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Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Dubar on October 20, 2023, 12:00:36 AM

Title: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 20, 2023, 12:00:36 AM

On the Aircraft Maneuver Schedule/Aircraft Record Sheet, there's a box in the lower right corner labeled "REDS".

What's it's purpose???

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: bluewillow on October 20, 2023, 11:31:22 PM

Hi Dan,

When you receive a red marker damage to the tail or wing on the combat results table you place it there until the problem phase, then take a spin test.

Auto lose one height level, no firing by pilot or observer plus the result of the table.

Hope that helps

Really must play another game soon I am getting rusty!

Cheers
Matt

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 21, 2023, 02:44:56 AM

Matt...You may have me confused with Dunbar...I left out the N!!!

Quite alright and thanks for the response.  I'll keep it in mind.

The nickname "Dubar" Comes from a time long ago.  Back in the last century, I worked with a bunch of guys and about 6 of us had some uncommon last names.  We all got transferred into the same work group.  There was a guy there that couldn't pronounce any of our last names so he gave each of us a nickname, mine was Dubar!!!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: bluewillow on October 21, 2023, 09:12:00 AM

Sorry, my apologies Dubar,

Same as my nickname Bluewillow, as a red head in Australia you get called blue, as there were several red heads with Williamson and Williams in our town (I have 56 first cousins and most of the men have red hair being of scots ancestry) I ended up with Bluewillow!

Cheers
Matt

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 21, 2023, 02:54:22 PM

No problem Matt.
Wow...56 cousins.  At my age I'm down to maybe 5, everybody else has passed on.  Only 1 redhead in my family that I know of and she never had kids.

I did some work for an Aussie engineer (Robin Wissing, Hydrapower International) when I was a draftsman, he was a great guy and told me a lot about his life in Australia.

I was scrounging thru my stack of rules and came across one that I found on the internet, maybe even on this forum.  It's a very basic set of rules, 1 page.  I tried it out and it worked well but I felt I could improve it a bit and ended up taking pieces of it and bits from Canvas Eagles and making my own set of very simple rules.

Played a few rounds last night, fixing flaws in what I had written, until I came up with a very playable and simple set of rules.  It's 3 pages long but the last page is aircraft data and not really "rules".  I printed it out and made aircraft data sheets for the 18 aircraft I currently have, laminated them (should have waited because I need to add a few things) so I could mark (and erase later) when an aircraft fired and had taken damage.  I need to add AMMO usage, PILOT info, and a photo of the plane on my data sheets.

More play time is necessary, but I have some chores to do today so maybe later.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES??? New Questions Regarding Machine Guns
Post by: Dubar on October 22, 2023, 02:58:17 PM

I have searched the internet to no avail.

Aircraft with 2 forward-firing, fuselage-mounted, machine guns...were the triggers connected somehow so that BOTH MGs fired at more or less the same time?  Were any fired independently of each other?

Also, were any flexible, wing-mounted MGs, on a rail, made to swivel from side to side or did they shoot straight ahead only?  I know some were fixed in place while others could be moved on a rail for reloading and for shooting up instead of just straight.

Looking forward to your replies.  In the meantime I'll go read some books!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: SteveBurt on October 22, 2023, 09:31:55 PM

Pretty sure all the twin MGs fired together. I think the rail on the top wing mounted guns was for reloading (as in the SE5 A). Pretty mad standing up in your open cockpit to reload the gun, and I wonder how often it happened

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on October 22, 2023, 11:56:24 PM

The rail used for the Lewis gun on the SE5 and RNAS Camel kept the gun on the line of the fuselage only, the gun couldn't be swiveled.

The earlier system, used on planes like the Nieuport 11, in which the gun was firmly fixed to the upper wing was indeed quite perilous to reload. There's at least one recorded incident of the aircraft flipping upside down while the pilot was standing in the cockpit reloading, and he was left hanging from the magazine of the gun, to which he clung for dear life until the aeroplane righted itself and he could scramble back into his seat.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 23, 2023, 02:20:45 AM

Thanks guys!

SteveBurt I think you're right on the twin MGs, at least in the movie The Blue Max!  And that's the way I'm going to use them.  I feel the reason for 2 MGs was purely increased of lead down range, makes sense to make them both shoot at the same time.  A pilot had very little time/chance to aim and fire anyway.

