Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: SJWi on 20 June 2023, 08:40:44 AM
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Good morning. Having recently re-started gaming Seven Year War after a gap of nearly 30 years, I'm considering buying a British/Hanoverian/Allied force to take on my massed French army in Europe. Can anyone give some advice on books that focus on the Army's organisation and maybe a bit of history? I've trawled the Osprey website, Caliver Books and Amazon and have found surprisingly few that I would want to buy without further recommendation. Most British 18th century titles seem to focus on the '45 , French Indian Wars or American Revolution. I can see a few volumes on "uniforms" but very little on the ORBATs.
Thanks.
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A bit eye-watering price-wise, but if you're looking beyond uniforms, Sir Reginal Savory's "His Britannic Majesty's Army in Germany in the Seven Years' War" is pretty much THE book on the subject.
In terms of uniforms and organisation, as the owner of the 3-part Osprey MAA on King George's Army, and the accompanying Warrior titles on other ranks and officers, all by Stuart Reid, I can thoroughly recommend all of them. There is a new MAA on "Frederick the Great's Allies" but I know nothing about it.
Hopefully, another member with the screen name "Jemima Fawr" will come along, correct all my errors and put you straight, as he is an absolute mine of information on this subject.
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Baron, thanks for the suggestions. I'm afraid at £200 the Savory book is a bit beyond my budget for a "fringe" project. i have all the Ospreys you mention and having looked at them they do cover basic detail such as uniform colours and regimental facings. What I still lack is any "campaign narrative" plus ORBATs. I do have the venerable Mollo/MacGregor Blandford book on the Uniforms of the SYW which has some data but not much.
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Have you perused the campaigns and battles pages on kronoskaf.com (http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=Main_Page)?
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Citizen Sade, many thanks for the suggestion. I accidentally found the site last weekend whilst following a link from the "Honours of War" rules forum, but I didn't realise what a rich resource it is until you have mentioned it. Sounds like there isn't a decent single-volume book out there so I'll be piecing things together from a variety of paper and web-based sources which is fine. I know back in the early '90s Pengel and Hurt and Alan Sapherson published quite nice wargaming guides to various SYW armies but it seems these now are nigh-on impossible to find.
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You’re welcome.
I think I still have all the P&H’s on the French stowed away somewhere so, feel free to drop my a PM if you ever have any queries about that army.
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Savory was reprinted for a reasonable price; not sure what the cost is now:
http://www.18thcenturypress.com/savory.html
I've seen this highly recommended:
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/the-army-of-george-ii-1727-1760-the-soldiers-who-forged-an-empire.php?sid=2bf7ef0085968beec3f81322a2c10ed7
Helion have lots of interest, books on Minden and Hastenbeck among others....
Neil
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Savory’s book is excellent if you can get hold of it, I had a 1st edition, sold it and then bought the reprint as soon as it was announced.
It looks like you can get a pdf version for a reasonable price here
https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/72/1/184/170629
I did a breakdown of the British/Hanoverian/others forces using the Kronoskaf site when Tod Kershner did a 3rd Edition of his rules “Warfare in the Age of Reason” and the percentage of British in the army is quite small so I would suggest when you build your forces, build them around specific battles.
I am using Front Rank for both sides to replace forces I sold off in 1999.
Pengel & Hurt are excellent, as is a set by Bill Biles.
As Citizen Sade said, if you need help, just ask as I have the P&G, Biles plus other books on the British/Hanoverian army.
Cheers,
Graham W
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Chaps, many thanks for the various suggestions. I had missed the Helion book when trawling their website so may be tempted by that. Judging by what you say I might just assemble a British/Hanoverian/Brunswick force using the Minden ORBAT as a rough template.
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I got the first edition of Savory as a present from my wife. Shortly afterwards it was reprinted. :-[
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Look out for "The Coward of Minden" which gives a bit of flavour to the army, covers Minden and is a less hagiographic study on Ferdinand of Brunswick's generalship. It looks in detail at Lord George Sackville.
Neil
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Thanks. It is clear I need to read more on Minden.
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Thanks. It is clear I need to read more on Minden.
Stuart Reid has a book on the battle; if you can find a copy there's one in the old Knight's Battles for wargamers series.
