Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Battle Brush Sigur on May 21, 2023, 01:31:38 AM
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Heyhey,
I've been toying with the idea of a Vietnam themed thread for a while. Since my own project hasn't gone anywhere beyond buying figures in 2017 though I've held back so far. :P the original plan was to play the DMZ variant of Chain of Command, which looks like a hoot. So I bought a platoon of ANZACs (intended to play as New Zealanders), bought and read two books...
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/P/B00BEL28OA.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SX500_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/P/B0052AU0XK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SX500_.jpg)
...and pretty much left it at that. Then around last christmas the probably last print run of Charlie Don't Surf was announced, so I treated myself to a copy, and since then I've been rather taken with the idea of running CDS at company level. Probably in 15mm, because that's what I got already, at least one platoon and some support. Now Battlefront are coming around with a re-issue of their Vietnam range, which of course made me think of that plan from a few months ago again.
Apart from that all of this happened while I was painting some of Empress' great Vietnam figures for a gentleman. The results of which you can see here:
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/civ1S.jpg.70e29bb051db5c1879839d9ba7282199.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/civ1S.jpg.70e29bb051db5c1879839d9ba7282199.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/civ1S.jpg.70e29bb051db5c1879839d9ba7282199.jpg)
It's mostly civilians and Vietcong/Insurgents. Great figures by the equally great Paul Hicks.
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/1S.jpg.7c07c7e91ceda5c4881b435edb1891fc.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/1bS.jpg.f45b44c1eca2a798da112f4f733632e7.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/2S.jpg.989ca24ba97baf3825a02bb282092833.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/2bS.jpg.eab9e7f3d6f8dc32b98dc0b60c6ff7c6.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/3S.jpg.f214f3ff47d19f03c81450bce0a1e462.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/3bS.jpg.582e823ae6a469e28e06f31409669624.jpg)
...plus four US Marines:
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/4S.jpg.97fcc91efa66ff0d3168196410bd2a7b.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2023_05/4bS.jpg.79bb90c8df8ca29a1b1118777460d178.jpg)
Similarities to fictional characters are purely coincidental. Anyway, great sculpts, and especially the civilians look like proper characters, with some very strong faces and concepts in there. The one-legged, angry man holding the rest for what looks like an MG34 is particularly striking.
Hope you like them!
So that got me thinking again about that whole Vietnam idea. And I don't know what even draws me to doing that. First I thought I could do the whole thing more cheaply using just my 40k figures (Orks and Catachan Imperial Guard) as stand-ins, but I'm rather sure that getting CDS on the table in 28mm is a bit problematic. 6mm probably would make more sense (as it usually does), as would Pendraken's great 10mm offerings. But then again I already got some 15mm stuff, right?
So yeah, I'm pondering the whole affair, and I'm not sure it'll go anywhere any time soon, but that shouldn't stop me from oogling at those 15mm Battlefront figures, right? :P
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I was riding your dilemma a few years ago and ended up going down the Pendraken with a dose of Minifigs - and buildings from Timecast. Heck, one day I may even get it painted. Oh, I added some twin rotor helicopters from a 3D printing company (forget which).
If you stick with 15 mm and Battlefront doesn't fill all your needs, take a good look at the Peter Pig range.
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Very nice painting, the civilians look particularly well done.
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Great work!
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Very good. As already mentioned, the Civilians are excellent.
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WOW they look great.
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WOW they look great.
Yes, they do!
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Yup very nice!
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Looking good!
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Go 15mm! It's a siren song to switch scales constantly. You already have 15mm stuff so use it. I go 15mm from ancient Rome to the Falklands. I save a lot on terrain.
Joe
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Lovely paint jobs…and the bases really finish them perfectly 8)
Personally, if I was going to restart my Nam project (for the 4th time) I’d definitely go for the Empress minis - beautiful sculpts and they are great to paint (as you’ve already demonstrated).