Fitz I think you're right too.  Some of the wing guns were solidly attached in place while others were on a rail so the could reload and shoot upward.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: gweirda on October 23, 2023, 10:44:49 AM

Quote

...on the twin MGs...makes sense to make them both shoot at the same time...

Pilots had triggers on the stick that allowed them to fire one or both of the deck-mounted guns (at least on some - saying "all" is perilous!).  That said, it may well be a step too fiddly?  I do have players roll for jamming on each gun, though...

Quote

...in the movie The Blue Max!

That bar-thingy was added so it looked like the actors did something to fire - a closeup of the stick in their crotch was probably deemed too risque!  They also removed the center-section struts for the shots so the actor's face wasn't covered up.  ;)  Still a good flick, though.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 23, 2023, 12:14:41 PM

Yep, too fiddly.  And NEVER go by what Hollywood portrays.  ;D

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 26, 2023, 02:00:28 PM

Last year after playing Canvas Eagles "by the book", I decided to type up the rules from the book, leaving out all the "chat" from the book so I could concentrate on just the rules.  Of course I made a few mods along the way, but for the most part they follow the rules very closely, ended up being 9 pages long.

Along the way I ran across some simple rules I found on the web that someone came up with, probably on this forum.  I did the same thing with these, re-typed them while adding my own twist to them, and came up with a 3 page set of rules that are quick and simple to play.  Not nearly as detailed as Canvas Eagles, but if I want a quick 30 minute or 1 hour game I pull them out and have a go.  Basically these are page (1) Movement, (2) Combat, and (3) Aircraft data. Plus I've made data sheets for each type of aircraft that I currently have (just ordered 10 more different planes from Reduced Aircraft Factory).

I'm still "testing" this 3-page rule set but so far I like what I see.  The past few days I've been working on what to do with planes that had 1 MG vice 2, having 2 has got to be an advantage and the rules should show that.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 27, 2023, 03:26:31 PM

I posted this pertaining to a topic on Hexes on the WW2 forum but thought I'd post it here too.

Here's my 4x6Plus battle mat from Cigar Store showing a Nieuport 28 and Pfalz DIIIa, 1/144 scale from Reduced Aircraft factory.  Periodically I also use a few 1/48 scale models when I want bigger models:

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 27, 2023, 03:28:09 PM

A closer view:

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 29, 2023, 12:38:39 PM

For my stands I bought some 2.75" across the flats acrylic place cards off Amazon, some long bamboo skewers from Walmart, and a pack of alligator clips.  Drill a hole in the bottom of each plane for a pin with a ball head to fit into.  On my 1/48 scale planes I bought some RC car ball head screws (ball joints), drilled holes in the bottom of each plane and screwed them in.  I tried collapsing antennas for stands but them seemed flimsy and would tip over easily, plus found once the battle started I never changed altitude anyway.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: gweirda on October 29, 2023, 06:17:24 PM

Quote

...tried collapsing antennas for stands but they seemed flimsy and would tip over easily...

Yeah, stock antennas have only a centimeter or so of bearing surface between sections (often less) so full extension always creates a serious amount of wobble.  This can be solved by disassembly and adding a second bearing surface.  I put one a third of the way up the section, so that what was once a 6" section was now just 4" - obviously only two-thirds the height but sturdy.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 29, 2023, 07:51:24 PM

That gives me an idea...The bamboo skewers I bought were 30" or so long, I could cut some at different heights to represent altitude.  They pop in/out of the base easily and if they wear out I know I can get more.  I think I cut 6" lengths for the ones I'm using now.  Maybe cut some in 3", 9", and 12" to give me enough to satisfy.  Maybe even find/make a clamp that would go up and down a 12" piece and tighten in place with a set screw.  A piece of nylon tube or pvc pipe if I could find a hole that matches the diameter of the bamboo, I could drill and tap a hole in the sleeve for a set screw then somehow attach the alligator clip to it.  Hmmmmm  ??? 8)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: SteveBurt on October 30, 2023, 11:31:25 AM

I use telescopic magnetic pickup tools as stands, mounted in 18mm MDF hexes. These are very stable. Surprised you find you seldom change altitude; we find climbing or diving essential to get planes off your tail, and some manoeuvres such as Immelman, Split S, Loop or Falling Leaf require you to climb or dive.
(https://imgur.com/a/y5S5R0j)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 30, 2023, 08:32:40 PM

I started playing Canvas Eagles this time last year but got involved with wild west and WW2, haven't touched Canvas Eagles in 8 months or so until recently.  The airplanes draw me back to it, they are simply fascinating.

