Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: FriendlyNeighbourhoodNerd on June 25, 2023, 07:14:55 AM
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About a year ago, I picked up some 1:72 Italeri US paras and German Infantry. I painted a few of them for Five Men in Normandy, but I wasn't really that happy with the paintjobs (and I'm still not).
So, with a few more months of painting experience under my belt, I decided to paint a US para, wanting to try something a bit different and see if I'd like it enough to paint more in this new recipe. I primed white instead of black, for the uniform I used Vallejo Model Colour Khaki Grey in place of Khaki (while not as historically accurate, I prefer the look), and I actually highlighted the mini this time round, instead of going back over everything but the recesses with the base colour after a wash and calling it a day. I'm really happy with how he came out.
I'm thinking of essentially restarting, or adding to my WWII project – all with Five Men in Normandy or Five Men at Kursk in mind. I've been ogling, as one does, at AB Miniatures' gorgeous 20mm WWII range, but I'm also kind of thinking about going 28mm, Crusader Miniatures and Artizan Designs are what I'm mostly looking at (I love the goofy, heroic 28mm style many on this forum seem to heavily dislike) although Perry or Bolt Action stuff have also crossed my mind.
I'm really not sure which scale I prefer – if Mr. Barton sculpted at 28mm, I'd go with those in a heartbeat. There is certainly something to be said about the cheapness and availability of 20mm vehicles, but you don't gain too much table-area wise, while also being a bit harder to paint, I find, than 28mm – while 15mm (and below I assume) is easier, 20mm is big enough for detail, but small enough for said detail to be harder to paint (although it might just be the soft plastics that aren't the greatest, sculpting or detail sharpness-wise).
I'm really not sure, I'd love to hear some thoughts. Feedback on the paratrooper fella is also much appreciated.
I think I'll be posting any updates on the project on this thread, I'm a bit new to the forum so I hope that's not a problem.
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Nicely painted figures, I personally collect 1/72, although I do have a large 15mm and smaller 28mm collection, but 1/72 is my go to, there is so much available, and yes, small enough to paint and store easily, big enough for character, I use plastic, metal and resin figures, metal are the go to for most stuff, sharpness of detail in figures like AB are great for painting, I use plastics mostly for conversions, it’s easier to cut them up and pin together, resin because I have a 3D printer and can add variety and even occasionally make figures for my own needs, some other things to consider, the scale being used by any in your area if/when you want to game them, storage is another factor, here’s some pics of metal, converted and printed figs for consideration.
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Thanks!
Yeah, 1:72/20mm is a strong contender for the reasons you mentioned. I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna be gaming against myself, if at all; I haven't found anyone in my area, so that's not a concern.
These figures you've shared look really really good, certainly inspirational; what size are the bases?
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For me 1/72 (20mm) will always win over anything else due to the sheer variety of items available - nothing else comes close.
You also have the likes of AB for figures, but also hundreds of others too... and pretty much anything you could ever need.
My stuff is here if interested...
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=112679.0
There are some good 28mm around - Perry and Empress to name two - who don't follow the 'chunky' cartoon look of most plastics and many of the older metals.
But you won't have the variety of kits, figures, resin after market kits and conversion sets, terrain, etc that 1/72 offers.
Painting wise... 1/72 is far quicker for me.
But my advice is simple - buy what you like the most. They are your toys, and life ain't long enough to worry too much. Buy the toys you want to play with and enjoy it.
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I like 1/72 (20mm). I just like the aesthetic and I am part of the Airfix generation, which no doubt has an influence.
However, I have another reason, all my other stuff is 28mm and I prefer my buildings to be one scale lower (i.e. 20mm), which looks fine for my smaller table. For WWII tactical, I want my figures to match that terrain, as it gives more of a 1:1 scale and soldiers need to look right when standing next to doors and windows.
There is a ton of model rail buildings and track etc for 1/72, especially good to get resins on the second hand market.
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I would also suggest 1/72 (20mm) if you are just starting out, better figures than 28mm and an unrivalled range of options for troops, weapons and vehicles at a much lower price. The figures are large enough to identify characters and weapons which is often difficult if you drop down to 15mm.
My WW2 skirmish collection is built for Weird WW2 gaming, limited numbers of vehicles (which are pretty much only scenery anyway) and I opted for 1/48th scale. The figures are still a bit "heroic" in proportion but much better than the malformed 28mm offerings (yes I am one of the haters). However the ranges (Scarab and 1-48Tactic) are very limited in options.
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20 mm is my scale of choice for WW2 skirmish games. My go-to for figures is AB 20mm metal, as other folks have mentioned. For ranges not covered by AB, I highly recommend Simon's Soldiers, out of Australia. I just finished painting a squad of their Italian infantry and it was a joy to paint. Now I'm painting some Japanese.
For vehicles, I strongly prefer Plastic Soldier Company -- lots of customization options, lots of extra gear to dress up your vehicles.
I'm put off by most of the popular 28mm ranges because of the cartoonish, grotesque faces and stentorian poses -- everyone seems to be yelling!
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I'm putting a word in for 28mm. I love the detail of these figures, and as you mentioned, it doesn't require all that much more space. But also as you mentioned the sheer breadth of vehicles (lots pre-painted) you can get in 1-72/20mm is great!
You can tell the condition of my eyesight by the progression of figures sizes I've painted:
- Started in 15mm in '95. FIW, Napoleonics, ACW, WW2, and modern Africa.
