Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: TWD on 25 March 2024, 08:44:49 PM
-
Martin came over and we decided it was high time we played a game of Midgard together without having to rely on James explaining the rules to us!
I took my Saxons and Martin bought his Romano British
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhkOtpJH0rwBn-lj6xdLF875xZAHPvho42jE64KF0WfjjPeaTWhfZ3g5BSni9OEnKkkOfelUL0EUt74vgYyO0XaZpTUCSucwXwKl9rniUYviYQ1dj2TNUmp435b_Mj4kaDNeNIDWxXtP7FuvJSRoVyW1hJumt2zpM7ZjsKvXLEaXgxB1cURBi0xts4ZRlrX/s800/P1160028_edited.jpeg)
Arthur was soon leading his men in a devastating charge on my right flank.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhWR4keKlpyL34hs2VWjIQXRq12VNk9YM7iJDCcwX0A5qxBf7LC7TP2NJBxey1qCWH9Sq6fS-X6QwCT2If7FqxRhDXIFupvgD_sIzRM2vINb6EmFRfKHTDXPerAl4DZ9GW-AovV76HpDWVoQkkZCRHkLqmcU6hEoVYpVe1_VsBBM7YwXTaTLEnD8Ka38I9L/s800/P1160035_edited.jpeg)
Bloodthirtsy Saxon youths soon learned the folly of charging a shieldwall
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUdhbvXTR9J_WE0e4sYDNIazEAwUjaOv7PTV_f2STcFlibtoHWETchtnsSCBdo11_JPRlLhg6acHA0J4TwGV8VUSB0N0m7eVRlM9bFMvistsjeqGE-SAp8NRDqErWTKCAqrEvyOk43wZ4pFuwS1ojQnCNlPewSmOd5yhUlOx2zOQytSdwT4oR4ve6vWYi8/s800/P1160045_edited.jpeg)
Before too long the BRitish defenders were drowning the soil in Saxon bllod
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh-wqC1cj33YeyRsAlK-qUFjxRb6lerBS4RNRaCBcC1-2f3xGWVbrSC2DYKPReNaOsevBCcYqLZXmhCd7-DJXQLIx6-SUyL1BHBoI1aMRWNiCA_HsuN7cvEE9-8Io0f9zM94vFaXMb7Defc_IsuuLp3e-RKT65aZ0L_yYhbSOg4HO3yGRw-42comNN2ro9M/s800/P1160052_edited.jpeg)
More here:
https://tomstoysoldiers.blogspot.com/2024/03/midhgard-march-8.html
-
Looks like great fun! Mind if I ask where the banners are from, they look incredible :-*
-
That does look like a fun game! I’m very excited about the release of the Midgard rules (hopefully soon).
-
:-* :-* :-*
-
Morning Everyone. I was at "Herts of Lard" this weekend and spoke to Rich Clarke from Two Fat Lardies. From what he said his next release will be the Chain of Command "Far East Handbook" hopefully end of April with Midgard next in line after that .
-
That's proper, that is. Lovely armies as well, gents.
-
Was there a song that said "waiting is the hardest part"? I'm rather interested in picking up Midgard when it comes out. Hoping it can be a solid mid-sized system for Ancients and/or mythological forces. I really want to see my Viking/Saxon armies with Giants.
-
Morning Everyone. I was at "Herts of Lard" this weekend and spoke to Rich Clarke from Two Fat Lardies. From what he said his next release will be the Chain of Command "Far East Handbook" hopefully end of April with Midgard next in line after that .
I'm sure there are literally dozens of people eagerly awaiting the Chain of Command Far East Handbook...
-
Do I detect a degree of sarcasm in the comment? I have been amazed over the past few years how WW2 topics deemed "pretty niche" have become very popular, it isn't just 8th Army, Normandy and the Eastern Front. I'm sure this handbook ( or books?) will be very popular amongst the Chain of Command devotees as it will be something a little bit different. Part of the issue with 2FL's is that Rich Clarke sets very exacting standards, and of course he isn't the author of Midgard. I recall playing a new game ( still unreleased) at a Lardie event back in mid 2022 where the game designer/author thought it pretty much finished. Rich Clarke's comment later in the afternoon when I asked him about a release date was "if he thinks that is finished well it bl**dy well isn't". They are still good friends!
