Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Sir Barnaby Hammond-Rye on 06 February 2024, 12:35:15 AM
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Does any company make 28mm Roman Cavalry wearing the silver face mask?
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The Victrix Late Roman's kit has two heads like that:
https://www.victrixlimited.com/en-us/products/late-roman-armoured-cavalry?variant=40357993218147#6916806869091-5
Their cataracts kit had 1 head like that too.
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Aventine and Gripping Beast for sure, I did min with them: http://pippoweb.blogspot.com/search/label/Magister%20militum
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/ABC02_Romano_British_Knights_one_3--product--5122.html
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/LRC01_Late_Roman_Cavalry_Command_One_3--product--5060.html
https://www.aventineminiatures.org/store/EIR88a-command-on-cataphract-horses-p184720160
https://www.aventineminiatures.org/store/EIR88-Mounted-command-3-p184712681
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There are these too:
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/late-roman-romano-british-early-byzantine/products/late-roman-cataphracts-command
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But Early Imperial Roman Equites had masks as well...right?
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Not that I am in any way suggesting to you how you should model your own toy soldiers but masks were almost certainly for parade purposes only IMHO.
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For a long time, these helmets were designated as "parade helmets" by historians and archaeologists, and it was assumed that they would not be used in battle. They seemed impractical.
Then one was found the battlefield at the Teutoburger Wald among the debris. There is a tombstone in Germany that some say depicts an infantry signifer (standard bearer) wearing such a helmet or it may be a poor carving. Of course it may represent him in his "best" uniform on parade and not in battle.
A number of these "parade" helmets have been found. It does seem quite possible that these masked helmets could sometimes be worn in battle. It makes sense for standard bearers and such to do so as they have an important morale role on the battlefield as well as being less able to defend themselves so any extra protection and the masks would fit in with the animal hides and polished scale armour such men also wore.
In battle intimidation was important and what better way to this than to have a line of richly decorated shields, polished and ornamented armour, helmet plumes, crests and maybe inhuman silver face masks. Face masks are impressive but probably not practical for entire units to wear them. The added protection had to be balanced with the lack of comfort, reduced vision, hearing and breathing.
All this is a long way of saying we're still not sure. So I would suggest that a few of the better paid soldiers in your units might wear them - cavalry: officers, decurio, signifer, duplicarius, and legionary Tribunes (maybe as facial recognition might be more important), signifer, decanus, optio. The Equites Legiones may have had more of them as they were better paid.
The fact that we find them may, of course, mean that they were not worn in battle but left in the barracks or with the baggage. Who knows?
Source: Adrian Goldsworthy, The Complete Roman Army. I would recommend this book.
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I’ll have to check it out! Sounds fascinating.
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For a long time, these helmets were designated as "parade helmets" by historians and archaeologists, and it was assumed that they would not be used in battle. They seemed impractical.
I've tried a facsimile on, they do seem and feel very impractical. It was difficult to walk in as one's field of vision was dramatically reduced.
Then one was found the battlefield at the Teutoburger Wald among the debris. There is a tombstone in Germany that some say depicts an infantry signifer (standard bearer) wearing such a helmet or it may be a poor carving. Of course it may represent him in his "best" uniform on parade and not in battle.
It would not be unheard of for an army to carry parade gear around with it and yet for that equipment to not be in use. The Stradiotoi at Fornovo managed to get their hands on VIII's porn collection but I doubt he was using it militarily in the battle!
In battle intimidation was important and what better way to this than to have a line of richly decorated shields, polished and ornamented armour, helmet plumes, crests and maybe inhuman silver face masks. Face masks are impressive but probably not practical for entire units to wear them. The added protection had to be balanced with the lack of comfort, reduced vision, hearing and breathing.
See my comment re: facsimile above.
All this is a long way of saying we're still not sure. So I would suggest that a few of the better paid soldiers in your units might wear them - cavalry: officers, decurio, signifer, duplicarius, and legionary Tribunes (maybe as facial recognition might be more important), signifer, decanus, optio. The Equites Legiones may have had more of them as they were better paid.[/quote[
The fact that we find them may, of course, mean that they were not worn in battle but left in the barracks or with the baggage. Who knows?
I concur.
Source: Adrian Goldsworthy, The Complete Roman Army. I would recommend this book.
Dammit! I was going to quote the same source lol A very good choice it has to be said.
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Medieval pot helms seem impractical and vision limiting and yet nobody seems to argue that Crusaders didn't wear them.
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If you're looking for early Imperial Romans, Victrix's EIR Cavalry has helmets with masks as an option. Also, the Victrix EIR legionaries set comes with separate metal masks.
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Medieval pot helms seem impractical and vision limiting and yet nobody seems to argue that Crusaders didn't wear them.
Nor are T40's! You can't just jump up ands down throughout the centuries and pick and choose to make a tenuous argument.
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Isn't the argument against the masks simply that they would not be able to see out of them/fight in them. Apparently Crusaders fought in helmets with narrow vision slits so apparently narrow vision slits are not the issue they are made out to be.
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Isn't the argument against the masks simply that they would not be able to see out of them/fight in them. Apparently Crusaders fought in helmets with narrow vision slits so apparently narrow vision slits are not the issue they are made out to be.
No, the argument is not about vision (though it is relevant) it is the lack of a primary source. We have reasonably good primary sources depicting knights (not common soldiers) wearing pot helms some 800 or more years later.
The original classification of such helmets was based on Arrianu Techne Taktike (Arriani Ars tactica) by Arrian of Nicomedia, a Roman provincial governor and a close friend of Hadrian, face mask helmets were used in cavalry parades and sporting mock battles called “hippika gymnasia“ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippika_gymnasia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippika_gymnasia)
Interesting discussionhere: https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/showthread.php?tid=23877 (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/showthread.php?tid=23877)
Arrian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrian)
I have not found a primary source for such "Parade" or "Sport" helmets in action though I have seen the Flavinus grave stele at Hexam which may or may not depict him in battle gear - but then I've already said as signifer he could well have worn a masked helmet.
(https://havg.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Flavinus-2.jpeg)
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Warlord makes this one figure as far as I'm aware.
(https://eu.warlordgames.com/cdn/shop/products/wgh-ir-65-aux-cav-cmd-1.jpg?v=1627058371)
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A possible option are the warlord miniatures plastic heads
I only use them on standard bearers in my army
Cheers
Matt