Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Rogerc on March 27, 2024, 11:00:43 PM
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I am revisiting my stalled Russo-Polish War project as the RCW element of my collections is all but done. Review of plans etc on my blog here : https://gapagnw.blogspot.com/2024/03/russo-polish-war-1920-plans.html
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiRhuh87Cb8nfKGbT2_po51nlNbhIP4QBM0zcqrDvfiHTMDmDCRqLN67YchcbOVPXFNZGjcYq2QMhYkB1ZlfqbLpo-XoGCS-ykyYwXIG_KSKaWWkOTwgXyfvGssWyaX3ZYgDjKpbUy7LdoeJE8rwm6DjOnS3bmhry_wZ6DJmzCbI93Scv19YFOzzmefr0I/s2015/20240111_130726.jpg)
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An interesting and beautiful project. Looking forward to the continuation
For the Polish army you can use Russian cannons, machine guns and armored vehicles. The Poles received many such trophies from the Germans, Ukrainians and, later, the Bolsheviks.
(http://i.imgur.com/xYRYWEV.jpeg)
The Polish M1917 uniform was a German "gray-green" color, the M1919 uniform was a khaki (mustard) uniform.
The Cossacks were indeed Don Cossacks, had a Russian uniform and were distinguished by the presence of a special patch on the left sleeve.
In addition, I came across stories in the memoirs of eyewitnesses that the author saw an attack by a hundred Cossacks who served on the Polish side, dressed in Budennovkas, on which a white cross was sewn instead of a star.
(http://i.imgur.com/St21nvS.jpg)
Cossack - left, above is his patch on the sleeve.
You could also create a unit of Ukrainians who fought in the 1920 war as allies of the Poles.
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Love the bloke in the fedora and the hussar breeches. It's like someone who has turned up to a party on the mistaken assumption that it was a fancy dress do. :)
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Unfortunately, I received this drawing without an annotation and I don’t know exactly who all the characters in it are. But specifically in the case you described, the opposite is true: trousers embroidered with patterns are part of the national costume of Czechs, Hungarians and other residents of Eastern Europe. And it was from them that the hussars borrowed their uniform.
This most likely depicts a Kashubian - one of the Slavic peoples living in Poland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashubians
(http://s1.tvp.pl/images2/1/5/1/uid_1513632b249c34fa5608ecc8eb7febb81570456787162_width_1374_play_0_pos_0_gs_0_height_775.jpg)
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Well at least they aren't Kardashians. ;)
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Well at least they aren't Kardashians. ;)
lol lol lol
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Love the bloke in the fedora and the hussar breeches. It's like someone who has turned up to a party on the mistaken assumption that it was a fancy dress do. :)
It does not seem to be hussars breeches, those were made in every European country after Hungarian uniform style, which was based on the Hungarian folklore style embroidery featuring loops and knots made into lily and tulip shapes. This sun motif suggests more of some Slavic folklore clothing. Strange though, as this type of traditional clothing was replaced in the late 19th century with industry-made clothes, traditional clothing remained in use only for special occasions- if even.
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Might be a member of a secret internationalist column of Morris Dancers. :)
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Let's not forget that the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century was the heyday of nationalism in Eastern Europe. Let us at least recall the Sokol movement and the mass imitation of it in Slavic countries, including Poland. Moreover, often members of such paramilitary organizations used their national costume or its elements as the basis for their uniform.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokol_movement
(http://i.imgur.com/AvnzYyu.jpeg)
Fighting squad of Krakow.
Also, for example, the Bavarian Freikorps had uniforms in the national style.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokol_movement
Thanks for the link! Learned something new today.
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Some really interesting stuff their Cuprum thank you. I wont paint Cossacks specifically for the Poles but may decide to add in existing White Don Cossacks for particular games. I am however very tempted by the idea of a Ukranian unit or two.
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The Ukrainians fought by themselves largely, to the very south -- so away from the best known theatres. It's not like their commitment to the Polish cause was very high. They just wanted to avoid being over-run.
If you want a unit of non-Poles, I would suggest Bulak-Bulakhovich's motley, but effective, "Belarussians".
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Thanks Mark, are they likely in old Russian uniforms?
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I'm going to go with a yes on that, but I'm only guessing.
