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Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: SJWi on July 21, 2023, 12:49:14 PM
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Does anyone know what became of these Vietnam rules. I think they were being written by Warwick Kinrade and recall a report of what seemed a near final playtest on this Forum back in early 2020 or 2021?
Thanks
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Not released yet, but still in the plans for the near future. Printing books is bloody expensive....
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What about releasing straight to PdF? Quite a few people seem to be doing this due to the print costs and the balance of risk/reward . Maybe not odeal but if it "got them out there" maybe better than being unpublished.
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PDF is a surefire way to find your rules on pirate sites within a week after release, so not likely.
Maybe they will go for print on demand, who knows. You would have to ask Warwick or Piers about that.
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OK. Understood. I liked Warwick's "Battlegroup" a
( or contribution to,( nd have bought his Soldiers of Napoleon, so hopefully Vietnam will see the light of day fairly soon. As I said I recall some posts of playtests from maybe 2-3 years ago so was hoping they hadn't bitten the dust.
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Any more word on if/when these rules might be published? I for one would support a KS or similar.
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Had a chat with Piers about it a week ago as I have collected all I need to start my build for it and the plan is to release them "somewhere this year".
I know it is a bit vague and all that, sorry.
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Good to hear they are still alive (or at least not yet still-born.) I too am starting to collect figures for these rules, it would be nice (and a way to get the word of mouth marketing buzz running) if you could persuade Piers and Warwick to talk a bit more about them. I'd be interested to know to start exactly what kind of forces we'd need - I understand the game is themed around the experiences of a platoon's tour, but does that mean there is a set TO&E, and what support units might I also need - (eg 1 huey, 8 hueys, a cobra, a OV10?) etc etc.)
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Thanks guys. I'll keep an eye out.
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I'd be interested to know to start exactly what kind of forces we'd need -
When I asked that last year the answer was "a platoon of GI's and a bunch of VC"
I've got that sorted in bare metal, and plenty of scenery to build. Nothing stopping you from making more stuff for other Vietnam rules I suppose.
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An update at last - this popped in my Facebook feed: "The cover for 'Nam 68 - Tour of Duty', the brand new Vietnam skirmish rules from Warwick Kinrade.
Coming soon!!!(https://scontent-lhr6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/449771344_845066584309875_110107229530948490_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=PniLWKqWXrUQ7kNvgHQDl4e&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr6-1.xx&oh=00_AYCHe4SyeB91IqqsPhwHWAtAVNjhwjFLmDEsmpDnDZbkmA&oe=668B84B9)
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New today and link to the website..its out Sept... but no details on rules or dice used etc....
https://www.theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/product/nam-68-deluxe-hardback-limited-edition/
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I ordered one today. I like Warwick Kinrade’s rule designs, in general. The preview pics look excellent.
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I guess "skirmish" = squad or platoon level so probably not for me. My search for multi-company combined arms rules for my 1/200 collection goes on!
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Normaly i like to know more first, but out of 290 hardback copies its down to 230... so i ordered a copy.. but love to find the right rules for me....fingers crossed. I know Rubicon are making some but the videos I say was way to busy in rules for me
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Normaly i like to know more first, but out of 290 hardback copies its down to 230... so i ordered a copy.. but love to find the right rules for me....fingers crossed. I know Rubicon are making some but the videos I say was way to busy in rules for me
I wanted one of the hardbacks - when I got mine, there were 234 left. So they’ve had good uptake, I guess.
I’ve loaded up a cartful of Empress Vietnam USMC and VC/civilians. Rubicon does a Huey in 1/56, probably get some of those too.
There is a card-based mechanic to the game; Amazon has “Kilgore Death Cards” available, which look fun.
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Also from my collection:
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That's cool! Just remember, though - "Charlie don't surf!"
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That's cool! Just remember, though - "Charlie don't surf!"
🤣🤣🤣👍
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And now, I've ordered my set...
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I guess "skirmish" = squad or platoon level so probably not for me. My search for multi-company combined arms rules for my 1/200 collection goes on!
You are a hard fellow to please 😉
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And now, I've ordered my set...
You and me both, shame we don’t live on the same continent mate 🇬🇧🇺🇸
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Ordered mine, going quick now, 84 left
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Lord Raglan, I wouldn't say "I'm a hard fellow to please" more I'm a chap looking for a higher-level ORBAT Vietnam game than the usual skirmish. I need to get my twelve Huey slicks and associated gunships onto the table not to mention the Skyraider support! I do have a set called "From the Delta to the DMZ" but I sense they were released as a "Beta offering" and the author lost interest and never quite finished them. Maybe one day I will have a go myself!
