Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: EarlsyD on August 16, 2024, 04:45:02 PM
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Hi all,
I have been working on a full 6x4 foot wargaming table to represent the city of Rome since i came back from a city break a few years ago. Its been a slow process, but has picke up pace recently.
I have seen some excellent posts on here that have given me some real inspiration. I want to keep this thread and update it to keep putting pressure on myself to complete the project as i have a nasty habit of starting things giving them my full attention for a few months then just letting them drop off.
So without further ado here are the first few photos of how it started a few months ago.
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First few posts well be back to back to get more images up.
Progressed with roof tiles and a bit more detail in the forum
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A few detail / upclose shots. Of the bath house mosaic and the via "mainus" (the main road on my board)
The idea is to have 4 "districts" one in each quadrant. Key items in each are;
1) the forum
2) the bathhouse
3) the slums / warehouse district
4) the temples
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Bit more progress
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More progress. I may not have painted the buildings yet. Or finished the roof tiles on some of the buildings. But i have made some planters and statues to add character to the board
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Planters in position.
I missed out the 2 pillars on the bath house kit from Sarrissa on purpose. I can't for the life of me remeber why and now think it looks stupid so have bought their pack of spare columns and will slide a couple in.
Also my work in progress aqueduct needed a lot of scaffold and some cranage to make it look realistic.
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When i started this project i had no game to play. I had dabled in Hail Ceasar but thats far to big. SPQR was an option but i could never quite get that to feel anything other than a legion vs legion slug fest with this board in mind. Which brought me to footsores Gangs of Rome. Just in time for V2.
I used to play mordheim back when i was school so the idea of small bands running around a big city full of unique individuals with little backgrounds and quirks, really appealed to me.
I made a gang. Then i made another. Then i planned 3 more ;D
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You might have already seen it, but another “street level” ancients game is Song of Blades and Dust written by another LAF member, Irregular Wars Nic. It uses the game engine from Song of Blades and Heroes, and adapts it to skullduggery in Rome, Greece, or (with a little tweaking for period flavour) other pre-gunpowder settings. It’s an easy system to use, but with a lot of subtlety. Playing that game on your table would be a fun afternoon, your terrain looks awesome!
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That is one impressive setup! :o
Very jealous indeed.
As Pattus Magnus has said, it would be absolutely perfect for Song of Shadows and Dust! :D
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I havn't looked at song of shadows and dust. Will give it a look over.
Just a quick update tonight as have been away this weekend. My under construction aqueduct is finished for now. Till i get bored and add more. I found the normal height wasn't enough it didnt give enough grandure to the setting. So i set about putting 1 on top of another so it would be twice as high. You can see in the background my temple complex. My feelings so far are that there isnt enough green. Most of the depictions i have been able to find has shown streets with next to no greener. But most of the literature i have read about the temple areas is that they often sat within areas that we would now class as parks so a bit of grass and some trees. Even if thats not entirely accurate it will serve to break up the grey cobblestone monotany of the gaming mat.
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Bit of detail on the aqeueduct with the scaffolds. Bricks and timbers ready to go
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Really great work EarlsyD. Your city looks great and I really like the layout a lot.
Having completed a similar project, my only suggestion is - keep plucking away bit by bit.
I had a looming convention game to drive me on, which helped immensely with my motivation.
Although, if I never have to lay another pan-tile roof it will be too soon.
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Cheers Furt, your actually one of my main inspirations as to how to translate the gritty images portrayed in shows such as HBO's rome into a 28mm setting. You made me realise how importsnt the little details are but my wife and my bank accoubt wont thank you for it ;) i have decided to focus this week on actually finishing a building too see how i can do.
So lets see...
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What a nice collection you have there!
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Great looking even at this stage!
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Absolutely marvellous, I really like the results you get from those MDF kits.
Out of interest, did you weigh down the bottom of the aqueduct to avoid it being toppled accidentally, and if so, what did you use? I had some really bad experiences with long, narrow pieces of scenery, but hadn't been able to get suitable weights of a matching size and heft.
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So i got a building finished.
The front with creeper plant and flowers in pots. As well as a couple of civilian mob bases i have been working on.
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The back with additional balconies i made from cutting up a ludos spectator stand set i had in mind for something else. Fountain is the first of many i will have and of course grafetti. Mostly lewd in true roman fashion.