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@FifteensAway: I'm a big fan of Pendraken figures (in fact I painted a few of their ranges for their web store). My Thirty Years War collection features a LOT of their figures, and they're just a cool company. 10mm also makes a lot of sense in terms of scale (not to mention storage, investments of several sorts). Peter Pig is also a good suggestion. Also cool company, also nice figures. Especially for getting heavy weapons teams and such without having to get a full platoon. Problem with both the above is ...well, Brexit. Getting figures from the cool companies here in mainland Europe has become a bit of a nuisance. Worth it, but it kinda spoils the fun. In fact, buying toys has become a lot less fun lately, I noticed. :/
@Ash: Thank you! First time I painted US Marines for the period, and I was pretty unsure about colours and whatnot. :D It's funny how so many people seem to worry about getting the 'right' colours for Napoleonics and such, but you never hear such problems with (ultra-)modern conflicts, from which we have rock-solid sources and even formulas.
@Grumpy Gnome: thanks very much!
@Orctrader: Cheers! Yeah, I also enjoyed painting the civilians more, I have to admit. :D Painting the Marines was more inflicted with unsureness on colours. Also, of course, I was keen to get them 'right' as per certain film characters.
@Tom Dulski: Thanks, Sir!
@CapnJim: Many thanks!
@Digits: Cheers!
@Sparrow: Thank you very much!
@Joelegan: Yeah, it's probably the sensible thing to do. A friend of mine will only ever do 15mm for everything (except the smallest-scale skirmish things), which of course isn't a bad rule to live by. I tend to refer to 15mm as "the sensible size" due to various advantages.
@AKULA: Thanks muchly for the comment! Yeah, I added the little trees/bushes in the end. Let's see how long those last; they're a bit fragile, but I kept them just small enough so they aren't too vulnerable. Parts of the green leafs and underbrush on the bases may discolour over time, but that's okay as well and will work just as well I'm sure. Yeah, the Empress figures look amazing. I especially like the faces on the civilians. Those figures are real characters. Problem is that the Vietnam thing probably will be a sort of solo thing, and I can't invest the money or time (mostly that) into going company-level in 28mm. :D
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Hello, hello, hello. Time for an update! :D
Well, to be honest, my own Vietnam plans were torpedoed by Battlefront's very ...special approach to how they deal with local gaming stores. I had ordered a bunch of 15mm stuff through one of the stores I like, the store owner tried to order it from BF, everything took very long and in the end didn't go anywhere, because you have to either order the whole range multiple times over or something or don't get anything. Weird. Never mind though, I'm still kinda into the idea and might pursue it once I got more time again.
However, there are more fearless people than I am in the world. Those people go 28mm and go with the lovely Empress range. Like the gentleman for whom I painted the (armed) civilians last year. So he handed a big bag of metal (and resin!) over to me and told me to paint them. And so I did.
Here's a Light SEAL Support Craft:
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/2S.jpg.e7866933b2c59797e8d4b50f4e229e9c.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/2S.jpg.e7866933b2c59797e8d4b50f4e229e9c.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/2S.jpg.e7866933b2c59797e8d4b50f4e229e9c.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/5S.jpg.824aba62b0c6cc8235b05bebf951f30c.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/5S.jpg.824aba62b0c6cc8235b05bebf951f30c.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/5S.jpg.824aba62b0c6cc8235b05bebf951f30c.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/6S.jpg.4739357ca3601ab4d61215c729609536.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/6S.jpg.4739357ca3601ab4d61215c729609536.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/6S.jpg.4739357ca3601ab4d61215c729609536.jpg)
Impressive thing that. A proper embodiment of "more dakka".
