Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Ethelred the Almost Ready on September 28, 2023, 04:33:40 AM
-
I have been a bit stuck with what I want to do with wargaming. The time it takes to get things sent to New Zealand and my current lack of enthusiasm for painting has impacted on gaming. This leaves me somewhat conflicted, as there are games I want to play but I don't think I want to commit to a lot of painting.
I had made a post some time ago thinking about either mid 14thd or mid to late 15th century Italy. This interest came about from reading both the Tom Swan and Chivalry series of Christian Cameron and from my love of Italy (or possibly just Italian wine).
What I would like is a skirmish game where I can have a small retinue fighting skirmishes (small forces is about all I am up to painting). Some of these would be in proper combat, mounted and in full harness etc, but some would be urban brawls. Possibly a bit like Gangs of Rome but would instead be Gangs of Florence.
I am not too fussy whether I use 15 or 28mm figures, but I suspect 28mm will give me more options. I am uncertain whether the earlier or later time period give me the better options for what I need. I prefer metal but will do plastic, especially if kitbashing will give me the look I want.
Essentially, I need Italian and foreign mercenaries – knights, archers, cross bows, militia etc. I also need armed men in civilian clothes. These wouldn’t just be thugs or armed peasants but armed gentlemen/ knights in their city clothes. Townsfolk are a must – men and women and both commoners and the wealthy. Terrain is also needed – Florence and Rome might be easier than Venice. Oshiro’s Italian town is very inspiring.
As far as rules go, I don’t know how adaptable Gangs of Rome would be and how solo-friendly it is. Song of Shadows and Dust from Ganesha Games sounds like it might work.
With all that as background and with the difficulty of getting armed and unarmed civilians, what period do you think is easier to achieve?
Where would I best be able to buy suitable figures? Foundry have some civilians that look OK and Tabletop Art have an interesting collection but probably more suitable for the earlier period.
I was thinking some of the Perry European Army figures might work. Some of Captain Harlock’s bodies are without armour. I would need unarmoured arms without weapons, a lot with daggers and the occasional longsword smuggled onto the streets.
Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.
-
For rules perhaps try Never Mind the Ruckus - in development but based on a lesser figure count for Never Mind The Billhooks. Latest version of NMTB will give you an idea of Italian figures.
-
Maybe Tribal (second edition) could work for your games: it includes the former supplement (Brutal) for urban gang brawls, including late medieval-Renaissance Italy. I think Eureka did some dueling figures that can be used for it too
-
Gangs of Rome could well work I'd say with some house rules for harness and weapons, but check out Force of Virtue.
I stumbled across it one day on Youtube. I haven't looked much more into it but it did grab my attention.
I think it may be what you are looking for https://masterstrokegames.com/
-
If there are not too "renaissance", you can try to contact "res tactica": https://www.facebook.com/restatticaminiature they scuplted a set of figures in various duel poses according to ancient italian swordmanship manual.
-
For figures, a mix of the Perry metals and plastics would give you a lot of options. Have a look at Mirliton- they do a Florentine parade, if I recall correctly. Might find your civilians, there.
-
You know that Eureka do a dedicated range of Italian civvies included armed versions, duelists and thugs, in 28mm?
https://www.eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_138&sort=3a&page=3
You can also use some of their Italian wars and 15th C foot figures.
https://www.eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_909_756_757&sort=3a
https://www.eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_909&sort=3a
Postage is going to be cheaper across the ditch. ;)
IIRC there's a tribal supplement for the period, failing that Donnybrook could be made to work.
-
Argad rules is intended for unformal skirmishes and brawls; although not much tested for solo gaming.
The generic rules will soon be updated for small details. The 14th century reference sheet works as well for the 15th C.