I didnt weigh it down actually thats a good idea i havnt used it yet but can just image all my loveingly crafted individual gangers and the mobs roaming around only to have some clumsy giant knock over their aqeueduct and snap them off at the ankles.
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That’s a beautiful building, the potted plants and other details all add to the sense that it is lived in. The mob bases look quite good, too. I’m enjoying seeing the updates!
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very nice building, the grafitti is very good
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This will be - when finished - a truly spectacular gaming table. As to adding color, while I'm no expert on the era, weren't buildings and statues very colorful at the time, not just bare stone?
I shall endeavor to keep on eye an this thread - and give gentle chastisement whenever it isn't progressing. :o lol And, yes, the "when finished" was very intentional. ;)
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I am in awe, I want to play at your house!
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Painted statues does seem to be the direction archaeological research is leading us, at least with ones carved in stone or wood - the ones done in gold and ivory wouldn’t have been painted overall, but some details might have been. (I’m not sure about evidence around paint on bronze statues…).
It is kind of odd thinking about those full sized statues painted, like some 1:1 scale miniature. The effects of some figures, such as Priapus, done in realistic colours would be …. disturbing.
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Painted statues does seem to be the direction archaeological research is leading us, at least with ones carved in stone or wood - the ones done in gold and ivory wouldn’t have been painted overall, but some details might have been. (I’m not sure about evidence around paint on bronze statues…).
It is kind of odd thinking about those full sized statues painted, like some 1:1 scale miniature. The effects of some figures, such as Priapus, done in realistic colours would be …. disturbing.
They did things differently back then.
Not your grandmother's griffin (well hopefully not):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascinus#/media/File:Tintinnabulum_Pompeii_MAN_Napoli_Inv27839.jpg
I'll just post the link but imagine that hanging off your toga.
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Very nice work. :-* :-* :-*
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Another building finished.
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I thought with a few bits done it was a nice opportunity to stage a few small areas see what the vibe is.
I recon i need more scatter bits, rubbish piled up against buildings empty amphora, empty takeaway wrappers lose and on small bases so i can move it around and put it anywhere i like. Maybe a dead dog as well.
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A few POV type shots and one with a few figures
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Full resolution image
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Superb.
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Beautifully painted miniatures and buildings.
I particularly like your mob bases.
Though .... soldiers on the streets of Rome? Is there a civil war on? Or are they from the Urban Cohorts? Enquiring minds want to know! :)
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That was kind of what i was aiming for without just using the standard lorcia segmenta "oh heres a legionary look". One of my gangs for Gangs of Rome is called "The College of Mithras" they are a gang made up of ex-legionaries, led by an Ex-Centurion Titus-Decimus-Longinus known simply as "The Centurion". I have little back stories for them all but most were either invalided out or dishonorably discharged for misconduct or criminal activity.
The one in white is called Julius-Carius-Maximus, known as "Hippocrates" and was a medicus, he was discharged after 4 years with the 13th legion, nobody knows why.
The gang is 10 strong so far its members are;
"The Centurion" - ex-centurion
"Hippocrates" - ex-medicus
"Castus" - ex-legionary
"Felix" - ex-legionary
"Cato" - ex-legionary
"Pulcho" - escaped slave (the one holding the head up)
"Apollo" - Greek actor (archer)
"Narcissus" - escaped slave (slinger)
"Aurochs" - ex-batavian auxilliary
"Arminius" - ex-german auxilliary
I have a few photos of them actually
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Those buildings are excellent, and nice minis too! Perfectly capture the atmosphere.
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The buildings look amazing. :-*
How do you do the roof tiles?
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Roof tiles i used corrigated card. Bought it on amazon its about A3 sized and a pack has 20 sheets i think. It goes a long way. Just cut the sheet into 1cm thick strips and overlap tgem starting at tye bottom. For the ridge tiles i used cardboard straws cut into 2cm long sections and split down the middle and overlaped. All painted with a base cowt of terracotta red from B&Q and then sponged with a few light dabs of "clay" a fabric paint my wife had goibg to waste.
I have a bit of a work in progress of my temple garden that shows the tiles before i painted them
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Thank-you for the explanation of the roof tiles.
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Just as well here as anywhere else. Stems from earlier mention of amphora. So, I was sorting through a pack of craft store seashells looking for the smallest of the smallest shells to use in my 15 mm projects and my N scale model railroad seaport project. During the process I came across a few shells that were nearly perfect renditions of amphora with a single handle on one side and I wondered if such shells might have been the original inspiration for the shape of such vessels? Who knows but a curious bit of minutiae.