Last century I had my student pilot's license but getting married got in the way, never picked it back up or got my pilot's license, had 35 hours in a Cessna 150 soloing after 8.6hrs.  Ha...at the time the rates were $10 with instructor and $7 solo and they supplied the gas when flying around the home field!!!  I can't recall any solo, cross-country trips where I had to stop and get gas.

My dad was in the 9th USAAF and I'm sure that was the motivation behind it all.  I'll get around to incorporating more of the rules soon enough.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on October 31, 2023, 09:06:28 PM

Another CE query.

Being I'm gaming solo, I'm at a bit of disadvantage (or advantage depending on how you look at it) being that I see both sides moves.

During play, how often do you see opposing aircraft simply buzzing around without any combat taking place?  I know it's possible if both sides happen to choose maneuvers that never bring them within 3 hexes of one another.  That could go on for days!!!

Is there any home rules that say you MUST maneuver your kite towards an altercation???  I mean...you could go off into oblivion if you're not careful.  :o

(And I still have moments where I move numerous times before the stars get aligned)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: gweirda on November 01, 2023, 10:21:48 AM

Quote

Is there any home rules that say you MUST maneuver your kite towards an altercation???

Not for CE, but I give my pilots a "Pluck" rating (1-5) that indicates how keen they are and roll against it (either as 1d6 or a dice pool) to determine how aggressive they will be in a situation. Using it along with a similar rating for experience (to determine if they see/understand what's going on around them) lets me 'pilot' many models on the table (on both sides) without creating an unrealistic amount of coordination.

Playing the game like this does make you a bit more of a spectator to a certain extent, though.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 01, 2023, 05:53:02 PM

In Canvas Eagles each player chooses which maneuver he will accomplish next.  Seems like a character with experience, veteran, or "ace" rating would have the option of choosing/changing his move AFTER the opposing player(s) have moved.  I doubt the Red Baron would have gone into a climb to the left if he saw his opponent making a dive to the right, if his objective was to go after him with guns blazing.

The homemade rules I'm currently messing with use the "whoever rolls the lowest on a 1D6" moves first.  Still not the best method so maybe I need to heed my own advice and incorporate something for "veteran's preference"!!!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: gweirda on November 01, 2023, 06:12:28 PM

Quote

"whoever rolls the lowest on a 1D6" moves first.

The '1 to 5' rating for experience I use is actually '-2 to +2', which allows for a modifier to the d6 initiative roll (with those pilots with '+' ratings allowed to add or subtract from the roll).  Adding a tailing bonus to the roll (using another, game-variable rating) gives all the advantage I feel necessary to make the story play out in a reasonable fashion -- sometimes the 'Ace' screws up, but that just makes the game more interesting! (ie: unpredictable)  Within the si-move paradigm of CE, I'd guess that using the initiative for when a maneuver is chosen -rather than when it is executed- is the way to go?

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 01, 2023, 10:14:58 PM

Quote from: gweirda on November 01, 2023, 06:12:28 PM

Within the si-move paradigm of CE, I'd guess that using the initiative for when a maneuver is chosen -rather than when it is executed- is the way to go?

That's what I'm thinking.  I just need to work on the mechanics a bit more.

I should be getting 10 more aircraft from Reduced Aircraft Factory in a day or 2.  That'll give me 28 different planes to choose from.  Well 27 cause I have 2 Fokker DVIII already, my favorite plane.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 10, 2023, 12:34:14 PM

Here's a few of the Reduced Aircraft Factory planes in their "Versatile" Plastic material.  Albatros DII, Bristol F2b, Hanriot HD1, Albatros DIII, and Sopwith Triplane:

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 10, 2023, 12:43:22 PM

The graininess is NOT the camera, it's the material used by RAF.  The smoother material they offer is a lot more expensive and not available in all aircraft if I remember correctly.  Some of the planes I have came in with no color, these photos show their color printed line.  After painting and decaling the unpainted models I opted for the color printed versions, I doubt I could have done a better job using the paint/decal method, other than the paint covers the graininess up very well.

The photos on page 1 show aircraft that were painted/decaled and from a distance.  These photos are very close up, they really don't look so rough from a couple of feet away.  I'm thinking a coat of clear spray might cover some of the grain and darken the paint jobs a bit.

