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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Ragnar on 14 May 2024, 07:23:48 AM

Title: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Ragnar on 14 May 2024, 07:23:48 AM
Hi all, does anyone have information on the livery flag and badge for Sir William Beaumont of Stowe Bardolf, 2nd Viscount Beaumont d.1507?

Failing any hard evidence, any best guesses?

Edit: I've checked my Freezywater books but can't find the answer in them
Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Overlord on 14 May 2024, 09:14:08 AM
The Vexillia livery colours database lists Sir William as Azure Argent (White):
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html

The Graham Turner painting "Standoff at St Michaels mount" depicts Sir William with retainers (3 men to left), with one displaying what appears to be a grey elephant and howdah livery badge.
(https://www.studio88.co.uk/acatalog/large_st_michaels_mount_1474.jpg)
https://www.studio88.co.uk/acatalog/standoff_at_st_michaels_mount_1474.html

This memorial brass also shows an elephant and howdah at his feet. Which is where (I assume) Graham took the inspiration from:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Beaumont_gri_33125008701571_0134.jpg
Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Ragnar on 14 May 2024, 10:37:31 AM
Awesome, thanks guys.

Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Hunlion on 14 May 2024, 12:02:49 PM
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Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Hunlion on 14 May 2024, 12:08:10 PM
I sent the image here...  https://www.facebook.com/groups/897063627788855

HunLion
Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Ragnar on 16 May 2024, 08:29:51 PM
Thanks Hunlion
Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Sandinista on 18 May 2024, 12:19:28 AM
His great grand father was John Beaumont, 4th Baron Beaumont. The wikipedia page has an image of is garter stall plate the crest and decorations in blue and white could be a basis for a livery and badges
Ian
Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Wilgut Spleens on 20 May 2024, 07:02:37 PM
The Vexillia livery colours database lists Sir William as Azure (White):
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html

The Graham Turner painting "Standoff at St Michaels mount" depicts Sir William with retainers (3 men to left), with one displaying what appears to be a grey elephant and howdah livery badge.
(https://www.studio88.co.uk/acatalog/large_st_michaels_mount_1474.jpg)
https://www.studio88.co.uk/acatalog/standoff_at_st_michaels_mount_1474.html

This memorial brass also shows an elephant and howdah at his feet. Which is where (I assume) Graham took the inspiration from:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Beaumont_gri_33125008701571_0134.jpg
I hate to be that person but azure is blue
Title: Re: Livery flag and badge help
Post by: Overlord on 20 May 2024, 07:22:24 PM
I hate to be that person but azure is blue
Oops, my bad. It is given as 'Argent' (silver/white), but for some reason I put 'Azure'. 
(Edited my earlier post to correct it.)

On a similar subject, does anyone know the livery colour(s) for:

Sir John Throckmorton (1426-1461) executed after Mortimer's Cross?
Sir John Throckmorton of Fladbury, pardoned after Tewkesbury 1471
(Very distant relatives, I'd like to depict one on the tabletop.)