And, yes, lovely modeling continues - and painting.
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Been hard these last few days. Had a bit of bad news and a lul followed but the weekend is here so back on it. Doing the temple complex at the moment.
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I have finished 2 of my 3 temple buildings. So there is the Temple of neptune and the Shrine to Fastus (Pan). The temple of neptune is still missing its big double doors that are due next week, but I'm happy with it as it is, should add a bit of green to an otherwise bland area. May revisit the Temple of Neptune and paint a bit of colour into the fresco in the apex at the front when i do the doors.
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The temples and their grounds look fantastic and will, as you say, give a bit of green to add colour to the area.
The statues on their giant columns look very impressive to.
Is the Temple of Pan the Sarissa Mausoleum? It looks good. I need to get a temple of some sort for my haruspex.
A delight to see, as ever. Thanks.
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It is indeed the sarrissa mausoleum, originally i did it as part of a grave yard on the road in i was doing when i was looking at Hail Ceasar. It and the temple are removable from the grounds so i could use them elsewhere if i wanted. My 3rd temple is the round temple of hercules, but tiling that roof is giving me nightmares!
The columns are from Etsy stuck on sarrissa plinths.
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The trees make a huge difference. Neptune needs something like a trident or a football. Where did the tall columns come from?
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The columns are from a shop on Etsy called ArcitecturalGiftsUK.
I agree i will get something for neptune. May have to use a paper clip and a hammer or one of my wifes sewing pins. The wire spears and tridents i have found are too big to fit into his incredably tiny hand!
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would a lightning bolt out of plasticard work?
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would a lightning bolt out of plasticard work?
Only if it's going to become a temple of Ivpter Optimvs Maximvs
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Day 4 of a 2 week holiday away with the family and I am chomping at the bit to get back into some. Still i took a photo before i left with everything i have done so far and the partially done bits.
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Absolutely stunning stuff.
The attention to detail is amazing.
I love things like the gaggle of geese base.
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That is an amazing table, so many well done buildings, and then the figures as well!
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I could do with a bit of help actually. What with this being a font of knowledge . I have looked high and low for 2 things. First i would like some scaled chicken coops with or without chickens in them, to represent the sacred poultry. Second i would like a few dead dogs. I am struggling to find them anywhere, google has turned up dry! Any ideas?
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Not aware of any 28mm Roman chicken coops (Gallinaria) but there are a couple of descriptions of how to design coops by Roman authors. They may help you find something suitable which was not designed as a Roman hen house.
This is from http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09e03a11.pdf (http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09e03a11.pdf)
Gallinaria - housing in Roman times
Let me quote Columnella:
“…… Poultry yards should be constructed in that part of the country estate which
faces the rising sun in winter; they should adjoin the bake-house or the kitchen
so that the birds may be reached by the smoke which is very good for them. The
structure, that is to say the henhouse, should consist of three adjacent
chambers, and the entire front, as I have just said, should face east. In this front
there should be only one narrow entrance to the middle chamber; and this
chamber, which is the smallest of the three, should be seven feet in height and
in each direction.
…. Birds should not be allowed to sleep on the floors, lest they be harmed by
their droppings, which are apt to cause gout if clogged under the arches of their
feet. In order not to incur this disease, smooth, round perches are fashioned that
do no harm to the birds that settle on them. The perches are fixed in holes in the
opposite walls in such a way that they are a foot above the platform and there
are two feet between them…..”
Varro stated as follows:
“…If you wish to rear two hundred fowls, you must prepare an enclosure containing two large connected
hutches facing east, each about 10 feet long by 5 feet broad, and rather less than 10 feet high.Each hutch should have a window three feet by one and these should be protected with osier twigsspaced in such a way that light may enter without, however, allowing any noxious beast to
gain access and harm the chickens…..”
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The only "dead" dog I can think of is by Wargames Design Workshop. They have a prone dog, dead tired rather than dead I suppose. Suitably painted I think it might do?
It is available solo or as part of packs with other animals - cat, rat, fox.
https://wargamesdesignworkshop.co.uk/product/animal-pack-2-cat-2-prone-dogs-and-2-foxes/
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One option for the dead dog: find an upright dog and Very Carefully remove the base without damaging the paws any more than possible (some likely) and then give it a good solid whack or three with a sledge hammer, especially to 'flatten' the legs and, voila, a dead dog.
