Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Trooper on 27 October 2009, 03:21:35 PM
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I live in a quiet little market town in Suffolk, it gets its share of tourists, so there are a few antique shops as you would expect. My favourite goes by the rather twee name of Honeycombe Antiques. The owner is a military history buff, which is a plus for me. I have made some good purchases there, such as an 1853 Enfield rifled musket, and recently a 1925 model of a Moisin Nagant infantry rifle with bayonet. So I look in from time to time to see if he has got anything else of interest. The other day I realised that he had surpassed himself. So I thought I would share it with you, as it will definitely interest fans of this forum.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg223/timhall1955/018-4.jpg)
Yes its a M1910 Maxim machine gun, full size, never been issued. Found still in it's greasproof wrappings in a crate in Mother Russia. The dealer he bought it form imported several to the UK all in similar condition. It is a snow cooled version with the cap on the top of the barrel. Comes with ammo crate and ammo belt. Only £585.00. I am thinking of buying it, the ultimate in home defence. No seriously my wife and I considered buying it, she is very taken with it, and thought it would look really cool in our dining room. Sadly we just don't have the room. First time since moving here I have wished for a bigger house.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg223/timhall1955/016-5.jpg)
Hope you guys like it.
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Marvellous!
I would have thought a replica would command a higher price than that.
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I live in a quiet little market town in Suffolk, it gets its share of tourists, so there are a few antique shops as you would expect. My favourite goes by the rather twee name of Honeycombe Antiques. The owner is a military history buff, which is a plus for me. I have made some good purchases there, such as an 1853 Enfield rifled musket, and recently a 1925 model of a Moisin Nagant infantry rifle with bayonet. So I look in from time to time to see if he has got anything else of interest. The other day I realised that he had surpassed himself. So I thought I would share it with you, as it will definitely interest fans of this forum.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg223/timhall1955/018-4.jpg)
Yes its a M1910 Maxim machine gun, full size, never been issued. Found still in it's greasproof wrappings in a crate in Mother Russia. The dealer he bought it form imported several to the UK all in similar condition. It is a snow cooled version with the cap on the top of the barrel. Comes with ammo crate and ammo belt. Only £585.00. I am thinking of buying it, the ultimate in home defence. No seriously my wife and I considered buying it, she is very taken with it, and thought it would look really cool in our dining room. Sadly we just don't have the room. First time since moving here I have wished for a bigger house.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg223/timhall1955/016-5.jpg)
Hope you guys like it.
If you don't buy it I will, the wife be damned!
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Heavens! If I knew how to bring this baby in line with german weapon law...
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Svenn, its no replica, its the real deal.
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I never doubted it, what I meant was that I thought if one had a replica to sell it would fetch more than £600 and that this would be far higher
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What a darling thing! It is just sooo Russian that you're supposed to cram that thing full of snow... :)
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You are allowed to own such things in GB ???
Holy mother Russia
You could even get the ammo for that
fix it to a window and it won't stand in the way ;)
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Fantastic! I am gobsmacked it was never issued, for at the start of WW1 the Russian army only had 4,195 machine guns! Could it be a later edition?
As for having these in the UK, as long as it is deactivated (which it must be to be sold in an antique shop) you don't need a license. My study sports a splendid MG42, discovered in the Ukraine in 2006. Always a talking point over a glass of port!
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My Better Half won't even let me have my Wallace and Gromit toys in the front room, your Missus would let you have a bloody cannon! You're a lucky man.
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My Better Half won't even let me have my Wallace and Gromit toys in the front room, your Missus would let you have a bloody cannon! You're a lucky man.
Find something she likes to keep there and use the leverage >:D... Or not, if you're like me ;). Damn lucky bugger he is though. You could never find something so interesting in antique shops here!
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former user, it can be owned in GB because it is "de-activated", and has a certificate to prove it. The dealer who imported it, did keep a couple of live ones for sale to who knows? USA probably. I don't know the dealer, only the antique shop guy, but the dealer must have some damn good contacts in Russia.
Ignatieff, I think from the markings, this version was actually made in about 1944, but the condition is as it came from the crate. My Moisin Nagant rifle came from the same source, and all working parts were serial numbered. That was still in its grease wrappings, and had been made in 1921. Like I said, I guess the Russians just don't throw stuff away.