US Marines:
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc3S.jpg.75bcafeec578e495f8e650ee6112c037.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc3S.jpg.75bcafeec578e495f8e650ee6112c037.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc3S.jpg.75bcafeec578e495f8e650ee6112c037.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmcB1S.jpg.c92459dff8e35c0cf979176f9f27f03b.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmcB1S.jpg.c92459dff8e35c0cf979176f9f27f03b.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmcB1S.jpg.c92459dff8e35c0cf979176f9f27f03b.jpg)
US Marines Recon:
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/recon1S.jpg.e2bc17ff56f5e1944b94d04e9fb52a3d.jpg)
SEAL Team 01:
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals1S.jpg.fc7d44f544074fb3e63acb3454269a44.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals1S.jpg.fc7d44f544074fb3e63acb3454269a44.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals1S.jpg.fc7d44f544074fb3e63acb3454269a44.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals2S.jpg.4e2dcc29fc19cac445fe8ed7b8a212e3.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals2S.jpg.4e2dcc29fc19cac445fe8ed7b8a212e3.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals2S.jpg.4e2dcc29fc19cac445fe8ed7b8a212e3.jpg)
Yeah, can't say much about the figures. Lovely sculpts. Hicks sculpts. One funny thing about those SEALs - the Empress website lists each of these chaps' equipment, which is rather helpful. Three of them or so were listed as "in LEVIS". I thought that this was some sorta typical US army abbreviation for some sort of shirt or harness. I didn't get that this actually means the jeans. Didn't get that until I actually found those photos of SEALs in Levis jeans. :D
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/levis-seals-chris-danforth-2.jpg.6a9290b226ef9a397b69a62ac0e44731.jpg)
So I had to repaint the trousers on 5 or 6 dudes (some on the boat as well). Oh well. Nice little spot of colour and funny little historical bit.
Anyway, hope you like them!
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Very nicely done.
Say what you like about the SEALS dress sense but they never made the fashion faux pas of double denim. I think the Italian SF gave jeans a try in the 1980s but the rhinestones compromised their camouflage in close country. :)
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Nice work on those.
The jeans look very good.
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A great looking bunch of figures, congratulations!
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Wonderful painting - well done. :-*
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Looking really good 👍
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@carlos marighela: :D :D
@ultravanillasmurf: All my life I've been waiting for someone to say that to me. :D
@Freddy: Thanks! Modern military figures are weird, especially with such amounts of kit, all of which being some sort of green, but still having to look somewhat different.
@Mick_in_Switzerland: Cheers, greetings to our Swiss neighbors! ;)
@Sparrow: Cheers, much appreciated.
Heyhey. I wasn't quite happy with the background-only photos, so I improvised some "in situ" backdrops from stuff I had lying around.
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/lsscSs.jpg.dcb8ddefc4d927887fbcbdec03fe6ca4.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/lsscSs.jpg.dcb8ddefc4d927887fbcbdec03fe6ca4.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/lsscSs.jpg.dcb8ddefc4d927887fbcbdec03fe6ca4.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals1Ss.jpg.2bd947a470d2c2cff5be9141688e87b1.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/seals2Ss.jpg.17e7507687d896db8381868c18d00207.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc1Ss.jpg.9a0aade896d5837ab76d51af263014da.jpg)
full size image: https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc1Ss.jpg.9a0aade896d5837ab76d51af263014da.jpg (https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc1Ss.jpg.9a0aade896d5837ab76d51af263014da.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc3Ss.jpg.b3f977526a1743013f470d61fa6d431c.jpg)
full size image: [url]https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2024_03/usmc3Ss.jpg.b3f977526a1743013f470d61fa6d431c.jpg[/img]
Hope you like them and happy easter, everybody!
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Great photos of some lovely models :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Fantastic photos :-*
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Gorgeous result on all the figures. Fantastic weathering on the LSSC, and your bamboo looks superb.
Great photography as well.
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Wow! Looks fantastic...love everything about these pics! :-*
Mike Demana
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Love the "in situ" pics. Well done!
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Wow! What amazing painting skills. These are exceptional :-*
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As always - lovely work!
I was at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance in November - they had an amazing Vietnam portion in their museum portion; it wasn’t of course just Australian, but ANZAC.
Full Metal Jacket is one of my all-time favourite movies, too! Ermey was originally to be the chopper door-gunner until he was determined to be the classic role he ended up with. And that made him until his end days!
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They are absolutely stunning, it looks more like stills from a film :o
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@gamer Mac: Thanks very much!
@AKULA: Cheers! It's fun to look back at those. :)
@Ash: Thank you! Yeah, I did a little bit of research and extra work on that boat. For that alone it warranted putting a bit of effort into the photos.