While I like Canvas Eagles, at my age I want a simpler game I can play with my 6 and 8 yr old grandsons,  so I developed my own set of rules (now 5 pages long, but there's just 1 page that, once you get some basics down, you need to refer to when playing.  I'm constantly improving them (it was 3 pages) and they seem to be doing what I wanted.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on November 10, 2023, 07:20:30 PM

Back before I had 3d printers of my own, I used to get my models printed by Shapeways, usually in their sintered nylon material, which looks very much like that. I found it acceptable for gaming pieces, even if it's a bit rugged for diorama-quality models.

The colour surface printing is new to me though, and I have to say it looks better than I expected. It would certainly take the heartache out of painting lozenge camo, for a start!

Like all of these technologies, I guess it will become mainstream in time. Probably too late for me though.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 10, 2023, 09:47:05 PM

Quote from: Fitz on November 10, 2023, 07:20:30 PM

Back before I had 3d printers of my own, I used to get my models printed by Shapeways, usually in their sintered nylon material, which looks very much like that. I found it acceptable for gaming pieces, even if it's a bit rugged for diorama-quality models.

The colour surface printing is new to me though, and I have to say it looks better than I expected. It would certainly take the heartache out of painting lozenge camo, for a start!

Like all of these technologies, I guess it will become mainstream in time. Probably too late for me though.

LOL, too late for me as well!  I'm trying to wait for the Star Trek Replicator to become available!

The first batch of planes I received from them had to be painted and decaled, that's when I decided to get the color printed versions next time around.  Well worth the money I think even if they are a tad "rugged".  I did spray 1 coat of clear on them this afternoon but 1 coat didn't do much good trying to smooth out the finish.  I've included another view of the Salmson with the clear coat applied.  Now that I think about it, the added cost of paint and decals most likely surpassed that of the color printed versions.

What type of 3D printer do you have?  I have been thinking about getting one but most things I want I'd probably need to design them myself as I've seen nobody offer them yet.  I also model O-scale trains and the railroad I model after, none of the major manufacturers has scratched the surface on what the RR had.  I've tried my hand at 3D drawing (I was a draftsman back in the 4th quarter of last century) and failed miserably.  Guess if I do get a printer I'll have to buy the files.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on November 10, 2023, 11:30:49 PM

I have two printers, both quite old now: a Creality Ender 3 for FDM, and an Elegoo Mars Pro for resin.

I generally put my modeling stuff up on https://mojobob.blogspot.com/ (https://mojobob.blogspot.com/) if you'd like to see the results from both printers.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 10, 2023, 11:44:18 PM

Thanks Fitz, I'll take a look.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 20, 2023, 02:51:48 PM

Fitz,

I picked up an Elegoo Neptune 4 Pro a couple of days ago, along with a roll of white and a roll of gray PLA filament that should arrive today.  There was a length of white in with the printer and it printed the mini buddha file that came with the package just fine, so I decided to try the rest of the filament out on a 1/144 Halberstadt DII (I think).

Didn't come out so fine, underneath the wings was real "stringy" (?) but the undercarriage and fuselage were good.  I'm hoping it is nothing more than using a "free" file I found on the internet, which didn't have any supports under the wings or anywhere else.  I purchased some files from Wargame3D this morning, hopefully they'll be more "refined" and they include supports.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on November 20, 2023, 09:26:24 PM

What orientation to the print bed are you using? If the undersides of the wings are "stringy" as you say, then it sounds like the model is pretty much flat on to it.

I get best results with one-piece aircraft models by tilting them up steeply on their tails so that all the supports form along the trailing edges. But I also usually add critical supports in Blender and create a new STL from there.

I demonstrate the method here: https://mojobob.blogspot.com/2023/08/printing-petite-planes.html (https://mojobob.blogspot.com/2023/08/printing-petite-planes.html)
It'd a WWII monoplane (Thunderbolt) but the principle is the same for biplanes. The supports are just a little more complex.

Alternately, I sometimes split the model longitudinally using 3d Builder (comes with Win10) and print each half with the split flat on the platen. It takes a bit of care to glue them back together again, but it's doable. That's how I printed the Fiat Falco:
https://mojobob.blogspot.com/2019/01/fiat-cr-42-falco.html (https://mojobob.blogspot.com/2019/01/fiat-cr-42-falco.html)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 20, 2023, 11:17:21 PM

I've got an Albatros printing now, I added supports but I'm not sure of the outcome yet.  May be too much support.  More later!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on November 21, 2023, 01:01:39 PM

After 5 tries I finally got a decent print of an Albatros DIII, still have some cleaning out of the cobwebs to do but it's useable.