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then same as in germany
I read that nowadays there are specialized enterprizes that can come up with almost everything, like tanks and planes - all resurected from rivers and swamps
guess there might have been a forgotten army store somwhere
I have a rather ambivalent attitude to firearms - everything fine as long as it is in theory and on pictures, but as soon as I have the real thing in my hand, I get the creeps....
strange thing, must come from my year in the army....
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It's not unusual for an army to store weapons for very long times. When I did my tour in '89/'90 we were issued brand new G3 assault rifles with wooden stocks rather than plastic ones - they had been waiting in magazines for 35 years by then.
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It's not unusual for an army to store weapons for very long times. When I did my tour in '89/'90 we were issued brand new G3 assault rifles with wooden stocks rather than plastic ones - they had been waiting in magazines for 35 years by then.
the whole germen territorial army was issued these
I've been guarding 150 of these for a year.
they are kept wrapt and oiled and cleaned up every 2 years
maybe they've been sold out now, since this is 20 years ago (-;
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The official replacement is the G36. I don't know how much of them are now issued to the troops...
Could be that the G3 is now completely replaced by it. ???
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i thought UK gun laws were strict? A store can sell a fully working Machine Gun??? Is it really deactivated? Buy it you can store it under the dining room table or under a cloth somewhere. Get rid of a chair or something to make the room. Get a friend to store it. This is a fantastic find. I would just be happy to have a Mauser broomhandle pistol.
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The official replacement is the G36. I don't know how much of them are now issued to the troops...
Could be that the G3 is now completely replaced by it. ???
I'm afraid there are a lot in africa nowadyays....
apart from turkey
the Maxim is disabled, as I understand
this usually involves cutting up the barrel near the breech and welding in a blocking pin
so you can still insert a shell, but can't fire it
or maybe it's different today
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Oddly enough we spotted a Thompson SMG in a charity shop a couple of months ago (Animal Welfare shop in Tywyn).
Our first thought was "who donated an SMG to the Animal Welfare ?".
Our next thought was "where could we find that much cash". Luckily it was out of our budget that weekend.
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I am thinking of buying it, the ultimate in home defence. No seriously my wife and I considered buying it, she is very taken with it, and thought it would look really cool in our dining room. Sadly we just don't have the room. First time since moving here I have wished for a bigger house.
Don't worry. Once you buy the Maxim, it will be child's play to annex your neighbour's house and expand down the street, house by house.
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Well I have not entirely given up hope, its still in the shop and Christmas is coming soon, so who knows. As for deactivation, a good point I don't know how it has been done, being a M1910 weapon, it will be 100 years old next year and then could be sold in working order. I wonder if a version of an M1910 made in 1944 counts though? I am now on visiting terms with it, going armed with a tape measure next time ha ha.
I sort of understand former user's creepy feeling, but this has never been fired in anger. I worked closely with firearms for my 31 years career so I just regard them as tools for a job. I get quite a buzz handling historic weapons though, I find it gives one a connection to the past, especially with more antique pieces, wondering where they have been and so on. My Enfield has an intriguing five notches carved into the stock which is a bit weird.
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Superb find, just very rare you would stumble upon something like this. In the States you would need a class 3 license to house a working automatic machine gun, if disabled, then just the room in your house and your wallet.
I think my Mrs would go for it, she just got finished getting her license to carry a concealed handgun and just bought herself a Glock 17 9mm....remind me not to make her angry ;)
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Why would someone’s want to carry a concealed handgun? I don’t get it… :?
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never mind Your weapon enthusiasm :)
this is a very personal thing - not necessarily to be understood
the potential is enough for me
some Years ago, I gave away my fully functional flintlock pistol
one slight motion with Your index and a life is gone....
the strange thing is that I am wargaming, so models, movies, books are OK, since fictional
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Why would someone’s want to carry a concealed handgun? I don’t get it… :?
Right to bear arms and all that...
Great find, wow what an interesting picture, never seen one in such pristine condition.
Thanks for the photo.
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Why would someone’s want to carry a concealed handgun? I don’t get it… :?
Those Americans and their security, don't you remember?
...they had been waiting in magazines for 35 years by then.
Prolly just my lack of connecting the dots in chrono, but surely you don't mean they had their ammunition cartridges in them for that long, and having been stored as such in the first place?
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but surely you don't mean they had their ammunition cartridges in them for that long, and having been stored as such in the first place?
Storage generally involves oiled and wrapped in oiled paper or cloth, of course without ammo!
