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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: AlexanderTheOk on 15 August 2023, 01:51:26 PM
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I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue? I purchased a small "ink dropper" of AP Dark Tone as a substitute for Citadel Earth Shade and I haven't been impressed with the results. After drying the shade leaves an almost glossy finish. I've had a similar experience with Citadel shades when I didn't shake the container.
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I've noticed that with several of the AP tones. The blue got me recently, and yeah, the dark tone has left the figure with rather shiny hair ???
I'm assuming it will go matt again when I varnish it
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That's what I was afraid of. I use the wash to give depth to my basing material (after painting with a light brown) - any cheaper recommendations?
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For bases I use Vallejo sepia shade over their flat earth.
I find most of the Vallejo washes a bit too chalky, but the sepia one is okay. I bought a huge (200ml) bottle of it in its "dipping formula" guise, and just use a pipette to refill the dropper bottle when I need to.
It could be worth a try (better check with the dropper bottle first), but I'm sure others around here have their own approaches.
There are recipes out there for making your own washes, but I've never had much success with them :(
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They all dry to a nasty shine if you use them neat. If you water them down, and use a few layers, you can just about get away with it, although if you water them down too much, you risk getting chalky crevices (ooer).
The Citadel ones are more or less the same. Interestingly the old OOP GW washes seemed to dry matt for me, for the most part. But those days are gone.
It doesn’t bother me that much because all my figures get a generous coat of matt varnish anyway, which deals with the shine, and TBH I rarely use acrylic washes any more anyway, apart from for a few specific jobs (like hair).
I use mainly ultra-thinned oil paint washes these days - they usually dry flat matt, and give a lovely finish.
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Also, AP ‘Dark Tone’ is basically a black wash. Strong Tone would be better for groundwork (but will still dry shiny if applied neat).
I would say that for enhancing the texture in your basing, an ultra thinned oil wash of Burnt Umber or Raw Umber, would be perfect. And I mean a pinprick of oil paint to about 20 parts artists quality white spirit :)
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I pretty much never use the AP shades undiluted, which is to say I add 20 to 40% Vallejo Model Color Glaze Medium to it (and usually "break" the very dark tones (Dark and Strong tone) with either Light Tone, Soft Tone or Purple tone for warmth.
The only time I use it straight out of the bottle is for black-ish surfaces which I intend to be shiny.
I find it is quite good, if mixed with a spot of blue, for gunmetal or oiled steel effects.
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Okay I feel like I'm losing my mind... I was running low on my "old formula" of agrax earthshade and purchased a new pot. Just as others have mentioned it's got a satin sheen to it! I'm pretty disappointed in the AP/Citadel stuff atm.
What's something I can mix in with the shades to give them a matte finish??
@CaptainBlood, I've never used oil paint but I may have to give that a try.
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I use the wash to give depth to my basing material (after painting with a light brown) - any cheaper recommendations?
I just use a dark brown craft paint - Burnt Umber more often than not.
I do have variations but usually...
1. Very light sand colour - craft paint.
2. At least 24 hours later wash liberally with Burnt Umber or similar. (Plastic milk bottle top. Small blob of paint and lots of tap water well mixed.)
3. At least 24 hours later, dry brush with off-white. (Anything I have at hand as I'm brand-neutral. ;) )
The majority of acrylic craft paint I've ever used dries matt.
Take a look at my website for examples. Here's one.
(https://www.orctrader.co.uk/Images/Victoriana/Prussian_Jagers.jpg)
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I had teh same problem, but it was resolved with a coat of matt varnish spray at the end.
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Lovely figures Orctrader!
Some of my friends use gloss on purpose for its hard protection followed by something like Tester's Matt for the right look. If the figures start to look a tad shiny it's time for more matt.
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I've had varying results with Army Painter Dark Tone and other black washes.
I used to use it all the time, and it dried perfectly matt.
Then suddenly it started drying glossy, and not flowing nicely. I asked if anyone else was experiencing the same thing, seems it was just me. Even emailed Army Painter to ask if they'd changed their recipe or something and they very kindly sent me some replacement bottles, but they were all glossy. So I reluctantly looked for a different product.
I settled on Citadel Nuln Oil. Pretty much the same thing, slightly different but I soon got used to it - dries nice and matt.
But then after using that for a few years, it seems that has recently changed too!
So a few months back I got hold of a few different black washes to do some comparisons.
Turns out the Army Painter Dark Tone had gone back to being matt again??
Here are my results, from a few months ago:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6Ct0m4eLCotjd6BAhBrWLndY8dnZBrIipvR8MLh_YS-IhWmP_vlHosn2WHntblquO7pLqWFi1-9LrTPypwbzGRVoK2e8sQdeYKK2k24j5mIsGE-9HvlUxDOVmUqIuHtKOM6p-0prZDurguhnzIqy8dnHmKYFOZC2N6Di75g34fu4QSoM5xktLqIaB/s1208/darkwashes1.png)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg19SJNTv0YeO0xROBpi0Tq9lEiz-F4Ncq8np9i__vHItC0BNelgcKLwcJRfKfZ-WHK4U8q8k7wTdz6BqAIkQBP4IY1hC_Cl1EMFczhCRm-N-KMluPundgIMiKCtweYA9Dg5F7AK4LyfOkn_YbNhvVcZrUMkB5N4hjPauM5Cn_qZ1-oTjT2Gxol1m6I/s922/darkwashes2.png)
Going by that I'd say they are all rather similar, the differences between old and new Nuln Oil are there but not huge, any satin or gloss finish will be dealt with by the varnish stage. Seems now the AP Dark Tone is the most matt looking, and looks the best.
So yes products do seem to change at times, Army Painter has been very glossy in the past for me.
My tip - buy a few different products, try them all out, find the one you like!
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What's something I can mix in with the shades to give them a matte finish??
Matt medium should help. It’s available from the likes of Liquitex & Vallejo.
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OrcTrader your figures look great! I ended up buying the supplies to make my own wash. Overall, the results were slightly better than the new Citadel formula. What I'm after is a finish similar to the AP dark tone/Vallejo results Charlie replied above. Mainly because I use the wash to stain the base colors and then go back with highlights.
I ended up purchasing a couple washes from monument hobbies - they claim to have a matte finish.
FYI I corrected the title of this thread as I realized I have strong tone and not dark tone by AP.
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Out of curiosity I purchased AP Dark Tone on the way home from work yesterday. While it's darker I think it's a better wash than the Strong Tone and has a more matte finish. I'm considering making a thread comparing all of the major washes.
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I mix the AP inks with Vallejo Brown Glaze and water in a pot, to make a nice brown wash. I do the same with the darker inks and brown and black glazes for a darker wash.
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For anyone interested I tested Vallejo's Dark brown Wash and Pro Acryl's Brown Wash. Vallejo's wash is very thin but provided decent coverage with a matte finish. Pro Acryl's wash had more medium and a consistency similar to the old citadel formula. I'll be using Pro Acryl's moving forward...
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1. Testors Matt varnish
2. Tamiya Flat Clear varnish
3. Mr Hobby Matt Topcoat
In that order of preference. Al the usual caveats about temperature, humidity and distance when spraying varnish apply but it works every time.
There used to be a more economical option from a local DIY paint chain, essentially twice the can size for the same price the but their matt varnish is almost impossible to find these days.
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There used to be a more economical option from a local DIY paint chain, essentially twice the can size for the same price the but their matt varnish is almost impossible to find these days.
I have tried a couple of big box store brand clear matte sprays but I found it was very easy to end up with a satin finish if I wasn't careful. In the end I stooped using them as they were too finicky.