Thanks Fitz for the "enlightenment".  I played around with the Cora Slicer program and found that, on this model, a 45 degree nose up angle gave me an acceptable print.  I'm still playing with it though so maybe I can get one to come out perfect.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 05, 2023, 01:24:49 AM

Been printing my brains out trying to learn this 3D printing, they need to offer an apprenticeship!!!  Here's several of the "keepers" I've printed so far, just starting to apply paint.  There's that many again at the bottom of the trashcan!!!  Long view (from the observation aircraft!!!) so I'll try to get some better shots later in the week.  Right now I'm fighting...THE COVID!!!  Had this mess for 10 days now but I think the worst part is done.

Sorry for the sideways photo.

Starting with the top row (with the 2 linen colored aircraft).  I'm thinking they need a coat of PC10 late, but I need more research.  I also have PC12 and Reflective Green just in case:

(2) Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter
(3) Fokker DVIII
(3) Hansa-Brandenburg CI

Bottom row:

(2) RAF RE8, 1 painted in PC10 late
(2) Ansaldo SVA5
(1) Albatros DVa
(2) Halberstadt DII
(1) Fokker DVII

If anyone can turn the photo for proper viewing, please feel free!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 09, 2023, 10:25:51 PM

You guys that use Canvas Eagles rules or variations of them...Do you find it to be more exciting to use only a few airplanes or the more the better?  How about when you solo?

I find solo goes as quick or quicker when I use 4-5 planes on each side.  I don't "pair off" when the shooting starts, meaning if 1 plane initially fires on another that's the only plane he shoots at.  While maneuvering, if another opportunity presents itself, I'll break off contact with 1 and go for the other unless the first plane is still in my sights.  If I can't maneuver to get a shot at #1 and #2 presents itself, then let the lead fly!

I've had times where 2 or even 3 planes end up shooting at the same aircraft, I'm sure it happened in real life.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Basementboy on December 11, 2023, 10:42:40 PM

The prints looks fabulous! I need to get me a 3D printer, they seem extremely useful.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 11, 2023, 11:17:25 PM

Quote from: Basementboy on December 11, 2023, 10:42:40 PM

The prints looks fabulous! I need to get me a 3D printer, they seem extremely useful.

I Have been printing my brains out!!!  Making stuff mainly for the grandkids but I call it "In-house Training".

I was talked out of getting a resin printer, the son of a friend of mine said it's too messy.  Not having seen one at work I can't say, but so are the filament printers.

Also, I don't know for sure, but I believe the resin printers would do a better job on 1/144 scale aircraft, I haven't had nearly the issues printing larger scale pieces, like 28mm and up.  I just printed a French bakery in 28mm and it came out fine, but I did enlarge it so a 25mm based figure could go thru the doorway.  The doorway was 18mm and now it's 25mm.  So far I've printed the 4 flat sides.  Roof is next.

I've been wanting a 3D printer for years, now at 72yrs old (not a typo!) I figured why not, gives me another hobby to do!!!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on December 12, 2023, 01:51:51 AM

Resin printing will certainly  give you smoother surfaces and cleaner details, but PLA+ filament will give you much stronger models (unless you get into the black magic of mixing resin types). Even then, if you get into TPU filament printing, you'll get models that can literally be run over by a car and still spring back into shape.

This Polikarpov id printed in resin:

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiGLINRu6izLreo1MUJ-b6-BoUSIWb_oIepMFdy_pmQ2Qm45_KLUxhtWsEFz-JUcilyPknEQRlaNyeO2AGT3MAIFwfn0liMqdRFblxDYcFCON-3t1gL4lLA2mOCFj0gN-ogdH-Rv4WXZqUsTAmZ9oYCjm0XVPt7t0YdokzWXa2oyx_gIKx-hRN9Q-8C0itz/s600/2023-10-28-Polikarpov_I-153-001.jpg)

This Gladiator is FDM printed in PLA+ filament:

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjSpve_tIsWXvfOvBppKm-llIpGdNS3U3j80__vHatGhHuEzU6sPZgYqe1cKcxk6Upbkxb9GHOBrB0GK421A37DSzDkmFAEuce_Fl8HGz0Y0wzeM4fTVtIQeODOLP6W9dc-LWJetyMxaPonudkn0OT_P8tJOw8wnz6wk5ldep10Zy46qETdxknEkoJU4U6o/s500/2023-10-21-GlosterGladiator-002.jpg)

I chose these two because they're both fabric-winged biplanes, so have similar printing issues. The Polikarpov has no undercarriage though, so is a simpler print in either medium.