Weapons are never stored with ammo in peace time, for security.
As to carrying arms - I am certainly not a fan of that idea, but one shouldkeep in mind the circumstances.
In certain areas of the world, I fully understand that people have the desire to protect themselves. Certainly carrying arms is always subject to escalation, but what do You do if You already are in an escalated envirinment?
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Last week on Sydney radio, the discussion was on strange stuff found at the back of the cupboard.
One bloke rang up to explain that he'd been in Vietnam with the Australian Army in the late 60's.
They were given some ration packs and sent on patrol. They ate them in the dark that night, unheated, and buried the tins etc on the following morning when he could look at the tins.
Ration packs are dated at time of manufacture. It was 1917.
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hardly surprising
remember the crimean war
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During his National Service in the early 50's my Dad was out on the ranges in Germany in his tank. They had been issued with compo ration packs too, dated 1942!
By all accounts they were just about edible. Seems the British army doesn't like throwing stuff away either.
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if the rations are properly sealed, the nutritional value remains, but Yuck.... the taste
that Germany still had rations from 42 with their soldiers almost starving in 44, is however something different......
war is a bitch....
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Prolly just my lack of connecting the dots in chrono, but surely you don't mean they had their ammunition cartridges in them for that long, and having been stored as such in the first place?
[/quote]
I believe the word magazine here is used in the meaning of a place where weapons and ammunition are stored (aka an armoury) rather than the magazine of a weapon.
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remember the crimean war
No...I'm afraid I don't. Bit before my time, that...
When I was in Hastings a year or so ago there was an antique shop with a Bren & PPSH41 in the window. Sadly, they were both quite a bit out of my price range...
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Anyone else want one?
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/allied-deactivated-guns/deactivated-wwii-maxim-machine-gun-with-sokolov-wheeled-carriage/prod_527.html
who said they wanted a broomhandle Mauser?
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/axis-deactivated-guns/deactivated-mauser-broom-handle/prod_371.html
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No...I'm afraid I don't. Bit before my time, that...
When I was in Hastings a year or so ago there was an antique shop with a Bren & PPSH41 in the window. Sadly, they were both quite a bit out of my price range...
so You remeber Hastings but not the crimean war? ;)
there was a huge scandal about contractors to the british army shipping rotten food to crimea
thought people might know, sorry :-I
can we stick to the models please? >:D
there was this site with the lego weapons....
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I've always considered myself quite a pacifist (hence the name). However, I remember studying in the Stated in the early 90's and being invited on a weekend trip with a bunch of friends. All of us rather left-wing anti military etc. However, the guys who took us along, had some real gun freaks in their midst. Well, guess who were having a blast with the guns shooting beer cans (after having drunk them, OF COURSE!). So I can at least understand this almsot... sensual pleasure of people shooting or handling them. There is something weird and powerful about the weight, strength and noise of gun being fired. That's why I am glad not everybody in Germany is allowed to have one. There are just too many weirdos around who might have funny ideas.
I do realize it is a cultural thing and this is my personal opinion.
Oh, but seeing this old beauty... it would look rather sharp in front of our fire-place. Unfortunately the right to have a poster of The Who hanging in the living room has already been quite a struggle. I'm not sure about the machine-gun. Maybe if I painted it in friendly colors...? Like pink???
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...Oh, but seeing this old beauty... it would look rather sharp in front of our fire-place. Unfortunately the right to have a poster of The Who hanging in the living room has already been quite a struggle. I'm not sure about the machine-gun. Maybe if I painted it in friendly colors...? Like pink???...
A Hello kitty Machine Gun? You could even paint the logo on the MG's shield! lol
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who said they wanted a broomhandle Mauser?
http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/axis-deactivated-guns/deactivated-mauser-broom-handle/prod_371.html
It was me (and probably a horde of others) Looks awfully new to me?
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The U.S. is made up of 50 states each with its own gun laws, some very loose some very restrictive. Interestingly those that are the least restrictive about possession and carrying a firearm, are those with the lowest crime rates, those that are most restrictive have the highest crime rates.
The is a web site that I am to much of a luddite to be able to connect, but it has various arms available, as well as numerous assecories. It is well worth checking out. It is International Military Antiques - USA or IMA-USA. Lots of cool but expensive militaria.
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The U.S. is made up of 50 states each with its own gun laws, some very loose some very restrictive. Interestingly those that are the least restrictive about possession and carrying a firearm, are those with the lowest crime rates, those that are most restrictive have the highest crime rates.
