Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: BountyHunter on October 02, 2023, 08:22:55 PM
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Looking to dabble in VSF with some British on Mars type scenarios maybe 50 figures a side or so. Can anyone recommend suitable rules? Photo for attention and flavor!
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Check out "In Her Majesty's Name", the second edition with the purplish cover. Very flexible rules you can customize to your heart's content
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I would recommend the Fistful of Lead stable of games.
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I still think that the GASLIGHT sets of rules provide a very good VSF skirmish system.
Mike
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You could try FUBAR VSF, it is a free download so nothing to lose…it’s my go to VSF set of rules…my thoughts on the rules below…
https://captaindarlingsminiaturesemporium.blogspot.com/2015/12/fubar-vsf-rulesyep-another-rant-on-rules.html (https://captaindarlingsminiaturesemporium.blogspot.com/2015/12/fubar-vsf-rulesyep-another-rant-on-rules.html)
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We are using The Men Who Would be Kings with mods for VSF weapons and vehicles.
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I second GASLIGHT, but FUBAR and the Fistful of Lead: Bigger Battles work great, too. I've played all three and enjoyed them all.
I don't know the history of the FUBAR VSF rules,but I feel like GASLIGHT is part of their DNA.
If you're not using vehicles, jet packs, wacky weapons (that you can't fudge as rifles), or that sort of thing, The Men Who Would Be Kings can work right out of the box (so to speak).
I recently used the free One Page Rules to play an encounter between French Foreign Legion vs Lost World Lizard Folk and they worked fine (I used Fantasy but the Grimdark would work as well). The hard part was finding something to function as a Gatling gun in the OPR force builder.
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I would recommend the Fistful of Lead stable of games.
Seconded. FFOL Bigger Battles will easily handle up to 10 units per side or even more. Units could be a single figure or a mob of 20+
Even regular ffol will handle more than 50 figures… just add more cards to the activation deck a two deck game can handle a hundred figs but the team play would be essential.
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I would also suggest FFOL.
That being said, I do have In Her Majesty's Name, second edition hardcover, for sale on eBay, if you're interested.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115934561495
I just never used the rules. The book is really nice though. A lot of inspiration.
For me, FFOL is entirely more flexible and easy to customize and get on the table quickly.
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I've tried Soldier's Companion, MWWBK, and Death in the Dark Continent. Out of the three I currently prefer Soldier's Companion.
I found MWWBK a bit too binary in a typical "natives" vs "Europeans" battle. Either the natives get destroyed by the Europeans' fire, or they close to melee and massacre the Europeans. I am no expert in the rules and there could be subtleties and nuances we missed, but that was my impression.
I liked DitDC, but there is a peculiarity in how charges work that rubbed me up the wrong way. Basically, fire happens after moves, and if defenders' fire is good enough to degrade the chargers' morale, you "rewrite history" and move the chargers back out to a certain distance. I don't like this feature so much. That is a very personal reaction though and it's by no means a bad game (it's also a beautiful book and a great resource on Africa with dozens of army lists). You need plenty of terrain and smart tactics for the "natives" to have a chance.
I found Soldier's Companion gives a more interesting to-and-fro battle. The key reason is the morale rules. Units take penalties to their morale throws based on hits, not kills. So units can get suppressed/thrown back, but then come back for another go. Plus I like the Space:1889 setting.
SC gets knocked because in each turn only one side gets initiative and the other is restricted to reaction. Regular armies get a bonus for initiative. In practice I have never found this much of an issue.
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I also give a nod to the venerable Soldiers Companion.
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...
I don't know the history of the FUBAR VSF rules,but I feel like GASLIGHT is part of their DNA...
I'm pretty sure our esteemed comrade Froggy the Great wrote them while we were running the Atlantis Campaign on here about 12 years ago.
That was before IHMN was our, for most of us GASLIGHT was our go-to ruleset, so there may be some influence.
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Sorry, double post because I'm an idiot.
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Xenos Rampant!