In my view, the quality difference between the two printing methods isn't really noticeable at gaming distances. When printing single models, there's not much difference in printing speed between my Mars Pro (resin) and Ender 3 (filament), but more modern FDM printers have really sped up printing lately.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 12, 2023, 02:00:25 AM

Fitz,
I may have to try the PLA+ filament, also think I need to slow down the speed of this Neptune 4 Pro.

The main issues I have on WW1 aircraft are around the struts and landing gear, depending on what angle I start the process the wings can be good or bad.  I'm sure that tweaking the settings will give me what I want, just gonna take time finding what they should be.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 31, 2023, 12:50:14 AM

I may go up to 1/72 scale aircraft.

The 1/144 planes are alright, but there's a lot more to see in twice the size.  I've printed out a half dozen various fighters to see if I'll like the scale or go back to the smaller size.

Also...I've been having trouble with my printer knocking parts off the bed.  Elegoo instructions say to adjust the bed to a thickness of A4 paper.

I "assumed" the regular printer paper I have was A4 but after fighting with the printer I pulled out my caliper and measured the thickness.

Seems like my Walmart brand of printer paper is only .003" (.08mm) thick!  That isn't close to the .20mm thickness between nozzle and bed they recommend.  Fortunately, I have some cardstock laying around and measured that at .008" (.203mm).  I'm giving that a try and see what goes.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on December 31, 2023, 01:33:11 AM

I started getting much better results with my Mars Pro when I leveled the bed with a double thickness of printer paper. I still use a single sheet to level my Ender 3. The paper I use with my laser printer is about 105-110gsm I think.

It would have been a lot more useful if the instructions had given me an absolute measurement rather than the rather vague "thickness of a piece of printer paper". There's a big difference between 90gsm and 105gsm and 120gsm printer paper, and all of those weights are in common use.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 31, 2023, 12:44:44 PM

The instructions that came with the printer aren't instructions at all as far as how to use the Neptune 4 Pro, they're fair as assembly instructions.

All of the large things I've printed out have come out good, but I bought it for 1/144 aircraft and 28mm figures and vehicles and my results have been mixed.  I feel I need to slow the print speed down to 50 or 60mm per second.

I've been cleaning the magnetic bed plate using soap and water but after yesterday's dismal results, now I'm cleaning it with soap and water followed by isopropyl alcohol.

Yesterday I attempted to print a Fokker DVII 3 or 4 times and the piece kept moving on the plate within an hour or so.  Not sure if it's that the plate isn't getting clean or my glue stick is trash.  I'll find out today!!!

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on December 31, 2023, 02:18:51 PM

Well that didn't work, now I'm thinking the glue sticks I have are the culprit.

The sticks I have are PVP type glue, but I've read that PVA type is preferred.  I just ordered a 3-pack of Elmer's purple glue sticks off Amazon.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 04, 2024, 01:29:55 PM

I think I got it!!!

I changed to an Elmer's Purple glue stick plus I modified a couple of parameters when slicing the object.  I switched from a Brim build plate to a Raft build plate, because I was having issues with the print staying put on the bed plate.

I also changed the angle of the build with the tail up from a 30 degree to a 45 degree angle.

Also started using a feeler gauge instead of a sheet of paper to level the bed.

I'm still not 100% satisfied but I'm getting very close.  Here's a SPAD XIII I printed in 1/72 scale.  There's still some nastiness on the nose and wheels of the aircraft (I'm wondering if lifting the piece off the bed by 1mm would help) but overall it came out good.  I might try another SPAD printed with the tail down/nose up and see what I get:

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Michi on January 04, 2024, 02:04:21 PM

Quote from: Dubar on November 21, 2023, 01:01:39 PM

After 5 tries I finally got a decent print of an Albatros DIII, still have some cleaning out of the cobwebs to do but it's useable.

Mine was resin printed in 1/144th scale by a friend and turned out nicely. I simply love that plane!

