Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: blacksmith on October 02, 2023, 04:56:15 PM
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Hello,
I've tried a fair number of WWII rulesets but now I'm looking for something simple, fast and yet tactical enough. I want to play with 2 or 3 companies of infantry and tanks per side; with 1 tank representing 1 tank and 1 base of infantry a squad.
Simple, fast and with infantry and tanks?
TIA :)
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WRG WW2 are always worth a look. I’ve seen some interesting videos of Crossfire in play, but the rules are not cheap. Have you Googled ‘free wargames rules ww2’?
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I would recommend PSC's Battlegroup except they don't meet your infantry criteria. What about Great Escape Games' "Iron Cross". I haven't played them myself but have tried what I assume are their Cold War equivalents. Quite a few reviews online.
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Have a pop at Fistfu :)ll of Lead.
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Blitzkrieg Commander would work - it can be played at the scale you suggest - and will happily handle the number of units you are suggesting.
Iron Cross is a fun set of rules, has an interesting activation / reaction mechanism. But it’s more a platoon a side.
Battlegroup is a very good set of rules, it blends together higher level elements very nicely with what is effectively a reinforced platoon scale game. It does give a good feel of WWII.
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Thank you very much for your responses and help. I've played several times Battlegroup and I like it but it is a bit slow if you ask me; I'm looking for something faster. I also played Crossfire but it can't handle tanks very well and besides I'm not quite fond of its system though it is brilliant. I'd say Blitzkrieg Commander is for bigger battles than I have in mind. I've also tried long ago fistful of lead but I never liked SOBH mechanics. I didn't like Iron Cross neither.
But please, keep telling rulesets I may like for what I'm looking for.
I haven't tried FUBAR and it looks interesting; have you play it? is it any good?
Thanks again for the help ;)
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Fistful of Lead, isn’t part of the Ganesha Games SoBH range. It’s a completely separate game, with a card driven activation mechanism. The Bigger Battles version possibly could be used for what you are suggesting, but it’s very cinematic in its take.
Can you expand out what scale of game you are thinking of playing - as your 3 coys of 3 platoons of 3 squads - gives about 30 stands of infantry a side, which sounds a pretty good size for a BKC game.
At this stage I’m thinking Flames of War?
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I've been testing out Fistful Of Lead with my 28mm WW2 figures the past 3-4 days and so far I like it. I downloaded the CORE rule book for this test.
I've been using some homemade rules (dice and action markers) I beat together a year or so ago using bits from established rules already out there and while they work good, I thought I'd try something more mainstream.
Playing solo, I find that more than 5 figures per side is a bit too much for this old brain to track. Maybe once I really get accustomed to the rules I'll go for full size squads.
I've tried to stay away from rules using cards and dice (I prefer dice only) but I'm getting the hang of FfOL.
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Iron Cross is a good choice fitting your criteria. Funny we just played it last night drafting up an AAR at the moment.
It is a bit undercooked, I hope GEG revisit it and bring into line with their other era versions 1914 and 7 days to the Rhine, I have enhancements if you go down the Iron Cross path that I can share.
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By the way PSC are working on a new set called I think "Battlegroup Commander". My assumption is that it will adopt the infantry rules from their NORTHAG system which uses 1 base = a fireteam rather than individually based infantry. This will certainly speed up the game. However no idea of a release date. I also predict it will be aimed at 10mm or smaller scales.
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O group fits you criteria. Technically 1 tank represents 2 but to be honest it plays like 1 : 1
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Just remembered 'One Hour War-games' by Neil Thomas. Plays at one base = one squad as you require.
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I would agree that O Group meets most of your criteria but maybe not "simple". One of my mates thinks they are brilliant, others pretty unintelligible. Caveat Emptor.
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O group is a good game, I’d agree its fairly complex, but very playable. But it’s pretty small compared to OPs criteria, a couple of platoons of infantry and a handful of tanks is a typical game. And due to the nature of the command system, you can’t get much more deployed on the table and be able to activate enough stuff.
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Just 'cos it's 'old skool', don't laugh at Gavin Lyles' 'Operation Warboard'. They've stood the test of time in my 'umble opinion. Great time to be had pushing yer toys about to them rools!
:-*
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Another cogitation on FFofL. I'm thinking of getting, three figure bases, activated as one, then taking their medicine as it comes. When there's a kill shot inflicted removing one figure. That way yer five Tom's become fifteen heroes!
:)
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I must admit I have enjoyed my games of O Group when my mate has run them and explained the rules. Also 2FLs sell some very good scenario books.
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O group is a good game, I’d agree its fairly complex, but very playable. But it’s pretty small compared to OPs criteria, a couple of platoons of infantry and a handful of tanks is a typical game. And due to the nature of the command system, you can’t get much more deployed on the table and be able to activate enough stuff.
I think you're referring to I Ain't Be Shot Mum, TFL's company-per-side game, O Group is ~ a battalion per side.
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Fistful of Lead, isn’t part of the Ganesha Games SoBH range. It’s a completely separate game, with a card driven activation mechanism. The Bigger Battles version possibly could be used for what you are suggesting, but it’s very cinematic in its take.
Can you expand out what scale of game you are thinking of playing - as your 3 coys of 3 platoons of 3 squads - gives about 30 stands of infantry a side, which sounds a pretty good size for a BKC game.
