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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Basementboy on 29 December 2023, 10:59:25 AM

Title: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: Basementboy on 29 December 2023, 10:59:25 AM
Was browsing Warlord Games successor selection, and noticed that their elephants are depicted in full scale mail barding, with bronze “helmets” and overlapping plates covering the legs.
The models look fantastic- but is there any evidence that successor elephants were ever armed like this? It seems like all the heavy armour would be impractical in the conditions of the Middle East, but maybe I’m wrong lol
Thanks in advance ;)
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: SteveBurt on 29 December 2023, 11:37:41 AM
There is good evidence for it. Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars (Duncan Head), and The Seleucid Army (Nick Sekunda) have sources and pictures. Elephant armour is attested in contemporary sculptures and wall paintings.
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: AdamPHayes on 29 December 2023, 11:38:39 AM
There is one period representation that I know of showing scale armour:

(https://wildfiregames.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_09/Roman_bronze_elephant_Staatliche_Antikensammlungen_SL_50_1.thumb.jpg.fbb4e7b3dc4e7e975471b7f44e7c1665.jpg)

And several literary descriptions of armour albeit not very specific of the form it took. There are more statuettes IIRC showing the banded leg armour that were presumably protecting where the elephant was most vulnerable to attack.

These plus many illustrations from other periods of heavily armoured elephants (all the way up to the 18th C. in India) mean it does not look impractical to me. Perhaps less of an issue than for horses that suffer severe overheating problems in hot climates when weighed down with a heavy caparison.

It also makes a lot of sense from a point of view that the elephant was seen as a prestige symbol and directly linked with kingship in the Hellenistic world. Providing expensive armour to your battlefield command post and bling for the post-match victory parade seems quite logical.
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: Basementboy on 29 December 2023, 11:51:02 AM
Thank you both so much for the quick responses! Very useful to know :D
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: has.been on 30 December 2023, 04:29:04 PM
The Tower of London has an Elephant suit of armour.
Never seen it myself, as when our club visited (to please a
member who used a LOT of pachyderms in his wargames armies)
it had been removed for 'restoration'.
 :( >:( :? :-I
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: AdamPHayes on 30 December 2023, 05:07:16 PM
Quote from: has.been on 30 December 2023, 04:29:04 PM
The Tower of London has an Elephant suit of armour.
Never seen it myself, as when our club visited (to please a
member who used a LOT of pachyderms in his wargames armies)
it had been removed for 'restoration'.
 :( >:( :? :-I

😂

It’s up in Leeds now. Supposedly taken at Plassey…
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: Harry Faversham on 31 December 2023, 07:57:46 AM
Impressive looking beastie!

 :o
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: has.been on 31 December 2023, 12:29:30 PM
Oh, ta for the move update guys.
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: carlos marighela on 31 December 2023, 03:38:09 PM
Always said that puffer jackets made folk look like pachyderms.
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: AdamPHayes on 31 December 2023, 10:10:06 PM
Quote from: carlos marighela on 31 December 2023, 03:38:09 PM
Always said that puffer jackets made folk look like pachyderms.

Are you saying my elephant looks fat in this dress?
Title: Re: How accurate are cataphract elephants, really?
Post by: carlos marighela on 31 December 2023, 11:51:21 PM
In my experience the spousal version of that question is the singular instance where the counter question 'Would you like a piece of chocolate?' is likely to fail.......... spectacularly. ;)