-
Looks like great fun! Mind if I ask where the banners are from, they look incredible :-*
The British are Martin's work - I think freehand.
For the Saxons the big black dragon one is an LBMs commercial one. The others I made using some images I found on the 'internet. Initially I was concerned about copyright infringement, but then I read the site they were on a bit more and it was all right wing "Sons of Odin, pure race of the North" nonsense and, well, F*ck those Nazis. :D
-
Was there a song that said "waiting is the hardest part"? I'm rather interested in picking up Midgard when it comes out. Hoping it can be a solid mid-sized system for Ancients and/or mythological forces. I really want to see my Viking/Saxon armies with Giants.
We've played games from Bronze Age Greeks to Wars of the Roses both with and without fantasy elements (not too many of those in the WotR games TBF) and it works well so I think it'll be what you're looking for.
Martin took a wizard for this game, but I'm not sure he had a great impact on things.
-
That does look like a fun game! I’m very excited about the release of the Midgard rules (hopefully soon).
It was indeed a lot of fun.
The rules are currently with the designer I believe having nice graphics and images and diagrams added. So it's on "the home straight" for release I'd say.
After the Far East book for definite, but not sure how long after.
-
I'm pretty keen to try the Midgard ruleset. Is Midgard in any way a spiritual successor to the Age of Arthur supplement for WAB that James Morris also wrote? In WAB AoA the generals/heroes could have specific heroic traits that could be bought using points. This helped make each army different. It really added character.
My fear regarding Midgard is that it may well have a superior battle dynamic than WAB but it also might be rather generic. That's always the risk with any system that attempts to cover too many bases or tries to be too simple.
-
I'm pretty keen to try the Midgard ruleset. Is Midgard in any way a spiritual successor to the Age of Arthur supplement for WAB that James Morris also wrote? In WAB AoA the generals/heroes could have specific heroic traits that could be bought using points. This helped make each army different. It really added character.
My fear regarding Midgard is that it may well have a superior battle dynamic than WAB but it also might be rather generic. That's always the risk with any system that attempts to cover too many bases or tries to be too simple.
James started writing it because he wanted a Dark Age "big battle" type game but where heroes were important (as they are in the Sagas). It's element based units rather than individual model removal, so not like WAB in that sense.
Yes you buy upgrades/traits for your heroes so you can individualise them.
It hasn't felt especially generic and we've played games from Bronze Age myth to WotR and all points between. You just need to make sure the armies you build reflect your vision of the period. There are sugested lists in the book and there will be more available for download too.
-
James started writing it because he wanted a Dark Age "big battle" type game but where heroes were important (as they are in the Sagas). It's element based units rather than individual model removal, so not like WAB in that sense.
Yes you buy upgrades/traits for your heroes so you can individualise them ...
Good to hear you can individualise. I have no particular love of the WAB ruleset. What it offers is essentially big battles. In the physical sense of no max number of elements and a very large total number of minis on the table. Say a thousand! I just don't want to go down the route of DBA elements where you have very few minis. It just doesn't look like a wargame, more like chess.
In that sense I'm somewhat concerned that at 28mm the element width is just 12cm. That's going to limit unit sizes to probably only 4-6 minis wide. I only do dark age and like to see a decent shieldwall. I assume though that is easily solved by just pairing multiple 12cm elements into a wider elements. I wonder then though if you'd need to change all missile ranges etc.
Anyway will be buying when it finally comes out.
-
In that sense I'm somewhat concerned that at 28mm the element width is just 12cm. That's going to limit unit sizes to probably only 4-6 minis wide. I only do dark age and like to see a decent shieldwall. I assume though that is easily solved by just pairing multiple 12cm elements into a wider elements. I wonder then though if you'd need to change all missile ranges etc.
