-57-2-s and the Shilkas too.
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People focus on the SA-2, in part because it was the new, flashy technology of the time but also because it effectively changed US tactics (not just in Vietnam) and made the older low to medium level AAA effective again.
You're right, the system in Vietnam was in many ways a continuam of Soviet, multi-layer AA doctrine and centralised fighter direction. It worked moderately well when the USAF was effectively hand tied during Rolling Thunder, it worked a lot less well against Operation Linebacker in 1972, hardly worked at all in Egypt in 1967 and was even less successful in Iraq. That's not to say that the multiplicity of Soviet systems would not have caused carnage in a Cold War turns hot scenario in Western Europe or that each historical example is an exact analogue but it does suggest those systems would likely have done a lot less well than predicted.
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People focus on the SA-2, in part because it was the new, flashy technology of the time but also because it effectively changed US tactics (not just in Vietnam) and made the older low to medium level AAA effective again.
You're right, the system in Vietnam was in many ways a continuam of Soviet, multi-layer AA doctrine and centralised fighter direction. It worked moderately well when the USAF was effectively hand tied during Rolling Thunder, it worked a lot less well against Operation Linebacker in 1972, hardly worked at all in Egypt in 1967 and was even less successful in Iraq. That's not to say that the multiplicity of Soviet systems would not have caused carnage in a Cold War turns hot scenario in Western Europe or that each historical example is an exact analogue but it does suggest those systems would likely have done a lot less well than predicted.
It is hard to find good analogues in the local wars for cold war goes hot, as these were more about the success of implementation of military concept rather than the concepts themselves. WP concepts were rigid systems based on stoic obedience and toleration of losses, this was not the style even for the European WP allies. It has some succeses though: the Egyptian invasion of 1973 (until they decided to go against it and halted the offensive), the Ogaden war or Vietnam itself. It, of course, had some bad examples too, Syria or Iraq. But the western doctrine was in the same situation, while IDF managed to achieve victories with it, South Vietnam in 1975 collapsed in weeks despite all the American hardware and 20 years of training.
The Vietnam air war could be a good analogue at least for the sub-topic of the AA artillery warfare as it was used as "it shold be". Yes, there were also a lot of special circumstances, but these were on both sides, the Americans fought with their hands tied by politicians sometimes, but they were still the air force of a superpower in its prime with resources unimaginable to others, versus Vietnam who solely depended on their AA artillery as their air force was small, they had no means to attack US airfields or disturb their supply chain. A war can not be won from the air alone while a massed air attack can not be stopped from the ground alone, these we already knew from ww2.
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Well the Soviets did draw at least one lesson from Vietnam. They realised that rotary wing aircaft were vulnerable to machine guns. Pre-1970 all those T-55s and T-62s were churned out of the factory minus an AAMG. Around 1970/71 the Soviets started building new versions and retrofitting older models with AAMGs for the loader. AAMGs were considered to be somewhat passé in the 1950s as jet aircraft's speed meant engagement times and envelopes were frustratingly small, hence their absence on Soviet tanks.
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Well the Soviets did draw at least one lesson from Vietnam. They realised that rotary wing aircaft were vulnerable to machine guns. Pre-1970 all those T-55s and T-62s were churned out of the factory minus an AAMG. Around 1970/71 the Soviets started building new versions and retrofitting older models with AAMGs for the loader. AAMGs were considered to be somewhat passé in the 1950s as jet aircraft's speed meant engagement times and envelopes were frustratingly small, hence their absence on Soviet tanks.
Well, that was one lesson of the many :) In general, Vietnam ended the late 50s-early60s rocket mania both on the East and the West, guided missile technology reached some technical limits while soldiers realized that increasing warhead size is just not the answer for every problem they might face.
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Well, that was one lesson of the many :) In general, Vietnam ended the late 50s-early60s rocket mania both on the East and the West, guided missile technology reached some technical limits while soldiers realized that increasing warhead size is just not the answer for every problem they might face.
Oh, yes, and a little weird story regarding Hungarian Army and Vietnamese experiences: Hungarian Army (like most armies I guess) has a handgun collection to train soldiers and weapon smiths for the potential enemy equipment. There is (of course) an M-16 in it too, that particular weapon came from the Soviets back in the WP days. Decades went by, WP was disbanded and Hungary joined the NATO. Like all weapons, the old M-16 has a serial number too, someone, out of curiosity, asked the Americans about that number. They said that yes, this weapon belonged to Private XY, who disappeared in the Vietnam jungle in 196x, MIA status to this day- but yay now at least his gun was found.
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Cool!
Vietnam was a significant donor of M16s to insurgent forces in Latin America post 1975, large numbers showed up in Nicaragua and then El Salvador during the Civil War. Simplified logistics no end. Cuba did the same thing with FALS and then, as things progressed, there was an influx of AK types, including Hungarian AMD-65s. Quite a few of those turned up in El Salvador, having been passed on by the Sandinista government in Nicaragua.
Of course the odd Hungarian weapon popped up during the Vietnam War. Here's a captured AMD-65 in use by US recon troops. Who knows, maybe it ended up in a US captured weapons stockpile?
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Vietnam was a significant donor of M16s to insurgent forces in Latin America post 1975, large numbers showed up in Nicaragua and then El Salvador during the Civil Wa
Vietnam tried to put everthing to a good use what they captured form the Southerners, and that was a lot of Amarican equipment. In the Cambodian war they had entire units equipped with M113s for example. F-5s were sent to the USSR for ,,benchmarking" :)
Of course the odd Hungarian weapon popped up during the Vietnam War. Here's a captured AMD-65 in use by US recon troops.
Wow, I was not aware of AMDs in Vietnam. A huge batch was sent to the left leaning factions in the Lebanese civil war, then to Croatia during the Bosnian war. Finally, a huge batch to help the American organized Afghan National Police during the USA-Afghan war. Regarding the situation of these places, now the AMD would not be surprising popping up anywhere in the globe- but in Vietnam, that is new.
With all these donations, the Hungarian Army is seemingly out of them, the police has some of them stockpiled. The Army now uses the locally manufactured Bren2s, reservists and territorial units still use AK-s sometimes, but these are AK-63s. Basically the predecessor of the AMD, this was a Hungarian made AKM with very minor modifications. The weapons used now were sent to conservation right out of the factory, so survived in a very good condition.
+there were actually some Hungarian soldiers in the Vietnam war, but they were in the UN comittee overseeing the ceasefire after 1973. Everyone knew that it is only an empty political stunt as the North is preparing a full scale invasion regardless of how peaceful the DMZ is. Despite that, some Hungarian soldiers died when their helicopter was shot down- unclear to this day who did it. They did not carry assault rifles though.
Who knows, maybe it ended up in a US captured weapons stockpile?
If they missed the opportunity in Vietnam and in Afghanistan, they can just buy it as some of the AMDs were converted to semiauto and sold on the USA civil market.
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I've seen photos of other examples in the hands of USMC force recon troops, so they must have sent a fair sized batch for captured examples to have kept popping up.