Sorry to interupt off topic, but this is an incorrect statement of fact. Compare to Houston to Honolulu, for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
If there is a correlation, which I do no believe there is, it is far from a simple: more guns = less crime.
Moderator: please delete the offending post, which is liable to start a flame war, and this one too, as redundant once the other is gone.
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now, now gentlemen
actually, this topic should have been in the open talk category, since it is not about our hobby.
from what I have understood, no correlation was made between the arms restrictions and the rate of crimes.
just an example given
If it were so, some examples from europe should be given too.
this is a rather controversial matter, and it also scratches at the wargamers' self understanding - keep that in mind
such a topic is likely to raise adrenaline, but also worth discussing (in my very personal oppinion)
so I think if everyone tries to keep on the fact side and maybe the topic is moved to the open talk, we are likely to make a revarding experience...
as to offending posts, from my experience I can offer the insight that one can delete them oneself, at least something like "bollocks"
(-;
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The U.S. is made up of 50 states each with its own gun laws, some very loose some very restrictive. Interestingly those that are the least restrictive about possession and carrying a firearm, are those with the lowest crime rates, those that are most restrictive have the highest crime rates.
The is a web site that I am to much of a luddite to be able to connect, but it has various arms available, as well as numerous assecories. It is well worth checking out. It is International Military Antiques - USA or IMA-USA. Lots of cool but expensive militaria.
chickens and eggs
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Yes, I believe this not the forum to discuss laws. As I said before, every country has a different approach to that and every person has (hopefully) some kind of opinion on that question. Let's just leave it at that.
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mg53/42-s-with-lafette-and-optics (http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/deactivated-guns/axis-deactivated-guns/mg53/42-s-with-lafette-and-optics-/prod_98.html)
(http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/M53_lafette/mg42_53_tripod_5.jpg)
They look kind of different in 'real life'.
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don't get it sorry
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nice gun, regardless.....
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Im sorry, did not mean to start a big debate over the US being able to carry weapons and such. It was just brought up in another post and just mentioned my wife getting one. Thats all. I carry one all the time as well. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Bottom line laws dont stop the bad guys carrying.
Back on the 'discussion' at hand, great pics !
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OK then
the mount we see above is a modern "Bundeswehr" Feldlafette.
It fits the old weapon because it was designed like this and the old one was similar.
Technically a real thrill to fire it with the scope and all
I recall even some remote device.
this way, soldiers can kill each other over a long range even more precisely :-I
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Im sorry, did not mean to start a big debate over the US being able to carry weapons and such. It was just brought up in another post and just mentioned my wife getting one. Thats all. I carry one all the time as well. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Bottom line laws dont stop the bad guys carrying.
Back on the 'discussion' at hand, great pics !
Well, your wife’s message is clear… you’re better to behave! ;) lol
P.S. I’m probably the one that should apologies for getting a very sensible subject started :-X Sorry!
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[Mod mode on]OK guys, let's stop talking about US weapon laws. I don't think anyone was offended, as far as I can see you handled it without your loyal Board Moderator who's been away for the weekend. Thanks. [/Mod mode off]
When I've been in Toledo/Spain for the first time in the late eighties you could buy original disabled HMGs in a tourist shop. The next time I was there they had no more original weaponry. Mind me, I would be tempted to have a WW1 or WW2-era machine gun, but never a used one from countries like Spain, Germany, Russia etc. - you never know if it was used only against armed opponents if you know what I mean.
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after all we are grown up ma ;)
any real weapon, disabled or not, is meant to kill people, whether it was "lucky" enough to be stored away or not.
I know, it is not the guns that kill people, but the ones that squeeze the trigger.
However, the psychology of soldiering during the last 200 years (apart from the technical development), has been pushed over the line where true physical skill as well as facing the actual act is not needed anymore. Therefore feeling humans do not need to be stultified, since they have no relation and empathy to the act anymore - they cannot even see the eyes of their target.
This also transfers to a polical attitude towards warfare, as seen in the last decade....
As we all can see from this topic, the users of this forum are sensitive, minding chaps -thank You very much :) -
maybe it has to do with the constant dealing with war, who knows.
However, since this thread is not about wargaming, weapons statistics in games, inspiration for modelling etc (though not obsolete at all - on the contrary), I seriously request it be moved to "Open Talk" - please......