- Then it was on to 1-72/20mm: AWI, War of 1812, Vietnam, and Modern (I have fleets of Pre-painted diecast armored and unarmored vehicles for modern and a bunch for Vietnam).
- Then, 28mm (which I used to think of as the Devil's own scale... :o) summoned me by it's siren call. Now, I have War of 1812, Fenian raids, Old US West, US Prohibition Era, WW2, Vietnam, and Modern. I even have bunches of pre-painted diecast vehicles for this size.
It's been half about my eyesight, and half about the detail and look of the 28mm's. But I do certainly understand your draw to 1-72/20mm...
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By the way, that para looks really good. The GI looks good too, but I like what you've done with the paratrooper.
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Thanks CapnJim! But they're both paras, I just painted them in different colors (even though it's not as historically accurate) - dude on the right is the new one. Which one are you referring to as a GI?
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The fella on the left...
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ah well, appreciate it in any case :P I did go a bit too brown on the new one I reckon.
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Nah. He'll work for Normandy. I'd use 'im for Holland, and the Rhine crossing too. What the heck...
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Thanks!
Yeah, 1:72/20mm is a strong contender for the reasons you mentioned. I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna be gaming against myself, if at all; I haven't found anyone in my area, so that's not a concern.
These figures you've shared look really really good, certainly inspirational; what size are the bases?
I use Aussie 5c coins, nice weight to them, I thin the are something like 14mm
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As you’re only likely to be playing against yourself, my advice would be collect and game in the scale you enjoy painting the most. Your 1/72 miniatures look great - how would you feel about painting another 50 like it, or another 200?
Perhaps see if you can pick up a single sprue of 28mm scale and paint them up. If the extra size and detailing required on a bigger figure puts you off, then stick to the smaller scale.
As others have said, the smaller scale is easier and cheaper for storage, vehicle and terrain options as well.
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I'm really not sure which scale I prefer – if Mr. Barton sculpted at 28mm, I'd go with those in a heartbeat. There is certainly something to be said about the cheapness and availability of 20mm vehicles, but you don't gain too much table-area wise, while also being a bit harder to paint, I find, than 28mm – while 15mm (and below I assume) is easier, 20mm is big enough for detail, but small enough for said detail to be harder to paint (although it might just be the soft plastics that aren't the greatest, sculpting or detail sharpness-wise).
Not sure about your comment that ‘you don’t gain too much area wise’. In my experience there’s a significant difference. 28mm is as good as 50% bigger than 20mm. The buildings and vehicles have a much bigger footprint. Here is a comparison between two identical tables but one in each scale. There’s a huge difference between the playable areas. I find the 28mm table very crowded compared to 20mm.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q70/924/G3FFxx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poG3FFxxj)
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Damn, you're right! I like the look of both (haven't played in them, of course) but I totally get what you're saying. I'm not entirely sure as to why I said that, I didn't do the mental math and for some reason 20mm feels closer to 28mm to me than it actually is. Brain fart there :P but thanks.
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Not entirely sure if I should make a new topic entirely, but I have a new question related to this project so I'm just posting it here.
Five Men in Normandy/Kursk (the latter explicitly asks for this) require some sort of status markers, and I would like to model those with actual figures, Fire and Fury style. I think for Normandy I would need "knocked down", "hunkered down", and, optionally (I could just remove dead figures from the board) an "out of action" figure, while Kursk needs "nervous", "scared", and "down" markers.
How would you go about making markers for these? Which figures would you use? Recommendations from 15, 20 or 28mm miniatures are welcome, I haven't decided on scale yet (story of my life, I suppose).
Quite a few, manufacturers seem to offer dead figures, but what about nervous? Suppose I could use prone figures to denote "hunkered down" status, but I'm not sure. I also don't know of any other rulesets that ask for this, to get inspiration.
A problem with this approach is that some manufacturers, like Peter Pig for example, don't offer an option for mixing figures from different packs. So, for example, if I'm gonna buy a set of 8 GIs for Normandy, I have to also buy a pack of 8 casualty figures, and a pack of 8 prone figures, and so on, substantially raising costs (instead of just buying a pack of GIs and then a pack of 3 casualty, 3 prone, 2 surrendering, or something along these lines).
I'm not trying to hate on Peter Pig or anything, I love their figures, just an example.
Frankly, it's not all that important, just a dumb fixation of mine. I know it's not at all necessary for the game, I just think these sorts of miniatures are cool to be honest. Probably more trouble than it's worth too, in regards to how much having that sort of thing improves the game experience.
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I will echo what others have already said on this thread: go with the models you like best, whether 28 mm, 1/72, 15 mm or something else! You're going to be spending more time collecting and painting than actually gaming, so make sure that you're going to enjoy the time prepping them for the table.
Tactical Painter's comment is very apt, though. Smaller scales will provide a better fit for the table, as ground scale won't be as stretched (or rather compressed) compared to figure size as it is for 28 mm, where a shot past the end of a nearby vehicle might end up being out of range for a pistol (depending on the game system). Plus, as others have commented, the variety, cost and avaiilability of figures, vehicles and particularly terrain is better with the smaller scales.
Despite what I've written, though, all my collection is 28 mm lol
with regard to your latest question, I personally couldn't be bothered to change out figures when they change status. I tend to use markers that fit in well with the board. I haven't played 'Five Men...' but for Chain of Command or Bolt Action, I use the upright rifle with helmet for shock or pin markers. In other games, I've used livestock, or explosion markers.