@mikedemana: Thank you, very kind. :)
@M Blakey: Many thanks for the comment! I doubt what I do a LOT, it's very exhausting, so these comments really help, as silly as it may sound.
@CapnJim: I know I haven't replied in quite a while, but the term "in situ shot/photo" stuck with me and over the past 12 months I used it a bunch of times!
@dickiegranthum: Cheers! I got this pipe dream of a 15mm Vietnam collection. I keep buying figures for it, but never seem to find the time! My idea was to do ANZAC infantry as well as Vietcong/NVA. Read a bunch of stuff on ANZACs in Vietnam, specifically the New Zealanders. About Full Metal Jacket - it's funny how when I was young of course I preferred the first half of the film, now I vastly prefer the second half, especially so the combat stuff with the sniper in the end. Snipers creep me out. Anyway, a few months ago I watched Platoon again, and what a film that is. Hadn't watched it in years, but it's really good.
@Russ justice: Thanks for the compliment!
Right, a year has passed, I haven't proceeded a millimetre with my own 15mm Vietnam ambitions. But at least I got to painta few more 28mm figures for a gentleman in Austria. And an ox cart!
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2025_03/2s.jpg.812632d147f91a0f75b1265f608723cd.jpg)
Cart, mortar teams and RPG-chap by Empress, the other ones I'm not sure about. Poses are slightly more static and they're a fair bit larger than the Empress/Hicks figures. Anybody got a clue?
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2025_03/3s.jpg.b01325c7090024224d9bcb2ce01a4623.jpg)
Hope you like them!
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Love that VC ensemble!
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well, I must say, those chaps (and the oxen) do look snazzy!
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@Elk101: Thanks very much!
@CapnJim: Cheers!
Yeah, the gentleman who asked me to paint them for him was very happy as well. The bigger VC figures are Gringo40s, by the way.
I did a tiny bit more buying for my own Vietnam "project" (= I buy stuff, then toss it into that box over there): I bought another copy of Ambush Valley.
(https://www.wittwer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ambushvalley1.jpg)
I used to own that book, but out of all my Force on Force books, this was the one that got lost in a house move a few years ago. Been eyeing this copy at a lovely wargames store in Salzburg for a while. So every year I saw it, this time I got it. For a very good price too, because the store owner is a gentleman (and a salesman, so he knows he probably won't get rid of it any time soon anyway). Not that I really intend to play Force on Force with Vietnam figures. Force on Force is an excellent rules set and "as close to war as you ever want to get" (to quote the back of the Operation Flashpoint PC game box). Loads of great things in there (the best handling of casualties in modern conflicts) and a very clever depiction of modern firefights. However, there's many other rules sets I'd like to try before that. Great rules though and I have nothing but respect for people who play them.
Anyway, this book is much more than a supplement for those rules though. It's surprisingly light on scenarios (and FoF is exclusively scenario-driven), but it's a treasure trove of the history and infos about the forces involved in the conflict, with a wargames-specific focus. Including of course ANZACs, Thai armed forces, South Korea, everybody who was around in Laos, etc.
As an overview, this is to be viewed almost as a big (180 pages) Osprey book and some interesting ideas for special rules and a bunch of random event cards in the back. Strong book for any Vietnam wargamer I'd say.
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I did a tiny bit more buying for my own Vietnam "project" (= I buy stuff, then toss it into that box over there): I bought another copy of Ambush Valley.
(https://www.wittwer.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ambushvalley1.jpg)
I used to own that book, but out of all my Force on Force books, this was the one that got lost in a house move a few years ago. Been eyeing this copy at a lovely wargames store in Salzburg for a while. So every year I saw it, this time I got it. For a very good price too, because the store owner is a gentleman (and a salesman, so he knows he probably won't get rid of it any time soon anyway). Not that I really intend to play Force on Force with Vietnam figures. Force on Force is an excellent rules set and "as close to war as you ever want to get" (to quote the back of the Operation Flashpoint PC game box). Loads of great things in there (the best handling of casualties in modern conflicts) and a very clever depiction of modern firefights. However, there's many other rules sets I'd like to try before that. Great rules though and I have nothing but respect for people who play them.