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Cheers Mark, I id consider the Belorussion- Ukranian Division, one to come back to, especially if there something to make them look different, I have read a bit about them and they saw plenty of action so a potential addition. That said the forces I have in mind will probably cover enough for a decent sized game.
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There is a photo of Officers of the 1st Lithuanian - Belorussian Division on the Warsaw 1920 Osprey, they are mainly in Polish uniforms with the small crowned Polish cap.
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The 1st Lit-Bel was an entirely Polish unit. That part of the world, like the western Ukraine, had a lot of Poles before Stalin's ethnic cleansing at the end of WWII, and 1920 Poland extended a long way into modern Lithuania and Belarus.
Bulak-Bulakhovich's lot were ethnic Russians. Originally part of the North-Western Army, then with men recruited from those Whites that made it to Poland and from former Red POWs.
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Right, so possibly in the german uniforms of the North Western Army but more likely in Russian Tsarist uniforms I guess?
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It won't be German. Bulak-Bulakhovich dressed in Cossack himself, and almost all his men were Red Army deserters.
His Russian-ness was a big deal, so that seems most likely.
Since all the German uniforms would go to Poznanian units, French uniforms to the ex-Blue armies, and new Polish ones to the likes of the Legions, I would guess that left them only Russian (or possibly English, if they shipped any to Poland).
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The Lithuanian-Belarusian division consisted of residents of territories that once belonged to the Principality of Lithuania. There were not only Poles here, but also Belarusians of the Catholic religion. There were practically no Lithuanians in this division, since Lithuania created its own state - the Republic of Lithuania.
The division was created from soldiers of the Polish army and with a specific political goal - the annexation of territories claimed by three countries: Poland, Lithuania and Russia. A sort of “proxy army” of Poland, which was used to capture Vilna from the Republic of Lithuania.
The division was equipped in the usual Polish uniform mod. 1917 and did not have any special insignia.
By the way, the Poles and Lithuanians fought among themselves for the disputed territories; Soviet Russia actually acted as an ally of the Republic of Lithuania and transferred Vilna to Lithuania, which the Poles had previously taken from the Lithuanians.
The army of the Belarusian Republic itself is a “paper” formation that has no real military force. There is no point in reproducing it on a gaming table.
Bulak-Balakhovich's army wore Russian uniforms (in the cavalry - Cossack ones), later (by 1920) they began to use Polish and American uniforms. They often began to wear a garrison cap with a characteristic trim. The insignia on the headdress is a crossed skull and bones. A white cross was often worn on the left sleeve.
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A little bit unfair Cuprum, because the Polish state didn't form the Lit-Bel Division in order to do something that was three year's into the future. The three first regiments and the cavalry were self-defense organisations in the Lithuania-Belorussia area, formed very early. The fourth regiment was added later when the division formed, but was men fleeing the same area.
It was added to the Polish army as its 19th Infantry Division. Some of the unit were not entirely happy with that, because they felt their aims to have Poland extend a long way east were being lost.
Then Pilsudski reverted it back to being the "1st Lit-Bel Division" because he wanted, as you say, a proxy unit to do his dirty work with regards to Vilnius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBeligowski's_Mutiny).
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Sorry to dig up old topic but I have few words about the uniform:
Firstly - Great project - Love it!
The Polish M1917 uniform was a German "gray-green" color, the M1919 uniform was a khaki (mustard) uniform.
There is no such thing as Polish 1917 uniorm.
Before unification reforms Polish army wore 3 basic type of uniforms
Legionary (polonised Austro Hungarian hechtgrau) - Leggionaruy and ex AUstro Hungarian units, on the front since November 1918
German type WWI Feldgrau - Armia Wielkopolska units from ex German held land won in Powstanie Wielkopolskie - against the Bolsheviks since August 1919
German helmets were in common use.
French horizon bleu - used by Haller's army transfered from France (tanks were also painted in French camo - against the Bolsheviks since June 1919
French Arian helmets are perfectly ok for them.
4th Russian was used mostly in Siberian division.
They were never mixed and unit based (Pułk - Regiment sized units dressed the same)
This hechtgrau Legionary uniform is totally Ok, just use it with Austro Hungarian equipment and with round hats.
1919 type uniform would not have chest pockets, while Legionary uniforms would have pockets with Austro-hungarian style.
