Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Terryb on May 27, 2024, 05:13:32 PM
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Hi chaps
Apologies if sounds like a stupid question, but was the German Field grey that the Germans used for WW2, the same shade as the WW1 uniform.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Hi chaps
Apologies if sounds like a stupid question, but was the German Field grey that the Germans used for WW2, the same shade as the WW1 uniform.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Yes.
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It's pretty safe to say yes, since the colour of "field grey" in both wars was wildly variable, ranging from quite green to quite brown. Also, the colours of the dress uniform and service uniform were distinctly different.
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I’d say yes, but then it wasn’t even the same in WW2 as it was in WW2.
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Thanks guys , very much appreciated 😃
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Pre-war uniforms were often a lighter, greyer, tone than later war time items. So if you are looking at 1914 then perhaps aim for a less greenish grey.
Later war uniforms can be a spectrum of colours. I have an actual, very moth eaten, 1917 model feldmutze, with the universal green band. It's a rather coarse grey wool with a distinctly greenish cast to it.
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Indeed, the exect colour of a uniform depends on the manufacturer, exact time of the manufacturing and how many times it was washed. But the German army did not generally change the uniform colour between the two wws, so from modeling point of view using the same colour scheme for both wws is more than justified.
My recipe is: Tamyia Field Grey base, Nuln Oil wash, drybrush with a mix of Tamiya Field Grey and white.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kkNwu7gIhFU/YGT5jAlhdTI/AAAAAAAACn4/0YrGGs1fpzIG3dTGMT6HwEZww8EbpYuMgCLcBGAsYHQ/w680-h293/Ujratalpalt_nemetek.jpg)
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Very, very helpful, thank you guys
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You mean it wasn’t the purplish dark grey shown in my old comics and on the Airfix boxes? I feel betrayed!
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You mean it wasn’t the purplish dark grey shown in my old comics and on the Airfix boxes? I feel betrayed!
I think most German-themed modellers went through this ,,daaaaaaamn" moment somewhere along their journey. Including me :)
You might find some solace in the fact that this type of German uniform faded into a more and more greyish tone with several washing cycles. Also ww2 Luftwaffe ground units really had that blueish grey uniform. And if you really can not imagine your ww1 wargamer carreer without blueish grey guys with Stahlhelms, you can always join the glorious armies of Austria-Hungary.
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I recall an issue of Life Magazine that came out on the 50th anniversary of August 1914, with photos and paintings. One painting was of a unit of Austro-Hungarian troops squatting around a road, trousers down in a circle facing out. In the middle of the road was a mounted officer. The unit was suffering dysentery and needed breaks. The CO decided the men shouldn't be looking at him while performing that bodily function, so they all faced away. Strange image, to say the least. It made a lasting impression.
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Yet, 60 years later, you still haven’t completed the diorama?
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You might find some solace in the fact that this type of German uniform faded into a more and more greyish tone with several washing cycles. Also ww2 Luftwaffe ground units really had that blueish grey uniform. And if you really can not imagine your ww1 wargamer carreer without blueish grey guys with Stahlhelms, you can always join the glorious armies of Austria-Hungary.
But weren’t the early ones bright gloss? Surely everyone knows that!
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Yet, 60 years later, you still haven’t completed the diorama?
lol
Who makes squatting Austro-Hungarian infantry with trews down? In 15mm?
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lol
Who makes squatting Austro-Hungarian infantry with trews down? In 15mm?
Arschloch Miniatures. It's quite a niche range, mostly covering the Balkans. Bulgarians with dysentry. Italians undergoing checks for venereal disease, Albanians stealing donkeys, Serbians romancing donkeys, Greek Evzones Voguing etc, etc.
Leaving aside Balkan maladies. I wonder how many German paratroopers have been painted with bright blue helmets and trousers over the years as a direct result of Airfix's box art?
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lol
Who makes squatting Austro-Hungarian infantry with trews down? In 15mm?
I take it you’re not keen about kitbashing? If not, I’m sure some enterprising creator of 3D-printed miniatures will soon answer the call.
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Good one, Carlos. Without wishing to go off on too much of a tangent, your reference to the underexplored but ever fascinating topic of dysentery reminds me of a description of Austro-Hungarians throwing food tins filled with faeces at Italians on the Isonzo front, presumably having run out of grenades. I must point out, however, that this comes from Mark Thompson’s White War, about which reservations have been expressed in another thread. I have no way of knowing whether this is an example of the misinformation Thompson is alleged to have perpetrated. It may be an area in which the necessary research is lacking.
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Good one, Carlos. Without wishing to go off on too much of a tangent, your reference to the underexplored but ever fascinating topic of dysentery reminds me of a description of Austro-Hungarians throwing food tins filled with faeces at Italians on the Isonzo front, presumably having run out of grenades. I must point out, however, that this comes from Mark Thompson’s White War, about which reservations have been expressed in another thread. I have no way of knowing whether this is an example of the misinformation Thompson is alleged to have perpetrated. It may be an area in which the necessary research is lacking.
As on the Italian front the "deadly 400m" was sometimes vertical, according to some memoires, strategically placed latrines were a thing from the lucky soldiers in the upper trench :)
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Interesting. I picked up a copy of Thompson's book second hand many years back. Looked like it was either a misprint or a printer's demo as it lacked the photos, was printed on rough, imperfectly cut paper and IIRC was even missing page numbers. Never got around to reading but if it's rubbish, maybe I never shall.
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Interesting. I picked up a copy of Thompson's book second hand many years back. Looked like it was either a misprint or a printer's demo as it lacked the photos, was printed on rough, imperfectly cut paper and IIRC was even missing page numbers. Never got around to reading but if it's rubbish, maybe I never shall.