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Flames of War maybe
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I think not. I tried FoW many years ago but it didn't work for me. I've looked at both Peter Pig and the 2FL's rules which add a lot of Vietnam "flavour" and I need to try them more.
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For higher level orbat there's Cold War Commander. I've long enjoyed Blitzkrieg Commander. Haven't tried CWC, but that would be my personal first choice to take for a test spin if I were adding another period.
Here's an older AAR, but it checks out:
https://saskminigamer.blogspot.com/2007/08/cold-war-commander-first-game.html
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Cat, thanks for the reminder. One of my mates has Cold War Commander and many of the photos are from 'Nam. We have used them for 1980s Cold War with our 3mm stuff. However I think they may be too much a straight "combat" game and lack some of the specific "Nam flavour". I'll certainly add them to my candidate list
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Yeah, I've wondered about how the flavour level of CWC would play out for Vietnam, but the orbat level is very nice.
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For SJWi: have you looked at Charlie Don't Surf? I have a 10 mm collection (sitting and waiting to get worked on) with a lot of figures and bunches of helicopters - and that is likely to be my ruleset of choice if I stick with the 10 mm.
Very curious to see the number of hard copies in 'first' release for Nam '68. While a very small number probably a large number for what is a bit of a niche within a niche hobby. I will wait to hear more about the rules.
I am contemplating parting with the whole 10 mm collection and converting to 15 mm - while nice figures, the Pendraken figures just aren't motivating me: figures, vehicle, choppers (some from BPM), buildings, rice paddies (last two Time Cast), etc. Probably relates more to my long term focus on 15 mm than anything else.
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.......I do have a set called "From the Delta to the DMZ" but I sense they were released as a "Beta offering" and the author lost interest and never quite finished them. Maybe one day I will have a go myself!
Unless there were 2 sets with the same name the rights to those were bought by Jim at Gomi Designs, they were re-worked and re-issued. Unfortunately I don't know the current status of Gomi as he has not been on here for a good few years now (Mishima).
If you fancy messing about with a reskin, the rule mechanics of "Hind and Seek" (a Soviet/Afghan ruleset) from Ostfront would work really well for Vietnam at Company to Battalion level. Designed for 6mm but should cope with 15mm figures.
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The subject is Nam 68 the NEW rules by Warwick Kinrade (+ piers (?) ) - and are new.
Rules from ancient history are dead.
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It’s not something I have a collection of minis ready for but I’ve preordered on the basis of enjoying the writer/developer teams ideas and approach and the fact I have more interest in the smaller focus/scale of the games. Also happy to support PSC. Off to stare at 15mm options.
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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Am I right in thinking the pre order is shipping in September boys?
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It says “end September” on the pre-order page, but then it also says “131 copies in stock”, which strongly suggests the meaning of the phrase “in stock” has changed since I first encountered it. In any event, I’ve just reduced that number by one.
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127 now. Pre order period ends August 16th.
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Robh, thanks for the tip-off about "Hind and Seek". At only $10 from Wargames Vault might be worth a punt. They certainly seem to have some interesting game mechanics for asymetric warfare.
Regards
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6 hours and a wake-up. I’ve been wondering what would happen with any copies that aren’t pre-ordered. There may be a few as it’s now saying “227 copies in stock”. This suggests either that there have been 100 cancellations in the last two days or that the notional amount “in stock” resets when reduced to zero. Or maybe Charlie hacked the system. Publication date has also been amended to “end September / October”.
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6 hours and a wake-up. I’ve been wondering what would happen with any copies that aren’t pre-ordered. There may be a few as it’s now saying “227 copies in stock”. This suggests either that there have been 100 cancellations in the last two days or that the notional amount “in stock” resets when reduced to zero. Or maybe Charlie hacked the system. Publication date has also been amended to “end September / October”.
Piers mentioned the uptake was far stronger than anticipated over in BoW comments; perhaps they increased the number of hardbacks available (would make sense!).
I asked for my copy to be delayed until then anyway as I’ll be on holiday. Date is good by me!
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My only possible negative comment about this new book ordering system by PSC is/was the preorder period being quite short (without much pre warning) and finding the money in time (I know it’s not a lot and I’m not bemoaning the cost at all - just my fiscal reach or lack there of lol).