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXiqn8dt8stoCFULH6daeAf42kQ8N9NTmzlhpaLlH8k55i5_0worP0rC8JMqfDrkcTP8zSBEf6IoWg9PIYrONzpTAKhAwnMpeXZ0dkx8IUcX_x9FHe-2OC0HO0uv_2OL47WhpMX4TKSFsrRADgzfDhMwYXsfKsswbgP_b7XmNkyAmcQ_SsdEHDBieXDQ/s956/IMG_2610.JPG)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 04, 2024, 06:45:36 PM

Nice!!!  If I was to do it over again I might have gone resin vice filament.

I'm also thinking about going the plastic disk rout for propellers vice 3D printing them.  I was printing them as part of the plane but the last few I printed them separately.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 22, 2024, 03:36:36 PM

Got a maneuver question...Using Maneuver 1S0, you have to roll 2D6 to test for spinning.  But using maneuver 27S2 you don't test for spin but you do use 2 fuel points.  In both moves the aircraft stays in the same hex.

Am I reading those right, why doesn't 27S2 have to test for spin?  Having flown planes when I was a young man, I know you can descend with barely any forward movement, never tried to reverse direction while doing it though.  Just trying to picture in my mind what move 27S2 would look like.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 23, 2024, 08:44:36 PM

Here's a 1/72 Camel I 3D printed not long ago, all painted up with some homemade decals I applied.  The struts are a little thick (scaled up from a 1/144 STL file) but that means less chance of breaking.  No where near the quality of an injection-molded piece, but it makes a good "game-piece" for my needs.  The decals were a pain, so I made them as simple as I could.  Actually once I got the sizes I wanted printing them out and fixing them to the aircraft wasn't so bad.  Even the lozenge decals came out good, way better than I thought, putting them on an 100% built plane wasn't as much fun.  o_o

The stand is a made of a 3" (across the corners) acrylic hex, from a pack I bought off Amazon and drilled a hole in the center to hold some cutdown bamboo skewers I think I got from Walmart, tipped with an alligator clip.  The aircraft was drilled and tapped to accept a 3mm ball hex screw (RC car parts from Amazon).

On the acrylic base are bits I use in my homemade rule set.  The hex photo of the model with name is held in place by a 3D printed card holder I found on Thingiverse and resized it to meet my needs.  The card with the "6" on it indicates airspeed for that turn, also mounted on a smaller 3D printed card holder.  Both card holders, as of now, are held down by double-faced tape.  If I like the way it works I may super glue them in place.

Photo 3 is of the aircraft data sheet I made specifically for my homemade rules.

I'm going to see if these taped-on holders can be used for Canvas Eagles as well.

So far I have 16 3D printed 1/72 aircraft, 8 Entente and 8 German.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 24, 2024, 11:02:50 AM

LOL...I played a 1 on 1 game last night between the Camel and a Fokker DVII and recalled the reason why I made that small hex marker in the first place.  It's meant to be used as a marker to show where the aircraft started the turn, left in the hex until the move is finalized.  With multiple aircraft on the table I find it hard to remember where they started their moves from as I plot my moves.

I ended up removing the large holder and relocating the small holder to that spot.  The small hex marker will be positioned on the table behind the aircraft.  My initial goal was to be able to attach the speed marker to the base so it wouldn't slide off, but could be changed if the speed changed.

I also printed a turn counter I found on Thingiverse so I could keep a record of how many turns a game takes.  This game lasted 13 turns with the Camel taking a number of hits and leaving before any damage was done to the DVII.  Seems like no matter what rules are used it always comes down to the roll of the dice.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: bluewillow on January 25, 2024, 04:18:54 AM

Nice, must print some myself

Cheers
Matt

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 25, 2024, 01:17:25 PM

Here's a link to a place card holder that I liked even better but the groove is wider than the cards I printed and they fall out easy.  It reminds me of a concrete barricade you would see on the highway.  In your slicer program simply adjust the dimensions to the size you want.  My printer came with the Cura 4.80 slicer:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2539320 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2539320)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: SteveBurt on January 25, 2024, 03:05:44 PM

How are you handling altitude in your rules? It’s kind of vital in air combat

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on January 25, 2024, 08:10:40 PM

I'm not in my homemade rules.  I play solo and have found that I rarely changed altitude once the shooting started, even when playing Canvas Eagles I was that way, but it's necessary in CV when a hit causes you to lose altitude.  I also don't use fuel usage, I don't think CV allows enough fuel points to complete a decent scenario.  A few times I played I was running out of gas before shooting ever took place, trying to get into a good position to open fire.