Works a treat for lots of critters - started doing this for my African animal herds since very few, if any at all, 'dead' animals are out there - except for African Cape buffalo because I custom commissioned a dead animal for a herd (only currently available directly from me and in limited numbers in 15 mm; live herd without the dead but with a human rider is available from Highlander Studios.)
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I have to ask for pics of the end product using this method...
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I'd be more inclined to cut the legs across the top and push them down then infill the gap with scrap plastic (sprue) and shape. I've done this when repositioning arms and legs on plastic figures. Get a file or knife and flatten the underside too. A hammer could just shatter a miniature but at least use a thick piece of leather or similar over the miniature if you try this to avoid hammer marks on the surface.
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Never had issues with shattering - though I work in 15 mm by and large. And no hammer marks because the head of the sledge hammer is smooth and larger than the figure and I place said figure on a hard, smooth surface like concrete. I have used plastic figures, too, but decided the legs being off the ground was just rigamortis.
I will see if I can get a photo up soon, though. edit:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjabte7OhKRe3IZjd9lk3Kj2OBALPlA3lvaT1CncCs-lqhHyP7zxn65Ge37Y2pO9mBEH_8kGaAKmoyUGMZf247O7a6dGk2rrMXCABGCfMMsBD3lvPztdOgzIW822tGSicCxfcLpMWSwUS6i0zxbVyhwX7cno3NCGQGvzzCXOxmc1_Mqjx2eGsQPpq9uRIr8/w640-h480/IMG_2704.jpg)
From a posting here on LAF earlier this year - of dead zebra using above technique.
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I'm back. No progress yet but had a play around with the layout. Recon i need a few more buildings now i have "cluttered" the streetw a bit more. It so happens i have loads still to make so thats ok.
I love the idea of smashing them with a sledge hammer to make the "un-alive" very fitting, give a true meaning to the phrase "knackered".
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I remember a few years ago the sculptor of a line of miniatures said he made his casualty figures by cutting the base off then placing the figure on an old tyre before hitting it with a hammer. The casualty figures made in this way are commercially available so, presumably, quite acceptable in appearance.
As to chicken coops - I saw cages containing sacrificial animals in the 'Rome' series out on the streets by the temples, would they be easier to do (albeit a bit more fiddly perhaps).
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Wargames Atlantic I believe have dead animals in the pipe line. Not sure if it will include dogs. Maybe chuck them an email? Failing that, can you 3D print a sleeping dog?
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There do appear to be quite a variety of 28mm sleeping dogs available - perhaps an acceptable compromise?
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If you are still looking for a hen house, I saw this on Etsy. Only 1 left though.
£6.50 - Chickens & £20- Coop and fence
Local taxes included (where applicable), plus postage (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1282587351/chickens-coop-and-chickens-28mm-scale?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=chicken+coop+DnD&ref=sr_gallery-1-12&cns=1&sts=1&local_signal_search=1&content_source=981d2e5ef35f2bdfe88af59d2081f30cedce944a%253A1282587351&organic_search_click=1#) Chickens Coop and Chickens | 28mm Scale | Reconquer Designs RansonsTabletop (https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/RansonsTabletop?ref=shop-header-name&listing_id=1282587351&from_page=listing)
(https://i.etsystatic.com/29009633/r/il/4a5fb8/4114961615/il_794xN.4114961615_c5uv.jpg)
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What a excellent project! It is going to look incredible! Can I ask where did the trestle tables and market stalls come from?
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I‘ll join the chorus of praise. This looks like an excellent project with so much potential.
Also try Song of Shadows and Dust, you can get a very different feeling with this ruleset that will give you even more fun out of yout table.
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Found this and remembered that you were chasing dead dogs
https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-dogs-basing-bits-380537
(https://dl2.myminifactory.com/object-assets/66439be35a8151.46309095/images/720X720-sets.jpg)
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A further recommendation for Songs of Shadows and Dust. It really does give a flavour and feel of Ancient Urban Gang conflict. Had a few games of it and really fun to play as well, the activation system is push your luck which can be quite hilarious when pressure is on. It's played on a smallish table with 7/8 gang members aside with each gang aiming for a different mission and civilians around who can and do join in. A picture of the full table from a recent game. Really inspired by your layout with the bit more crowding and planter boxes!
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Ooh just caught up the temple looks great with the greenery, and I'm really liking all the little details like the aqueduct still under construction, that's a nice touch.
Cheers
Matt