If you’re reading this Piers I’d like the Battlegroup commander preorder period slightly longer if possible - I’m happy that it’d delay the print a little - just don’t want to miss out (and it’ll be near crimbo so I definitely won’t be flush).
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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I haven’t checked the PSC website recently but all seems very quiet on the ‘Nam 68 front. Do you think Charlie’s up to something?
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I’m relatively sure that they (recently - in an email I may have deleted) said it’d be delivered in October, I was expecting it to be in the later half (only just had my reprint of Bagration after the initial fubar).
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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I’ve now looked at the website and found no mention of it, even in the community forum, though that seems to be a very recent addition to the site and is essentially bare of content. Evidently patience must be our watchword.
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PSC only announce via Facebook, if you don't use that platform they don't care about you.
Here and other forums we are reliant on PSC fans like Piers to pass information on.
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Ah, FB, of course, which I’m not on. Let us hope Piers reads this and my other PSC-related query on the WWII board, and is moved to respond.
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On Military Matters here in the states must have pre-ordered some. They have them listed as due in late October on their website.
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Most recent from what I have seen on FB is:
It's at the printers since 30th September, and they have a two week print time on that from what I heard, so, I would expect it back at PSC in two weeks, and out to backers by month end...
But don't quote me on that as an actual delivery date. Just my best guess.
An indication, NOT an absolute date :)
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Thank you. Even a projected date based on latest intel is an improvement on total radio silence.
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I ordered the limited edition hard back copy, dues in September, but no sign yet the PSC FB page seems to be all about the latest Battlegroup supplements
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Update today from PSC:
'Nam 68 Tour of Duty' is printed and on its way to PSC HQ. We hope to be shipping these out to the Boonies next week!
Once all backers have their deluxe hardbacks, we will set up the print on demand option!
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This Boonie Rat can’t wait to get down to the PX!
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Thank you Overlord - excited now :D
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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PSC only announce via Facebook, if you don't use that platform they don't care about you.
Here and other forums we are reliant on PSC fans like Piers to pass information on.
This makes me… sad??
I am STILL WAITING for my Nam 68 book; I’ve emailed Anita from PSC co a couple of times since coming back from Japan - no result.
Facebook only? Awful. I do wish that maybe I had used PayPal now. At least I could have stirred their unrest with a dispute.
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Herbert, sorry to hear about your experience with PSC. I ordered some 3D printed stuff from them back in August and it still hasn't arrived. Their "contact us" system on the website doesn't appear to work so I e-mailed Anita direct using an old "saved" address. She eventually answered yesterday ( ie 5 days later). It appears they are really snowed under. They ran a 30% discount sale in August at the same time as Nam'68 was on the cards plus I think the Bagration scenario book. Poor planning/timing seems to have overwhelmed them, but it is rather self-inflicted. No consolation for you however. I hope to see my models early next week. I hope they are worth the wait. They look superb on the website but I have since heard of quality issues with their 3D prints.
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Thanks for the response! I did order a Market-Garden book from them, and asked that it be sent with my Nam 68 to save on shipping - VERY WEIRDLY, I wasn’t charged anything for Market-Garden shipping - just the sale price of the book, which I received (and it’s just great!), and literally nothing in terms of contact.
I can only hope my Nam 68 book is inbound, sometime …
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As soon as the Nam books arrive at PSC HQ they will start shipping the lot out (which should be any moment - stuff doesn't get printed in the UK anymore - way too expensive - so takes a bit of time to arrive). Most people will not get a shipping notice. Heck, I have the whole collection and to date I never received one, but they still arrived. And when they didn't, Anita got it sorted.
Anita is indeed a bit swamped, but you have to keep note this isn't Warlord or GW. PSC is just a few people. If you don't get a reply to an email just sent another. I've had to do it a few times. Annoying? Yup.
The "only info on FB" isn't quite true, but they have 1 man Social media team and they are working very hard to get a dedicated forum up and running so you can avoid Zuckerbergs not so social cash cow.
The 3D prints bit, their printer did a few wrong when they started. But as it is in the age of the Internet, a few complaints get blown up to "everything sucks" in 24 hours. Nowadays no exploding models etc. Plenty of good remarks to be found online about it now, but bad news sells, good news gets snowed under. When you receive them, feel free to post and give a good honest opinion about them.
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I note that ‘Nam ‘68 is reviewed in the latest issue of WSS. It doesn’t say where the review copy came from, or whether it was a physical copy for that matter. More likely to have been a PDF, I suppose.
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Yeah, I read that review.