-
I have a similar project on the shelf. I got excited after watching the series "The Borgias" but only completed a few figures, including two of the main characters, Cesare Borgia and his henchman Micheletto:
(https://i.postimg.cc/HL0W1kx6/Cesare-Micheletto.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8F5cJn2/F60-A7-F51-1-C5-E-4098-859-F-2520-C8799-F1-B.png) (https://postimg.cc/9r1cTFdn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nVwQPV4h/EDBF6385-8775-4-C3-A-B731-C67-AD00-E7403.png) (https://postimg.cc/23h6qD9s)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sXmx9dWk/3-B391-A4-F-CD6-B-41-B7-8-BB7-CC1240-B4-E664.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9R4cCkJb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3RYWvJkj/52315456-731-F-454-D-B199-3719-B0334-F59.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9c2NvYy)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9XSrB824/9-B4509-F8-8482-41-A2-AA55-7-B691-AE236-BB.png) (https://postimg.cc/14GmmKfP)
I found it fairly easy to find suitable figures from Foundry, TAG, Perry, GW etc that fit the bill, sometimes with a bit of conversion. I also plan to use these with a project for the "Sack of Rome" in 1527. It was a lot of fun building this pope from a Wizard and a grenadier cap:
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMM9N5kr/Borgia-pope.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fGLVvym/IMG-7155.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJ8mypft)
-
I'd go ~~1500ish, using the Eureka duelists, various sets of Landsknechts/Renaissance citizens (Warlord, Casting Room, etc), the TAG Italian civilian gun crew and with sufficient squinting maybe some Foundry Swashbucklers (more 1570s-1600s) and less 'grimdark' warhammer old world types
-
The Eureka figures are spot on for what you would want to do.
-
What you described is the wanting is the game, "Force of Virtue".
With it's first setting being 1490s Rome. It's first 5 factions are Swiss, French, Spanish, Landsknecht and Condottieri. They are also currently working on a WOTRs British Isle setting, but will continue to expand to other renaissance settings. (Venice, Florence, German city states, German Ritter, German peasants rebels, Balkans Turks and all that)
Missions are like Steal this art, assassinate this banker, fight for control of a market squares, drop off a bribe..etc.
Over and intro video about the rules, setting and idea behind the game.
https://youtu.be/VoPNZt3ppC4?si=W0y-3siAxkM_LLo7
A 3rd party playing the free PDF campaign to get used to the rules.
https://youtu.be/l_hNlf0h2rc?si=Pf24kdVvtME9tKJ4
https://www.facebook.com/groups/802543670335178/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT
https://masterstrokegames.com/#:~:text=Force%20of%20Virtue%20is%20a,landscape%20of%20the%20Eternal%20City.
-
Here are some photos of a game.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200208-60174959.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200208-60175330.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200209-60176387.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200209-6017754.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200209-60178944.jpeg)
-
Here are some photos of a game.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200208-60174959.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200208-60175330.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200209-60176387.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200209-6017754.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/60/1637-280923200209-60178944.jpeg)
This is really cool stuff!
-
That's a gorgeous looking table :-* :-*
-
Wish I could take credit for it. But those were ripped from a AAR page. Done by the creater of this game. He gave me permission to use them on discord.
But this is the AAR. https://masterstrokegames.com/battle-report-multiplayer/
-
Thanks for all the answers so far.
Force of Virtue looks interesting. All the cards etc make it a little bit of an investment.
Still unsure about figures. The Eureka ones are good, but I think the puffy breeches and codpieces make them later than my period, from what I can ascertain. Still, Valley Boy lives just down the road and has miniatures for the later Italian Wars and so going to this later period may be a better option.
I think the Perry Miniatures would make 1450-60 more viable than trying to do 1360ish, especially for unarmoured combatants. Civilians seem to have a smattering across all the time periods I'm considering.
In modifying miniatures, especially the plastic ones, are there suitable unarmoured arms (daggers, swords) from other kits or in the various Perry kits?
My main characters will need to be armoured on a horse, on foot, and unarmoured on foot.
-
Across the perry late medieval and 100 years war range you should be covered. But to have unarmed sword and dagger you might have to source them some where else if you want alot of the.
I have seen folks take extra swords from many other fantasy and historical kits as well. Be it Gripping beast Irish, Victrix, and oathmark plastics.