Anyway, this book is much more than a supplement for those rules though. It's surprisingly light on scenarios (and FoF is exclusively scenario-driven), but it's a treasure trove of the history and infos about the forces involved in the conflict, with a wargames-specific focus. Including of course ANZACs, Thai armed forces, South Korea, everybody who was around in Laos, etc.
As an overview, this is to be viewed almost as a big (180 pages) Osprey book and some interesting ideas for special rules and a bunch of random event cards in the back. Strong book for any Vietnam wargamer I'd say.
I think all of the Force on Force supplements are handy resources, and can be adapted to other rulesets. But my view here is biased....when we worked on Ambush Valley, we discussed the scenarios vs. other content issue quite a bit. I've used the Fog of War cards to inspire other games' Special Event mechanics quite a bit...
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Oh yes, I think I got them all or nearly all of them. Played a few scenarios from Day of the Rangers with 6mm Epic40k figures. :D
Random events such as the FoW cards make any game better I think. I wrote a set of them for my 5150 campaign (set in my own slightly lower-intensity corner of the 40k universe) based on the FoW cards. As mentioned above, there's so much great stuff in FoF (and consequently Tomorrow's War). Again, the way casualties are handled is just great, and somehow another thing from Tomorrow's War will always stick with me: Technologically more advanced forces will have this all-encompassing battlefield communications system, which is super handy. BUT if enemy ECM turn it off these high-tech troops might lose their nerve, simply because that thing isn't there any more. Really liked that.
I just never played FoF/TW often enough to get my head around the reaction system proper. I even got a 20mm Cold War Gone Hot force for it, but we only played twice, I think.
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Just be careful with the stuff on unit organisation. It's OK for the US but defintely wrong for the Australians and suspect for the enemy and other Free World Forces.
Funnily enough, the Osprey on Vietnam Infantry Tactics manages to fuck up the Australian organisation before almost getting it right again a few pages on.
Must be the requirement to read our training pams upside down.
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Oh, thanks for the heads up. I got the Osprey about ANZACs in Vietnam. I'll have to compare what that says with what Ambush Valley says.
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I'll save you the bother.
On paper, it should be:
PHQ. Platoon Commander, Platoon Sergeant, 1 X Sig, I orderly/batman. Often a second radio carried.
3X Sections each of 10 OR. Broken into three groups for tactical movement. Scouts rifles and gun groups.
Scout group:
2 X Scouts. Typically lead scout with M16, Number 2 with SLR.
In most formations the Section Commander (Corporal) moved directly behind the scouts. Secco would carry an M16.
Rifle Group: Four rifleman, all with SLR. No 1. rifleman would carry the M79 in addition to his SLR. He was the tie in between the section commander and the rest of the rifle group and that meant the M79 could be fired at the direction of the section commander.
Gun Group. No1 with M60, No 2 with SLR, spare barrel and tools, Section 2IC (Lance corporal) with SLR.
The paper strengths were rarely achieved. When under strength usually it was the rifle group that was reduced first. When pepper potting in the final stages of the assault rifles and scouts tend to move as one group anyway.
Occasional variations: Some units had a preference for the M79 to be carried by the Sect 2IC to mark targets for the gun. Some platoons may have authorised a second automatic for the number two scout as this made it easier when rotating the scouts (this was done frequently as lead scout was a very stressful role). In 4 RAR in 1971 at least one platoon had aquired an extra 'floating' gun which was held at PHQ and used to increase supporting fire.
In 1965 through to about August 1966 some or all of the M16s can be substituted for Owen guns. These were progressively replaced in theory due to ammunition reliability issues but more likely due to the increased lethality of the M16. I'd note that this had started with 1 RAR on the first deployment in 1965 so by Long Tan, Owens are in the distinct minority.
Just as a note, despite appearing in the relevant training pams as an infantry weapon the F1 SMG (the Owen replacement) was not fielded by infantry platoons in Vietnam. A pool was held, principally for rear area defence but was on occasion doled out for cordon and search operations in villages.
Modified for typos.
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Thanks very much for the summary there! Much appreciated.
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VERY useful...thank you!
Mike Demana