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Xenos Rampant would work, but IMHO it lacks period detail that would make it inherently VSF. Kind of a DIY for the period.
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aren't all these rules sort of a Do It Yourself?????
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aren't all these rules sort of a Do It Yourself?????
More or less, some more, some way less.
Back to the question, for fifty figs a side, I would find several challenging, not impossible, but some give lovely texture that gets lost with larger numbers. IHMN seems one, though I am sure others would greatly take me to task.
GASLIGHT has a section called Battles by GASLIGHT, originalally a separate book, that makes adjustments for large fracas. Oh, there's supposed to be a period after each capital letter, but I couldn't be bothered.
FFOL doesn't have a specific VSF published, though it started as an Old West shoot out, but it has a play test add on somewhere. I assume it has been expanded since. So, for now, might require some of the work mentioned above.
MWWBK is an example of not being directly VSF, but with plenty of folk using and sharing their adaptions.
Anyone try When the Navy Walked?
Doug
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I would argue that the Men Who Would Be Kings would be a better fit than Xenos Rampant.
Maybe home-bodge the two together?
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“In Her Magesty’s Name” by the Ministry of Gentlemanly Gamers would be a good skirmish game in the FFOL range. FFOL is really quite VSF if you want to use Galactic Heroes or the Big Battles supplements. Most things are just reskins anyways, no real difference in the game mechanics.
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The "Problem" with In Her Majesty's Name is that is relies on Pre-made warbands, and does not really tell you how to make your own. At least the Osprey version, perhaps the new version is different?
Here is my thoughts on In Her Majesty's Name from Osprey:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-in-her-majestys-name-osprey.html
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The "Problem" with In Her Majesty's Name is that is relies on Pre-made warbands, and does not really tell you how to make your own. At least the Osprey version, perhaps the new version is different?
Here is my thoughts on In Her Majesty's Name from Osprey:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-in-her-majestys-name-osprey.html
Okay, I'll start off by pointing out the omnibus review missed the Gothic book.
As many opposed dice systems already have multiple dice modifiers, and are oft stretched to 'roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save,' I find that complaint at least YMMV, and, personally, weak sauce.
The lack of build-your-own may be more telling, but I would say the large number of pre-generated bands, with tweaking options puts it on a par with those with creation tables and a few examples. We end up doing some creative work anyway.
"I can make some sweeping assumptions. For example, this game is a skirmish game with some heroic elements" is probably the most telling caution for the original post. I still think the delicious granularity will get in the way. For fifty figs per...
However, I also have not seen the second edition; I've owned three copies of the first, and they seem to evaporate in my hands.
Doug
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The 2nd edition of IHMN does have a comprehensive points calculation system to build your own bands. Although it seems designed for smaller forces of a dozen or so per side, we have played games with 3 or 4 vehicles and 25/30 men each without too many issues.
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I’d like to throw my hat into the ring please…
I’m building up a collection of VSF figures and kit.
I’m going to go down the FFOL route.
We’ve had plenty of fun with these rules over the years, using them for tons of periods.
If you check out the barons blog for FFOL there are several played out examples of VSF games on there.
As was said earlier in this subject, there are no specific VSF rules from FFOL YET !
From asking questions, I think they might be on the horizon ?
My plan currently is to use FFOL Bigger Battles, along with add one from their sci-fi rules.
Fingers crossed we can have some fun with this period of gaming.
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There will be VSF supplement for FfoL in the not too distant future ;)
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Okay, I'll start off by pointing out the omnibus review missed the Gothic book.
As many opposed dice systems already have multiple dice modifiers, and are oft stretched to 'roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save,' I find that complaint at least YMMV, and, personally, weak sauce.
Doug
Thanks for reading!
I do mention the Gothic book at the end.
As for the dice system, it was a preference. I try to be upfront about my preferences though. However, I do find a lot of the "1 roll to rule them all" come across very clunky in writing. In action, they may work a lot better, but without a strong mentor it can be tough to figure out how it all works. IHMN was the same for me.