-
Brilliant! I wasn't sure I'd be interested in this thread, but boy was I wrong! Gorgeous game!
-
A great setup and table.
-
In modifying miniatures, especially the plastic ones, are there suitable unarmoured arms (daggers, swords) from other kits or in the various Perry kits?
My main characters will need to be armoured on a horse, on foot, and unarmoured on foot.
I just remembered that TAG, gripping beast might also have some metal daggers and knives in separate kits.
-
No love for En Garde! ?
https://www.ospreypublishing.com/us/en-garde-9781472810748/
It is for 1500s to early 1700s.
It is a cleaned up version of Ronin, which is an excellent 5-12 models per side skirmish game. It is a highly adaptable ruleset, which we've used from Greek to Medieval (with some modifications where needed).
You could also try:
Fistful of Lead: Might and Melee
https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/collections/rule-books/products/might-melee-fantasy-trilogy-book-i-printed
It is part of the excellent Fistful of Lead series, and is designed with the Ancient to Musketeer crowd in mind. There are also expansions and rules for fantasy if you want to meld that in. In general, FFoL has become my go to skirmish ruleset. We play Trojan War, Peloponnesian War, Dark Ages, Northern Crusades, Samurai, and Sci-fi using the various rulebooks. The basic mechanics are all very similar, with only small tweaks for period or scale needed.
-
Hi. Thanks for the ongoing replies to this thread. In particular, thanks for the nice photos from Captain Harlock and Traveller.
For the moment I am using a modified Sellswords and Spellslingers since this is designed for solo play. I have also started a trial of Never Mind the Ruckus.
Maniac: En Garde rules are stated to be for 16th century onwards, but I am sure they must work for 15th. I have Dragon Rampant, do they follow similar mechanisms for activation? If so, this might work well solo. I do have Might and Melee. I will have to take another look at these.
-
I started using En Garde and I like them a lot. Especially the mechanism for melee where each figure has a combat pool of a numbet of attacks defences as well as different attributes. They ate perfect for small bands of swordfighters ;)
-
Hi. Thanks for the ongoing replies to this thread. In particular, thanks for the nice photos from Captain Harlock and Traveller.
For the moment I am using a modified Sellswords and Spellslingers since this is designed for solo play. I have also started a trial of Never Mind the Ruckus.
Maniac: En Garde rules are stated to be for 16th century onwards, but I am sure they must work for 15th. I have Dragon Rampant, do they follow similar mechanisms for activation? If so, this might work well solo. I do have Might and Melee. I will have to take another look at these.
En Garde would work just fine for the 1400s. Activation is similar to Ronin. You roll for initiative each round, and then activate based on that, with each player activating one model at a time. That is, player 1 goes, then player 2, then player 1, then player 2, etc. until all models have activated.
Combat, as noted, is rather unique. Each model has a combat pool from which they select attacks, enhanced attacks, initiative buff for combat, and enhanced defenses. All models in the fight reveal simultaneously. This leads to a bit of strategy in how you break up your pool for the fight (a CP 3 model might pick, initiative, attack, and enhanced defense or enhanced attack and enhanced defense, or enhanced attack and attack, etc). The fight then rolls for initiative, winner going first and then proceeding in descending initiative order. Spears can be a big game changer, often letting scrubbier models catch up to more elite. Oh, and I forgot to note, the winner of initiative simply picks the first action, you then run in descending order swapping out every action until all actions are done. So even if you pick two attacks, you only make one, then the other model does their action, then you make your second attack. So it isn't like herohammer where the death star rolls up and kills everything in a horde before the horde swings back. Solo combat, yes it can mean you kill them in the opening move, but in group combat some model will be swinging back, and if you enhance your defence when defending it is challenging to secure an instant kill.
It would work fine for late 14th century forward. We've used it for Dark Age and Ancient Greek with no issues (modify the shield rules a little, ban firearms, and bob's your uncle).
-
https://manapress.com.au/pages/brutal
Not played them myself but I'm told this Tribal variant is a pretty sound and simple system.