You can have bases whatever size you like - we've just settled on 120 as it allows for a reasonable number of decently sized "units" on a 6X4, but you can have them larger as suits your personal preference, collection and table size.
We played at Partizan a few years ago with double our standard size bases (twice as wide and twice as deep
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgeiP_XtmgLuziBJ7cOlFf5hOE61AGam2e8HVFwb2NrOoDUGbhD6KL0A2TpUfWtcKkpbFEGw_LZFtQ3aBeaEF4ekavouGJHMqKHYJakU8cOIwUGK7MAowwrKcBYdZyHhtWXAK4gAwXviMwwzEDckGF75UN083SHIe-cG5QWbzfUMNzPJCS6R9ZJD8n9yw=s800)
https://tomstoysoldiers.blogspot.com/2021/10/el-cid-at-partizan-2021-1.html
As written the rules define movements and range as multiples of "spear throw" and a "spear throw" is the frontage of whatever size base you are using. So if you want a 240mm wide base your "spear throw" would be 240mm. But you don't have to link spear throw to frontage, you could just decide on, say 6" as your default spear thrwo regardless of base frontage and play that way - it'll still work.
people have been playtesting with 10mm and 15mm armies on assorted different base sizes. I've played a solo game or two using my Warmaster 10mm on 40mm frontage bases etc. etc.
-
Mead Price rules, innit?
???
-
TWD, just curious about your impressions about how splitting base widths and spear throw (movement and shooting) distances will impact game play. My understanding is that in the rules as written base width and spear throws are equal to each other. If base widths are larger (ex 12 inches), but spear throws are proportionally smaller (ex 6 inches), will that mess with game balance? Each base will cover twice as much frontage that way, and shooting will (normally) reach fewer target bases, but I am not sure that would break the game. It might actually represent a dark ages shieldwall battle better (less emphasis on moving and shooting…).
I suppose one other difference would be having fewer bases on the table, which might change how quickly an army would reach its morale breaking point. Again, I am not sure that is a problem for representing dark ages battles - I suspect that once a big chunk of the main battle line collapsed the battle would be nearly over anyway… doesn’t matter whether that from losing 1-2 bases or losing 5-6!
-
Mead Price rules, innit?
???
No, as the title and repeated references in the posts state - it's Midgard.
James (the author of Midgard) wrote some fast play rules for simple Dark Age participation games called Mead Price (and gave them away on his blog) that have a few mechanics in common with Midgard. But Mead Price is a "beer and pretzels" over in 30 mins or so set - Midgard is a full set of rules.
-
TWD, just curious about your impressions about how splitting base widths and spear throw (movement and shooting) distances will impact game play. My understanding is that in the rules as written base width and spear throws are equal to each other. If base widths are larger (ex 12 inches), but spear throws are proportionally smaller (ex 6 inches), will that mess with game balance? Each base will cover twice as much frontage that way, and shooting will (normally) reach fewer target bases, but I am not sure that would break the game. It might actually represent a dark ages shieldwall battle better (less emphasis on moving and shooting…).
I suppose one other difference would be having fewer bases on the table, which might change how quickly an army would reach its morale breaking point. Again, I am not sure that is a problem for representing dark ages battles - I suspect that once a big chunk of the main battle line collapsed the battle would be nearly over anyway… doesn’t matter whether that from losing 1-2 bases or losing 5-6!
Doesn't seem to have when we've done that - though I'm sure there's some sort of point where any rule set will snap and break if you push it far enough :)
It's a pretty flexible set - but also worth noting that it's a relatively loose set intended for friendly play - it's not tournament tight so you may need to be liberal in some interpretation.
Shooting sin't terribly powerful and is reasonably restricted - more about breaking up attacks and disrupting than causing huge casualties so having fewer targets wouldn't necessarily make much difference.