Sort of turned me off the rules, mainly because of the following:
- only US and VC troops covered (I'm sure they'll expand that in a cynical attempt to extort money out of us)
- limited to platoon actions (Vietnam was bigger than that)
It's put me off the boil.
I'm sure the rules do what they do very well. I'm just not so interested in what it is they're doing.
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Hmm. I admit the WSS review made me think the scope is rather narrower than I would have liked, but then if it tried to cover the whole war from the point of view of all participants and branches of service it would doubtless do some things much better than others (or would still be in the works.)
Had the pre-order not been the only means of getting the hardcover I would also most likely have waited to see how it was received rather than plunging in.
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Well the whole point of the rules is a narrow focus...
You are playing a the role of a US platoon in its tour of Duty in Vietnam.
It isn't by design to cover more, as we don't want it too... its whole point is to drive home the platoon experience.
It's all about period flavour and inducing the feel and encounters a platoon Commander of US troops might encounter for that year in Nam, and how the troops improve, get worse and go home...
It's a campaign, and it needed a tight focus to do it properly. That's why it's that narrow, it designed to be and due to that, it's 'feel' and narrative is far and above other more generic games.
So if you want to have that immersion, and almost an RPG feel, on top of tight tactical combat action, in a campaign setting, then you will enjoy Nam 68.
If you want rules that cover all manner of actions and forces, then try Ambush Valley... or the many other Vietnam rules. Lots of choice out there.
The rules are back from the printers and at PSC HQ, I'm still waiting for my copies, and they usually ship the customer orders before mine!
As for a cynical attempt to extort money... you clearly don't know Woz or myself, or how little money wargame books make... this isn't GW. :P
We just make rules we want to play, and sometimes publish them... and it seems alot of people enjoy Warwick's design ethos for wargames.
We don't have plans for any expansions as yet, it's taken a few years to get this book released, so any further offerings will be down to popularity and if people want them. We haven't thought much on that, except some initial wondering of ARVN, NVA or SF units, but for now, no plans.
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Good to hear the rules are back and might get shipped soon, piers! Can’t wait to get my copy.
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There is an AAR of sorts for these rules on "Dougie's Wargaming Blog" on Youtube. Although not a full coverage for reasons explained, it still gives some idea of how the system works, especially the activation mechanic which I have not seen before (and am unsure about TBH)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QViTZK5Urg&list=PLAzx36tYtD7-N2Wrn_pDdwRPysXNRU7dN&index=12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QViTZK5Urg&list=PLAzx36tYtD7-N2Wrn_pDdwRPysXNRU7dN&index=12)
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My copies landed this morning...
Very nice it is too!
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My copies landed this morning...
Very nice it is too!
Exciting!
I just ordered a whole bunch of TAG miniatures in anticipation of the rules coming soon!
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Thanks, I shall watch the AAR during my next painting session... :)
Mike Demana
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I received my copy today. On a cursory examination it appears very well produced, though the final dozen or so pages include game tokens, QRS, and roster sheets that one is apparently expected to cut out (judging by the dotted lines). This is my first experience of a PSC rule book, apart from Mortem et Gloriam, so I don’t know whether these are also available to download from the website. On my last visit, I certainly didn’t notice them but perhaps once the book is available to everyone these will be provided.
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My copy arrived today! Huzzah! Looks interesting, going to read through it now.
CP the IV: my recommendation would be wait a day or two and some helpful bod will produce an mdf set of tokens/chits and make the whole thing more civilised (I can’t cut up a book). Certainly what I’ve done with every Battlegroup chit set and I’ve been very happy with them. Maybe PSC are missing out and should get someone excellent like Warbases to do mdf sets they can sell officially.
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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Thank you, Andrew. Having no Battlegroup rules - other than the original set published by Warhammer Historical - I had no idea what support PSC provides in terms of downloads but MDF chits would certainly be preferable to anything that has to be printed and mounted on card. It would also be interesting to see what some engaged manufacturer comes up with for the Gory Death chit.
Another Andrew.
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I got my shipment notice today. Now, patience is required - which is not one of my strong suits. Just ask Da Boss... ;)
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The rather hackneyed title of the game troubled me initially. I pondered it for a while and concluded that the author must be a fan of Ted Chippington. ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z72pr0x1RKg
Interested to see people's reviews and get some sense of the playing dynamics. Hard to say from the video posted from above as it seemed that they were learning the game but I gained the impression that it was a system where the rules mechanisms are more obtrusive than I'd prefer.