Neil
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Panzer 21, whilst the Reid book is currently half-price on Amazon the reviews aren't great. In particular the lack of maps is noted which is something I found extremely frustrating reading his military history of the English Civil War. However I also saw that Helion publish a newer volume which although nearly £30 may prove a better buy. I've located a copy of the Knight's Minden book but at $45 plus P&P won't be buying it. I'm slightly surprised there isn't an Osprey "Campaign" on Minden but there isn't!
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Panzer 21, whilst the Reid book is currently half-price on Amazon the reviews aren't great. In particular the lack of maps is noted which is something I found extremely frustrating reading his military history of the English Civil War. However I also saw that Helion publish a newer volume which although nearly £30 may prove a better buy. I've located a copy of the Knight's Minden book but at $45 plus P&P won't be buying it. I'm slightly surprised there isn't an Osprey "Campaign" on Minden but there isn't!
It's Neil :-)
TBH, neither is that great but the Knight's book is better. It's a confusing battle. Coward of Minden helps with understanding the British cavalry wing.
It's a pity Duffy didn't tackle the western theatre.
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Helion books - wait for a sale (sign up to the mailing list) as it can be up to 25% off. I think I have a copy of Brazen Wall but haven't got around to reading it.
Neil
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Neil, thanks for the advice. I'll certainly wait for a Helion sale. I don't believe I've ever paid full price for any of their books. I think I'll be starting with a small Anglo-Hanoverian force using the venerable Freikorps 15mm figures. There are probably better figures out there but these are cheap, very easy to paint and will match my existing Freikorps French.
Regards
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Here's the OB for the British forces, derived from Savary's book, which I own. Facing colors are in [brackets].
British Units in Germany
1st Contingent (1758-1759)
Colonel John Mostyn’s Brigade:
Royal Horse Guards (Blues) (3)
1st King’s Dragoon Guards (3)
6th Inniskilling Dragoons (2) [yellow]
Colonel Elliot’s Brigade:
3rd Dragoon Guards (2)
2nd Royal North British Dragoons (2)
10th Dragoons (2) [yellow]
Major General Waldegrave’s Brigade:
12th Foot [yellow]
23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers
37th Foot [yellow]
Major General Kingsley’s Brigade
20th Foot [pale yellow]
25th Foot [yellow]
51st Foot
Maxwell’s Converged Grenadier Battalion: 12th, 20th, 23rd, 25th, 37th, 51st Foot grenadier companies
MacBean’s Light Artillery Brigade (9 guns)
British Heavy Artillery Brigade: 6 x 12-lbrs
87th (Keith’s) Highlanders (arrived in late 1759)
2nd Contingent (1760)
2nd Queen’s Dragoon Guards (2) [blue?]
Carabiniers (3rd Regiment of Horse) (2) [pale yellow] {later 6th Dragoon Guards} (wore
breastplate}
2nd (Irish) Regiment of Horse (2) {later 5th Dragoon Guards}
4th Regiment of Horse (2) {later 7th Dragoon Guards} {may have worn breastplate}
1st Royal Dragoons (2)
7th (Queen’s Own)Dragoons (2)
11th Dragoons (2) [buff]
15th Light Dragoons (4)
2nd Battalion, 1st Foot Guards
2nd Battalion, Coldstream Foot Guards
2nd Battalion, 3rd Guards
5th Foot [goslin green]
8th Foot
11th Foot [Lincoln green]
24th Foot [willow green]
33rd Foot
50th Foot
88th (Campbell’s) Highlanders
Daulhautt’s Grenadier Battalion (5th, 8th, 11th, 24th, 33rd, 50th Foot grenadier companies)
Hope this helps.
Jim
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Sorry for mess-up with colors. Evidently the colors in bracket symbols converted the next line(s) to that color. Just ignore and go to the Kronoskaf site to get the accurate uniform details.
The two Highland regiments were often brigaded together and used as both "light" infantry and as assault troops, along with the two converged grenadier battalions.
For books, may I also suggest Operations of the Allied Army under the Duke of Brunswick: 1757-1762 by Sir Charles Hotham-Thompson. H-T was a British officer who served with the Duke. It was originally published in 1764. But has been republished by the Winged Hussar Publishing as part of their Nafziger Collection. It is still available from them at: https://www.wingedhussarpublishing.com/revolutionary-wars-napoleon/ (https://www.wingedhussarpublishing.com/revolutionary-wars-napoleon/) .
Jim
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Jim, many thanks for the information. It should at least allow me to start painting! I've just picked up the Winged Hussar book on Amazon for under £10 so very happy!
Regards.