I found it an interesting read but had nothing to compare it with so was blind to any flaws it may have had. There were plenty of quotes from impressed reviewers on the cover but they may have had much the same problem I did. One thing that did frustrate me a little was the amount of coverage on cultural issues which, while not uninteresting, didn’t really seem to belong there. I was also surprised to find no reference to Arditi - at least under that name, unless my memory is faulty - or that great Italian invention, the sub-machine gun. Otherwise the military aspects appeared to be covered well enough.
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As on the Italian front the "deadly 400m" was sometimes vertical, according to some memoires, strategically placed latrines were a thing from the lucky soldiers in the upper trench :)
That definitely makes sense. Throwing a tin of faeces with the regular parabola of a hand grenade would presumably be almost as unpleasant for the soldier launching it as for the recipients, giving the concept of friendly fire added pungency, whereas simply dropping it would be relatively risk-free, as long as he remembered to wash his hands afterwards.
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That definitely makes sense. Throwing a tin of faeces with the regular parabola of a hand grenade would presumably be almost as unpleasant for the soldier launching it as for the recipients, giving the concept of friendly fire added pungency, whereas simply dropping it would be relatively risk-free, as long as he remembered to wash his hands afterwards.
It was not direct dropping as that would come with the risk of getting a second hole right next to the main exit port. It was more like collecting the stuff the regular way and when the pile is big enough removing some obstacles and let the brown avalance roll.
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So no tins involved?
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The childish joys of pissing on the campfire and watching the ensuing steam cloud blow towards your camping companions' tents writ large.
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I have the impression you speak from experience, Carlos. Would any of this boisterous behaviour perchance have occasionally escalated into inserting Redback spiders into sleeping bags? On reflection, that would constitute attempted murder so an admission would be self-incriminating. Perhaps one of the less lethal bum-biting species?
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So no tins involved?
Nope, If I remember correctly that memoire the fun began when an Italian artillery shell hit the Hungarian latrine and covered everyting in shit. The vengeful Hungarians then started Operation Brown Avalanche.
The real horror is that in the Karst mountains water is a rare commodity as the ragstone surface is unable to hold any surface water, digging wells (and trenches btw) is hard as it is all stone, carrying it from behind the front is often disturbed by enemy fire. Soldiers actually suffered a lot from thirst. Now imagine all your stuff being covered in shit with your water rations barely enough for drinking.
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Carlos please behave :)
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Now imagine all your stuff being covered in shit with your water rations barely enough for drinking.
This is definitely an under-explored area. I foresee a multitude of scenarios being based on this further demonstration of the ‘war is hell’ paradigm, and a lot more brown paint being sold.
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Oh dear, what have I started? Cry havoc and let loose the turds of war.
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This is definitely an under-explored area. I foresee a multitude of scenarios being based on this further demonstration of the ‘war is hell’ paradigm, and a lot more brown paint being sold.
The OG brown avalanche was a Rhodian trick, when Antipatros (or maybe Kassandros? one of those Western successors) besieged the city. There was a wall section heavily damaged and, of course, heavily contested. The Rhodians built a second wall behind that and filled the gap between the two walls with all the good stuff. (Note: this was an ancient siege, so things did not happen fast). When the attackers finally brought down the damaged (outer) wall, they had a nasty surprise.
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I found it an interesting read but had nothing to compare it with so was blind to any flaws it may have had. There were plenty of quotes from impressed reviewers on the cover but they may have had much the same problem I did. One thing that did frustrate me a little was the amount of coverage on cultural issues which, while not uninteresting, didn’t really seem to belong there. I was also surprised to find no reference to Arditi - at least under that name, unless my memory is faulty - or that great Italian invention, the sub-machine gun. Otherwise the military aspects appeared to be covered well enough.
The issue with Thompson’s writing isn’t so much the general overview of Italian front, but rather the personal crusade he endeavors upon to portray the Italian army, and Cadorna in particular, in the worst way possible. Thompson finds whatever negative anecdote he can about the Italian army under Cadorna and uses it to craft the picture of a dysfunctional, demoralized force led by stupid, backwards leaders. The Italian army certainly had its problems during the Great War, and Cadorna definitely dealt insurmountable harm to his men’s morale, but many of the claims Thompson makes are either confirmed to be fabricated, or somehow Thompson has access to sources nobody else has seen and that he doesn't feel like sharing. One particular gripe I have with Thompson’s hyperbolic depiction is the admiration of Luigi Capello. While Capello did disagree with Cadorna’s operational decisions, once given command during the 10th and 11th battles of the Isonzo he managed to rack up even more horrendous casualty figures with less to show than Cadorna (something not mentioned by Thompson). As such, Thompson’s portrayal of the Italian army and Cadorna is more of a caricature rather than a characterization.
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Thank you, that is helpful. Could you comment on Thompson’s account of Cadorna’s supposedly draconian disciplinary measures, such as summary executions and decimations?
Edit: I now see that it was you who issued the warning about Thompson’s book in the thread I referred to. I take it his account of the practice of decimation is either unfounded or exaggerated?
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Useful review of the Thompson book. Cheers!
Perhaps he was confusing his Capello's and thought it was Fabio? The latter Capello did OK on the Italian front but proved a bit of a mixed bag on the wider, world stage.
Of course, I think there would be few enough Italians today who woud defend General Spalleti. ;)
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Of course, I think there would be few enough Italians today who woud defend General Spalleti. ;)
Perhaps, like the French in 1940, they will seek their salvation in the return of the hero of an earlier conflict. Sadly General Bearzot is unavailable. General Lippi might conceivably be coaxed out of retirement in his country’s hour of need, though whether he would fare better than Marshal Weygand in similar circumstances must be open to question.