At this stage I’m thinking Flames of War?
Yes, you're right, I mistook for another I think called Flying Lead by Rich Jones. I don't like FOW but Thank you
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Iron Cross is a good choice fitting your criteria. Funny we just played it last night drafting up an AAR at the moment.
It is a bit undercooked, I hope GEG revisit it and bring into line with their other era versions 1914 and 7 days to the Rhine, I have enhancements if you go down the Iron Cross path that I can share.
Exactly my feelings. TBH, I only played it once but it just didn't click. Thank you
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By the way PSC are working on a new set called I think "Battlegroup Commander". My assumption is that it will adopt the infantry rules from their NORTHAG system which uses 1 base = a fireteam rather than individually based infantry. This will certainly speed up the game. However no idea of a release date. I also predict it will be aimed at 10mm or smaller scales.
That could be interesting
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O group fits you criteria. Technically 1 tank represents 2 but to be honest it plays like 1 : 1
I'll check O group, many thanks.
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O group is a good game, I’d agree its fairly complex, but very playable. But it’s pretty small compared to OPs criteria, a couple of platoons of infantry and a handful of tanks is a typical game. And due to the nature of the command system, you can’t get much more deployed on the table and be able to activate enough stuff.
This could be the game I'm looking for, unless is that complex as you say, thank you
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O group is a good game, I’d agree its fairly complex, but very playable. But it’s pretty small compared to OPs criteria, a couple of platoons of infantry and a handful of tanks is a typical game. And due to the nature of the command system, you can’t get much more deployed on the table and be able to activate enough stuff.
Wrong. It’s a battalion per side so 3 companies made up of 3 platoons with each platoon 3 stands which are each a section, ie exactly what OP requested.
You can add a whole company of tanks if you like.
The rules are a bit chromey but generally fairly straight forward. The rule book is sub optimal however making your first few games a flicking exercise.
Generally you won’t be able to activate everything on every turn in common with other TFL rules.
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Not sure why I mis-remembered the scale of O Group - so I went back to find some photos of games - and discovered it has been 18ths since I played!
(https://i.imgur.com/dWO71QN.jpg)
This is a photo from one of the scenarios from the 1940 pack. We found that typically only around 50-60% of our troops were deployed. Often 2 platoons from a company and just 2 of the 3 companies. You just haven’t got enough activation tokens to bring more stuff on and move it, and once deployed it just becomes more targets. We did enjoy O Group games, but the games often felt a bit small compared to what your overall force was
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I like the mechanic of holding a company in reserve and deploying it to take over from a bashed up one. In effect you play it two up and one in reserve, both with platoons and companies. As units get degraded others take it on. You don’t just plonk everything you have on the board and blaze away.
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Yes, it seems a good mechanism but many rulesets today limit orders/activations to force the player to make choices. Battlegroup uses a randomly generated number of orders per turn and I suspect this will be modified a la Northag in "Battlegroup Commander". Some players hate this others love it!
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I think O group may very well fit my needs. I'll definately check it out. Many thanks gents.
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Yes, it seems a good mechanism but many rulesets today limit orders/activations to force the player to make choices. Battlegroup uses a randomly generated number of orders per turn and I suspect this will be modified a la Northag in "Battlegroup Commander". Some players hate this others love it!
O Group has an explicit order fir consolidation. A reserve company in effect takes over from an onboard one. It is this combined with the action restriction which leads to the 2 up 1 back being the actual sensible thing to do as well as the historical thing to do.
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Another very good rule set at the same scale as O group is ‘Battlefront:WW2’ from the publishers of Fire & Fury. Been out for many years now. Less complex than O group and has the best artillery rules and integration between armour and infantry of any rules I’ve played.
Lots of info over at fireeandfury.com
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Hey Blacksmith,
Can I ask re “ I've tried a fair number of WWII rulesets but now” are you playing these tests solitaire or face to face?
Cheers
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Fireball Forwards.
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Hey Blacksmith,
Can I ask re “ I've tried a fair number of WWII rulesets but now” are you playing these tests solitaire or face to face?
Cheers
Hi, I played solo only those geared for that, like Nuts! by Two Hour Wargames. Others like Battlegroup, Chain of Command, PBI, command decision, Five core Company Command, Five men at Kursk, Crossfire, Disposable Heroes or BKC, player vs player.
I'm looking for something with infantry, tanks and artillery like in Battlegroup, but simpler and faster.
Last night I read FUBAR 5th edition and its alpha version for tanks and I liked it. Now I have to try it.
Cheers,
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Fireball Forwards.
I was interested by that one when it was released but can't remember why I decided not to buy in the end. I'll check it out again. Thx.
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I haven't played it in years, but I remembered Fireball Forward being far smaller in scale than what the OP was looking for. Maybe that was just the games I was playing, but we were doing platoon-ish level stuff, not company. It was a very unique set, with some cool ideas, and some slightly bizarre ones from what I remember.
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Fireball Forward is at a lower scale. It has an initiative system like Crossfire, but we found it a very fiddly set to play, with some very strange features. Vehicle rules not great. Some nice ideas but somehow didn’t work well for us.
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Fireball Forward is at a lower scale. It has an initiative system like Crossfire, but we found it a very fiddly set to play, with some very strange features. Vehicle rules not great. Some nice ideas but somehow didn’t work well for us.
Just save me from checking it, thanks ;)