That said, I can see IHMN would be a lot of fun, but I was left wanting as written.
Back on Topic......
I think the word "skirmish" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this thread. For example, IHMN is clearly a model-vs-model game. Xenos Rampant is actually unit-vs-unit. That means they play very different and the requirement for play are very different as well.
What are we looking for here? M-v-M or Unit-vs-Unit?
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We might also want man (hero) vs Unit action.
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Not to hijack the thread, but what do you feel are the defining characteristics of Victoriana Sci-fi that you look for in a skirmish game? Is it a certain mechanic? Certain unit types? A philosophy of play?
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Not to hijack the thread, but
If you don't want to hijack the thread, then don't. lol
It's pretty Easy not to ;)
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For VSF it is pretty easy to use re-skins of any Space opera.
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If you don't want to hijack the thread, then don't. lol
It's pretty Easy not to ;)
Fair enough. I will start a new thread.
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It’s hardly a hijack…more an expansion and clarification.
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It’s hardly a hijack…more an expansion and clarification.
Have to agree here; while it might be an invitation to a broader discussion, it stands as an excellent question for the OP.
We oft have to gauge original intent, such as 'does 50 per side indicate by individuals or units?'
Thanks for reading!
I do mention the Gothic book at the end.
Have read many on the site, thanks for sharing.
Fair dinkem. At university, the profs seldom could get me to rigorously search footnotes.
Doug
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Back to the original question. Wiley Games will soon be releasing our VSF title. Using our tried and true mechanics, this volume will allow you to game anything from small groups of 5-8 miniatures with 2-8 players to massive games with dozens of units and contraptions. Completely scalable. You want your hero to take on a whole unit of Martian hill tribesmen, easy. Aeronef dropping bombs on the unsuspecting natives, very doable.
We'll have rules for underwater battles, Fleet scale air battles, dino hunts, all using the same mechanics.
Technically you don't have to wait til luanch. The small skirmish rules are based on Galactic Heroes while the largr Battles use the Bigger Battles rule, mentioned by a few others previously.
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Interesting, very interesting, BUT when can we get the VSF rules?
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Interesting, very interesting, BUT when can we get the VSF rules?
You’re not a patient man are you? lol
The man said soon and all good things come to those who wait.
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You’re not a patient man are you? lol
Dear Lord, give everyone the gift of patience,
but I want my gift...RIGHT NOW !!!!!!
lol lol lol
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I want my rules right now!
.... but I will paint the models for it tomorrow.
lol lol lol lol
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Fistful of Lead - for the win. Just played in a game today, three players, 25 figures all told, took just a bit over two hours. Fun game for me - and I got waxed. Now that is a sure sign of a good set of rules when getting your butt handed to you is still fun.
If anything alarms me about FFOL it is having too many variations out there, maybe going forward all that is really needed is modest supplements to adapt already existing rules to a given arena - like VSF. I know, I know, how dare I interfere. But, heck, the rules already cover the gamut - Bigger Battles can cover from Stone Age to Star Wars and everything in between. Or so say I!
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I think the variety of different books is more 'nice to have' than 'must have'.
Saying that, I've got a few, plus a couple of lovely decks of cards.
It doesn't look like you can get printed copies in the UK now which is a shame.
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Caliver Books sell the FFoL range in the UK.
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Caliver Books sell the FFoL range in the UK.
Wow. Thank you.
I got all my stuff from you a few years past and thought they were no longer available.
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If anything alarms me about FFOL it is having too many variations out there, maybe going forward all that is really needed is modest supplements to adapt already existing rules to a given arena - like VSF. I know, I know, how dare I interfere. But, heck, the rules already cover the gamut - Bigger Battles can cover from Stone Age to Star Wars and everything in between. Or so say I!
I keep making variations because I keep getting asked to. It seems there is a distinct lack of imagination out there. The rules all work from the same core mechanics and people can't seem to grasp the traits work for any setting. "Eagle Eye" for example could be good eyesight, a futuristic scope on your mk. V blaster or a cybernetic eye. So I'll keep taking money from people who haven't figured it out yet.
