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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: OB on January 08, 2024, 04:40:41 PM

Title: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: OB on January 08, 2024, 04:40:41 PM

I have begun to think about my stalled India 1857 project again.  It was triggered by seeing the print below.  There are some interesting details in it.

The Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion or whatever you favour calling it is a complex period to game.  Reliable information is hard to pin down.

Anyhow, there are some thoughts on the subject on my blog if it is of interest.

There are also some pics of toys and of my Indian city.

http://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com


Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: FifteensAway on January 08, 2024, 11:22:28 PM
Keep at it.  Indian Mutiny is among the more colorful conflicts regularly put onto the gaming table, especially during the 19th century colonial wars. 

I have a crazy amount of figures for it but am trying to settle on a 'basic' force for both sides and just get that painted so I can run games - and then decide whether or not to expand and, if so, just how far.  Like you, I have it in 15 mm - a lot of Dixon and more from the much newer Bluemoon range.  (Not fond of how Bluemoon did their cavalry so we'll see if I rely on my Dixon cavalry.)

Your city looks good - maybe a bit too white for my tastes, I'd go with a more red/brown but white works, too.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: Mudyinsquall on January 09, 2024, 09:48:14 AM
The Mutiny's always great to dip back into, so much variety in units!

That is also one of my favorite artworks of the period.

Cheers

Andy
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: ChrisBBB on January 09, 2024, 11:22:39 AM
The Mutiny did give us an entertaining Xmas game:
https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2023/12/spectacular-indian-mutiny-xmas-special.html
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: huevans on January 10, 2024, 01:25:21 AM
Might get a bit one-sided. Brits get the Enfield. Sepoys get an old percussion musket.

Mutineers are unpredictable and disorganized. I would give them dramatic morale rolls - i.e. they can be heroes or cowards depending on the roll of the dice. Or perhaps depending on whether they get a "charismatic leader" or not.

Mutineers have no cohesion above a regimental / battalion level. The battalion on the left might do something totally different from the battalion on the right.

Possibly stack the numbers heavily in favour of the mutineers. And that way, if they get good morale rolls they can give the British a surprise and a scare.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: OB on January 10, 2024, 11:02:42 AM
Keep at it.  Indian Mutiny is among the more colorful conflicts regularly put onto the gaming table, especially during the 19th century colonial wars. 

I have a crazy amount of figures for it but am trying to settle on a 'basic' force for both sides and just get that painted so I can run games - and then decide whether or not to expand and, if so, just how far.  Like you, I have it in 15 mm - a lot of Dixon and more from the much newer Bluemoon range.  (Not fond of how Bluemoon did their cavalry so we'll see if I rely on my Dixon cavalry.)

Your city looks good - maybe a bit too white for my tastes, I'd go with a more red/brown but white works, too.

I will.

How do your Blue Moon size with Dixon?  I had thought of buying a few.

Yes, I took the timid option on the city.  Nearly went for red/brown but chose a generic white instead.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: OB on January 10, 2024, 11:04:46 AM
The Mutiny's always great to dip back into, so much variety in units!

That is also one of my favorite artworks of the period.

Cheers

Andy

Yes, it is a painters dream allsorts involved at one time or another.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: OB on January 10, 2024, 11:05:32 AM
The Mutiny did give us an entertaining Xmas game:
https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2023/12/spectacular-indian-mutiny-xmas-special.html

That's the sort of thing I'm aiming for Chris.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: OB on January 10, 2024, 11:11:37 AM
Might get a bit one-sided. Brits get the Enfield. Sepoys get an old percussion musket.

Mutineers are unpredictable and disorganized. I would give them dramatic morale rolls - i.e. they can be heroes or cowards depending on the roll of the dice. Or perhaps depending on whether they get a "charismatic leader" or not.

Mutineers have no cohesion above a regimental / battalion level. The battalion on the left might do something totally different from the battalion on the right.

Possibly stack the numbers heavily in favour of the mutineers. And that way, if they get good morale rolls they can give the British a surprise and a scare.

Yeah, Russell reckoned the Enfield was the decider. 

Mostly what you note seems to be pretty much how it was.  Not always though.  Tantia Tobe handily defeated General Rose in open battle one time.  I'm trying to track down what exactly happened.  No luck so far.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: dadlamassu on January 10, 2024, 12:06:52 PM
Many years ago I had an Indian Mutiny project and did quite a bit of research:

See it here:  http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Indian%20Mutiny/Indian_mutiny_index.htm (http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Indian%20Mutiny/Indian_mutiny_index.htm)
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: huevans on January 13, 2024, 04:20:58 AM
Yeah, Russell reckoned the Enfield was the decider.

Mostly what you note seems to be pretty much how it was.  Not always though.  Tantia Tobe handily defeated General Rose in open battle one time.  I'm trying to track down what exactly happened.  No luck so far.
That’s interesting. Please post if you find anything useful.