Morale is a whole different subject - it's covered in a mechanic called Reputation which can go up as well as down during the game (especially if your leaders are doing heroic things). So fewer units would have you starting with fewer Reputation but conversely you wouldn't lose as much when a single unit flees.
-
Thanks for that reply, that all makes sense. I’m not a tournament player, so rules designed for friendly games are what I am after. I’ll be looking for more of your game reports- your games look pretty spectacular!
-
You can have bases whatever size you like - we've just settled on 120 as it allows for a reasonable number of decently sized "units" on a 6X4, but you can have them larger as suits your personal preference, collection and table size.
Thanks for the feedback. Precisely zero interest in tournament play. We've been doing WAB on anything from a 6x4 to 12x6 table using a house blend of WAB Fall of the West, Age of Arthur and Shieldwall supplements. Early on we decided to use a typical 16cm frontage for infantry units (8 wide and 3 ranks deep) and 15cm for cavalry (6 wide and 2 ranks deep) using movement trays. Frankly, it looks a bit skinny on the biggest table. My feeling combining four 12cm frontage trays would both give a 24cm frontage but also a more meaty 4-6 rank depth. Since all the minis are individually based, it isn't quite so hard to place them on sabots in the style that mogsymakes has them.
-
No, as the title and repeated references in the posts state - it's Midgard.
James (the author of Midgard) wrote some fast play rules for simple Dark Age participation games called Mead Price (and gave them away on his blog) that have a few mechanics in common with Midgard. But Mead Price is a "beer and pretzels" over in 30 mins or so set - Midgard is a full set of rules.
Thanks for that TWD. Just had my first go at Mead Price, loved it! Got myself in a right mess with retiring units crashing into their supports and shattering themselves.
Looks like I'll be gleaning a set of Midgard rules, when they're out.
:)
-
Thanks for the feedback. Precisely zero interest in tournament play. We've been doing WAB on anything from a 6x4 to 12x6 table using a house blend of WAB Fall of the West, Age of Arthur and Shieldwall supplements. Early on we decided to use a typical 16cm frontage for infantry units (8 wide and 3 ranks deep) and 15cm for cavalry (6 wide and 2 ranks deep) using movement trays. Frankly, it looks a bit skinny on the biggest table. My feeling combining four 12cm frontage trays would both give a 24cm frontage but also a more meaty 4-6 rank depth. Since all the minis are individually based, it isn't quite so hard to place them on sabots in the style that mogsymakes has them.
TWD has answered pretty much everything here but thought I'd chip in with my tuppenceworth regarding Midgard basing and Spear Throws:
1) As long as both your Forces are on rectangular bases with similar frontages, you can play with whatever size Units you like.
2) A base width is the same as a Spear Throw, so if you play with 16cm Unit bases, your Spear Throw will also be 16cm. (Spear Throws are used for shooting ranges and movement). I picked 12 cm as the default size for 28mm miniatures as it is an achievable goal for many gamers, requiring about 80-100 minis a side, and plays well on a 6x4' table. If you have more minis and space, you can go as large as you like.
3) Minimum Force sizes are around 8-10 Units and 3-5 Heroes.
You can read a lot more detail on basing for Midgard over on the website here if you wish: https://mogsymakes.net/basing-and-playing-areas-for-midgard-heroic-battles/ (https://mogsymakes.net/basing-and-playing-areas-for-midgard-heroic-battles/)
Cheers!
-
I'm sure there are literally dozens of people eagerly awaiting the Chain of Command Far East Handbook...
Rich is very keen to get Midgard out, but the priority of release has been affected by the layout and art arrangements for the book. This is being done out of house by Handiwork Games/ Jon Hodgson (who illustrated the Age of Arthur WAB book amongst others) who is pretty busy right now; however, it's going to look amazing when it finally gets here!
Once we are slightly closer to release, we will be starting up a Facebook group to support the game, staffed mostly by members of the play test group, so keep an eye out for that.
Thanks for your patience.