(https://img1.onebid.pl/img/89/15884_1b.jpg)
(https://partyzant.pl/userdata/public/gfx/4233/20210126-_DSC3672-Edit.jpg)
Legionary
(https://partyzant.pl/userdata/public/gfx/3212/20191022-_DSC5114-Edit.jpg)
1919
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Uniform of the 1917 model
(http://i.imgur.com/Rzr3I9X.jpeg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RNQF6dK.jpeg)
(http://a.allegroimg.com/original/038a6b/9704b6b94da2b45098b31578d170/Mundur-wz-17-Polskiej-Sily-Zbrojnej)
Uniform of the 1919 model
(http://i.imgur.com/vlv0lQB.jpeg)
(http://partyzant.pl/userdata/public/gfx/3212/20191022-_DSC5114-Edit.jpg)
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Thanks all, I am making good progress with this, first unit in the German type uniforms completed and more detail to follow.
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This is all great stuff. I particularly like the color photos of reproduction uniforms.
But Hechtgrau in 1918? I thought the Austro-Hungarians had switched to feldgrau or nettle green in 1916. Wouldn't any Austrian surplus or uniforms of
Polish units be in the latter colors? I would think that all Hechtgrau stocks would've been used up, especially since Austria was hard pressed at the end of
the war.
Or am I way off?
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(http://i.imgur.com/M1YM03e.jpeg)
In fact, the Austrian uniform could be found in a variety of shades of protective color. Cloth of different years of manufacture was used, there were difficulties with the dye, and many other reasons for this. No matter which of these shades you dyed the uniform in, it cannot be considered a mistake. Moreover, Polish cavalrymen (mostly officers) quite willingly used even elements of the colored ceremonial Austrian uniform.
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A bit of an update for this project. Some Progress with my Poles and Anarchists ahead of a 1920 game, https://gapagnw.blogspot.com/2025/05/return-to-poles-1919-20.html?sc=1748604626098#c4431165335632635174
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjF78cWVmC5bqR8JM46WZdz7pz5ICdm4BCXthl3-7tBcMt4ELPUrJ38nP7uCG98HBJ88TpM1CDqzqZADDzMPTO7NM59fSFv9ittWc3VpGVu438dr3gX28kiJSNGOK22M99Y-Ti3tbzVu24QowvRq7KZAl4vfk9mZ5C6EcBxrnkuc9h0LoiYrWayNpya4uU/w400-h300/IMG_6684.jpeg)
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A few more Russian Civil War figures, Reds, Anarchists and Poles coming along nicely here; https://gapagnw.blogspot.com/2025/06/progress-with-1919-20-poles-and.html
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhjX2nstVln6XTSPQwEVe0wiDcn9GAeGgXmoADSeWcOQO09P9JjbagZf9qmtTtlPvJy0CX7YHmBfgNr6I0BcgIPIi8-f_uKbSRm77ZPiBx95MZg6zE77lyPlhOtT36kxSEeE4iCwpdGX3hLs3FLYWeJiWf03ViTtAgqv1YyD4GRBbR6ENVxRPZ8LZwXKs8/w250-h400/IMG_6737.jpeg)
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Great work on that one! 😍
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He came out well, sometimes I use him as a bandit in pulp games.
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I reckon he will be useful in all sorts of scenarios.
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Really nice work on the Anarchist units in particular!
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Cheers Dr Bogo, game report for them coming shortly.
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A few different troops off the workbench mainly Anarchists but others too, lots of pictures and some narrative here for those interested in finding out more: https://gapagnw.blogspot.com/2025/06/bit-of-mixed-workbench-update.html
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhlu0BCk_Q11uWuE5qJHPIlyBMZLqR0C8vqxSF7CO49D_rjKqul0WMPSAwEdI5W-6UlYA6duPpBflu57VWLleQ3RRvlVxq9YBXxJdH6DtinP_6q3eAijIr_cd2YAtsX4dhmOjkEIUvQZlQv__KC3q-_mFi8dI3MPh0sxbtLjkIJ-GhyR-3FRCLQ8z-SnWI/s3608/IMG_7118.jpeg)
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Lovely stuff. The battle pics on your blog look great too. The anarchists are a nice addition.
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Cheers Trev, the Anarchists are a lot of fun.