The Paper Cartridges crew on YouTube do a lot of great stuff on the 1850 - 1865 period, including comparing infantry weapons.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: WillieB on January 13, 2024, 03:57:57 PM
Indian Mutiny was until recently the only Colonial era I played ( in the meantime I've fallen for those magnificent Cape War figures as well "thanks" to Paul Hicks; Mike Snook and my bestie Axel)
There's nothing more colourful than the Mutiny.

Hoping we"ll soon see the release of a few more "key" units like Gurkhas and 60th Rifles that are sadly still missing (in 28mm)

Anyway it is by far the most balanced colonial war you could ever hope for.
Yes, the Enfield  was a game changer but not as much as you might think. Several of the battles were fought at short range where the superior accuracy of the Enfield mattered less. In fact during the early months of the Mutiny most British troops still had P1842 muskets, except for units like the 60th Rifles and Madras Fusiliers and some skirmishers in other foot regiments.

The British  at first definitely lacked cavalry to exploit any breakthroughs and make  a pursuit of a retreating enemy. As a result they often had to fight the same enemy forces several times.
The Indian artillery was often better handled - and definitely more plentiful- than the British.

IMHO the real decider was the lack of decent - higher- command on the Indian side.

Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: huevans on January 13, 2024, 04:59:07 PM
I should post a link to Iron Duke's information pages. Still the best I've seen on the conflict.

https://www.irondukeminiatures.co.uk/1857-uniforms-and-orgs-etc-2

https://www.irondukeminiatures.co.uk/archived-notes-1857


Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: sepoy1857 on January 14, 2024, 01:48:13 AM
Many years ago I had an Indian Mutiny project and did quite a bit of research:

See it here:  http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Indian%20Mutiny/Indian_mutiny_index.htm (http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Indian%20Mutiny/Indian_mutiny_index.htm)
Oh yes!  An excellent resource. I have had it bookmarked for a long time. Thank You Sir!
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: Sparrow on January 14, 2024, 07:32:56 AM
Nice site, OB, thanks for sharing !
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: OB on January 14, 2024, 05:21:50 PM
Thanks everyone for the interesting links.  Some good reading there.

Some good points too.

On the superiority of Indian artillery- it was the same in the Anglo-Sikh Wars.  I have read testimony from British officers who served in both conflicts.  They say that the regular Indian gunners could get 3 shots off in the same time it took British gunners to fire 2.  The Indian fire was more accurate too.

No question that the lack of a chain of command greatly reduced the effectiveness of the Sepoy Armies in the field.  When this was even partially rectified they did better.  The problem was what constituted legitimate authority? Traditional Indian leaders could and did fill the gap.  Outside of that it was much more difficult.

British troops who lacked the Enfield clamoured for it.  I think the rank and file quickly appreciated its transformative effect.   I am currently of the view that the Enfield with its greater range checked the Sepoy cavalry advantage.

Glad you enjoyed the blog Sparrow.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: huevans on September 22, 2024, 11:00:57 PM
Does anyone know a source for Indian scenery and buildings?

I mean those impossibly ornate palaces and fortresses with crenelations and ornaments. I would love to go all in with classic Indian scenery for an IM campaign.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: FifteensAway on September 23, 2024, 05:28:23 AM
Many years ago there were a few things from Ian Weekly models, all I can recall.  These days, I'd try searching 3D prints to see what you can find.  And let us know what you do find, please.

Edit: Just took my own advice and found this: https://battlehonours3d.com/collections/middle-east-indian-mutiny?page=1 (https://battlehonours3d.com/collections/middle-east-indian-mutiny?page=1)

Pay Extreme Attention to what scale you order if you choose to do so, and try clicking on the bottom edge of the scale (size) button - on my computer it kept defaulting to the wrong place to adjust.  Also, pay attention to the actual contents, some of the photos show things NOT included. 
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: huevans on September 24, 2024, 12:47:11 AM
More Middle Eastern than Indian. Better than nothing, I guess.
Title: Re: Indian Mutiny/ Indian Rebellion Thoughts
Post by: FifteensAway on September 24, 2024, 04:10:40 AM
Recommend you do more searching, it didn't take long to find this link: https://www.etsy.com/shop/HartoliaMiniatures?ref=shop-header-name&listing_id=1395140180&from_page=listing&search_query=indian+temple (https://www.etsy.com/shop/HartoliaMiniatures?ref=shop-header-name&listing_id=1395140180&from_page=listing&search_query=indian+temple)

You would need to either own a 3D printer or have someone willing to print.  You have not mentioned what size you are looking for - from 6 mm - 54 mm???  I would expect to pay a pretty penny - and then some - to have someone print these, probably very time consuming.

I've found items in pet store aquarium decor.  My collection is in 15 mm.