My homemade rules were made to be simple, anyone wanting a copy just shoot me an email, they're 5 pages long including 1 page of aircraft statistics and 1 page on observation/bombing rules.  There's also a few pages aircraft data sheets, aircraft markers, and maneuvers that I made for the aircraft I have.

The rules are done in Libre Office, a MS Office lookalike.  They can be opened in MS Office.  I know I have gone back and forth between Word and Libre Office's Writer Document quite a bit.

I may eventually add altitude rules but not today!   :)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on February 18, 2024, 01:46:26 PM

The card holders I printed kept popping off the stands, wasn't the card holders fault as much as it was the double-sided tape I used to keep them in place.

As luck would have it I ran across a drawer full of small clamps (not sure what the actual name of them is) and they work perfectly.

Here's a battle between a SE5a and a Pfalz DXII showing the clamps.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on February 25, 2024, 10:39:25 PM

I'm thinking we could use a 3D Printing sub-forum!!!

I haven't been completely satisfied with my PLA prints off my Elegoo Neptune 4 Pro, so today I decided to do some testing.

I've printed half dozen 1/72 aircraft with the nose pointing straight up and they came out pretty good, only things that was sketchy was the bottom layer on just about all surfaces (rear of wing, struts, wheels).  They could be sanded but that was something I was hoping to avoid spending a lot of time doing.  I'd say about 90% satisfied with the results.

Today I printed a Fokker DVII at a 75 degree angle instead of 90 degrees, plus I reduced the layer height from .2mm to .1mm.  I also printed a Fokker DVI but at .2mm layer height (no photos of that yet).

The result was about 95% of perfect (for me).  There's still some sanding to do but not nearly as much, plus cleaning some cobwebs off the model.  The hardest part is getting the cocoon from around the model without busting a strut!!!  What a waste of material!

Here's some photos (hope they're not turned 90 degrees):

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on February 26, 2024, 01:03:21 PM

Here's some better photos of the DVII and the DVI taken with a Nikon instead of my cellphone:

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on February 26, 2024, 07:33:09 PM

They look pretty good. Get some paint on them, and at tabletop distances all the layer lines will disappear.

I print all my FDM vehicles and minis at 0.1mm. I'm being tempted at the moment by the Bambu Labs A1 Mini; the output from that little printer is absolutely superb, and much much faster than my old Ender 3.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on February 26, 2024, 10:23:51 PM

Thanks Fitz!  The .1mm layer takes longer but I do notice a smoother bottom layer finish.

I've printed 30 aircraft so far and painted/decaled all but 6, 4 of which have been painted but not decaled.  Like you said in another post...they make fantastic "Gaming Pieces".  They're all sturdy, but I take care when handling the Airco DH2!  They should have covered that gaping hole between fuselage and tail with some canvas (had it not been for the pusher motor in the rear!).

I wish I had done some homework beforehand, I would have tried to get the paint jobs closer to some actual aircraft.  I recently purchased Jasta Colors vol 1 and 2 by Bruno Schmäling and Jörn Leckscheid and am about half way thru vol 1.  Very interesting reading about the different Jastas and their pilots and planes.  If the mood hits I can always print another one out and give it a go.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Fitz on February 26, 2024, 11:36:22 PM

That's the great thing about 3d printing game pieces: you'll never run out :)

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on February 29, 2024, 02:45:37 PM

I printed an Airco DH9 yesterday, I tried numerous times the day before but kept getting a mess on the printer.

So I re-leveled the bed, going over it several times until I was satisfied but also changed the layer height from .1mm to .15mm, that seemed to fix the problem.

Of course another problem crept in...I ran out of filament!!!  I quickly(?) put on a piece of another spool I had and finished the print, but when I tried to remove the supports the plane came apart at the seam where one color stopped and the other began.  I think the total time to print was 8 hours, I set the print speed down to 50mm/sec.

No problem though, a bit of super glue and the halves were joined together once again.  Now I have yet another plane to paint and decal.

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on March 02, 2024, 10:14:00 PM

1/72 3D printed DH9 all painted up with minimum decals.  I can't seem to get the flat look I want, even after spraying a coat of flat clear on the model(s).

Title: Re: CANVAS EAGLES???
Post by: Dubar on March 06, 2024, 01:00:28 PM

Just finished a Fokker DVII, flown by Lt. Lothar Leberecht of Jagdstaffel 7.

Still have 2 Fokker DVIIIs and a Fokker DVI to apply lozenge and cross markings to, really a PITA to apply the lozenge decals on an already assembled model.