-
Oh my, that sounds brilliant! If Jon Hodgson’s layout work is as good as his work on his own backdrop books, Midgard is going to be visually spectacular, as well as a great game. I’m even more enthusiastic about this upcoming release now!
-
TWD has answered pretty much everything here but thought I'd chip in with my tuppenceworth regarding Midgard basing and Spear Throws:
1) As long as both your Forces are on rectangular bases with similar frontages, you can play with whatever size Units you like.
2) A base width is the same as a Spear Throw, so if you play with 16cm Unit bases, your Spear Throw will also be 16cm. (Spear Throws are used for shooting ranges and movement). I picked 12 cm as the default size for 28mm miniatures as it is an achievable goal for many gamers, requiring about 80-100 minis a side, and plays well on a 6x4' table. If you have more minis and space, you can go as large as you like.
3) Minimum Force sizes are around 8-10 Units and 3-5 Heroes.
You can read a lot more detail on basing for Midgard over on the website here if you wish: https://mogsymakes.net/basing-and-playing-areas-for-midgard-heroic-battles/ (https://mogsymakes.net/basing-and-playing-areas-for-midgard-heroic-battles/)
Cheers!
Thanks for chipping in. I've read all your blog articles on Midgard. I'm happy to rebase to a 12cm frontage. For a 12ft wide table, I think the natural thing then is to combine 4x12cm elements to create a 24cm frontage element with twice the depth.
You say on your blog that base depth doesn't matter so I assume there are no rank bonuses etc like WAB. The ranks are purely aesthetic. One of our biggest practical issues with WAB is ranking up close order units. There is just no way say Victrix minis with their larger size and dynamic poses can be ranked up on 20x20mm bases.
-
Rich is very keen to get Midgard out, but the priority of release has been affected by the layout and art arrangements for the book. This is being done out of house by Handiwork Games/ Jon Hodgson (who illustrated the Age of Arthur WAB book amongst others) who is pretty busy right now; however, it's going to look amazing when it finally gets here!
Once we are slightly closer to release, we will be starting up a Facebook group to support the game, staffed mostly by members of the play test group, so keep an eye out for that.
Thanks for your patience.
Just going on the very early playtesting on Zoom I was very briefly involved in (well, watching really); combine that with the ongoing rigorous playtesting Midgard will no doubt have received from both you and the Lardy crew I'm very confident that this will be a great set of rules.
I too am looking forward to the date I can get a copy in my mitts! :)
-
Thanks for chipping in. I've read all your blog articles on Midgard. I'm happy to rebase to a 12cm frontage. For a 12ft wide table, I think the natural thing then is to combine 4x12cm elements to create a 24cm frontage element with twice the depth.
You say on your blog that base depth doesn't matter so I assume there are no rank bonuses etc like WAB. The ranks are purely aesthetic. One of our biggest practical issues with WAB is ranking up close order units. There is just no way say Victrix minis with their larger size and dynamic poses can be ranked up on 20x20mm bases.
Yes, there are no rank bonuses. Units are assumed to be fighting in the best formation that they can within their rectangular base, so you can base minis however you like. With WAB, I always used a 20x25mm deep base as standard for infantry to accommodate more animated models, but even that’s not really sufficient for some of today’s very animated poses.
Having said that there are no rank bonuses, there are significant support bonuses if you have unengaged friendly units nearby during combat - so using a double line of units is usually an advantage.
-
the wait goes on.....Midgard, where for art thou? ;D
-
Rich is very keen to get Midgard out, but the priority of release has been affected by the layout and art arrangements for the book. This is being done out of house by Handiwork Games/ Jon Hodgson (who illustrated the Age of Arthur WAB book amongst others) who is pretty busy right now; however, it's going to look amazing when it finally gets here!
Once we are slightly closer to release, we will be starting up a Facebook group to support the game, staffed mostly by members of the play test group, so keep an eye out for that.
Thanks for your patience.
Perhaps I over-egged the sarcasm, apologies. I am very much looking forward to the rules and have been since Salute last year.
-
I am beside myself with excitement ;D