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Baron,
More power to you if people would prefer their money in your pocket! lol
But my concern is people getting confused by so many variants. Though I admit to having many of the variants myself - the simplicity of PDFs and a 'shopping spree' on your rules! Just realized with Bigger Battles, they really aren't needed.
Of course, I've been accused, more than once - a lot more than once, of having a pretty vivid imagination. So, maybe I am one of the 'odd men out'? :o
:D
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The variants of FFol are hardly in conflict with each other. It’s all basically the same game.
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It’s all basically the same game.
sssshhhhhhh don't tell anyone.
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The variants of FFol are hardly in conflict with each other. It’s all basically the same game.
Given questions of my powers of observation and imagination, I should probably just hush, but I am curious as to where the FFoL VSF vehicle rules ended up. My vague recall of the playtest is of something not found elsewhere in the other rulesets.
Doug
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Wow. Thank you.
I got all my stuff from you a few years past and thought they were no longer available.
Me too, although now I come to think of it, perhaps I had just forgotten this. I must be getting old...
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I too am always amazed how much people want you to give an interpretation of the rules the "Official sanction" and that they are willing to spend good money to do it.
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The “pay for official sanction” thing may be GW’s most influential contribution to wargaming, that expectation even shows up in historical gaming now. A pal who works in a game store and is kind of their historicals specialist told me that recently a young fellow wandered in, took a look around, and asked whether the Warlord boxes were the “official figures for Napoleonic games”.
Regarding the FFoL games, I have quite a few. I don’t buy them to get official sanction for games in different periods. It’s more that I enjoy the layouts and try to support an indie company that makes products that I have fun with. I expect that’s probably a fairly common perspective among FFoL’s repeat buyers!
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Our whole premise is to provide rules for "whatever miniatures you have" to play in "whatever world you want". In a world of "you have to play with our miniatures to play a game with our rules" we are for the players who want to create their own aesthetic.
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Our whole premise is to provide rules for "whatever miniatures you have" to play in "whatever world you want". In a world of "you have to play with our miniatures to play a game with our rules" we are for the players who want to create their own aesthetic.
And a most welcome approach it is. I went out and bought a few of your rules as Pdf just to see how much might be different, and because i too can sometimes be lazy about scenarios. I knew full well that I could always just make up my own traits (I had played Ffol at cons and knew full well how easy it was to do,) but putting a dollar in your hands rather than Osprey/GW/Warlord struck me as money better spent. It certainly is the vehicle of choice for my Gothic Horror figs from Northstar, even though i bought the Silver Bayonet rules—-which i find just kind of meh.
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We love FFOL rules, mainly because they are fun, and that’s what we want from a game.
We’ve bought many versions of the rules.
We enjoy supporting Jaye and his endeavors.
We appreciate Jaye being open and responsive to our questions.
We’ve bought rule sets from other manufacturers in the past, and not had that openness from the rule writers.
We are also LAZY.
I know I can find most things and data from FFOL rule sets, but if I go for a set period, it’s great to have all the rules in one place, i.e one rule set.
So come on Jaye, help an old lazy wargamer out and release your FFOL VSF rules soon lol lol
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Wot Flatpack said. :D
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I'm done with Arena of Blood, so it's back to VSF. It'll be a large book.
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I'm done with Arena of Blood, so it's back to VSF. It'll be a large book.
Sweet music to MY ears.
Doug
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If you need a proof reader/play tester let me know.
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If you need a proof reader/play tester let me know.
Form an queue, FFOL VSF coming thro.
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Wot Flatpack said. :D
Recruiting already started.
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=119096.msg1852280#msg1852280
:D
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Seems to be a solid group of VSF players here.
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Bounty Hunter
We use MWWBK.
With Mods to suit Mars lol lol
We count Martians as Irregulars( Not Tribals !) . they can either be armed with hand weapons , or Muskets v some could have rifled muskets .
We dont play an officer per unit , one officer only.
Works great
Cheers
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