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Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Frugalmax on 08 September 2024, 01:26:10 AM
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Hi all,
Long time lurker, recently joined, this is my first thread. Quite a while back I got a bag of dragon toys from the dollar store. They sat around for a long time, then I decided to make a video of trying to turn one into a gaming miniature. That video took a lot longer than I thought to make, then it sat for a long time unpublished. Well, I've finally gotten around to joining the forum, publishing the video, and sharing the dragon that started it all.
This dragon (and it's buddies form the same bag) appear to have been slightly bent or repurposed rejects that are also available for a heftier price under the "Safari Ltd." brand at stores in the U.S. like Michaels (or from Safari Ltd.'s websitehttps://www.safariltd.com/collections/dragons (https://www.safariltd.com/collections/dragons)). Seeing them so cheap at the dollar store makes me wonder if they're made by an independent party and Safari Ltd. and others pick them up and brand them for resale in the U.S, or if they are made specifically by/for Safari Ltd, and I got some that mysteriously appeared outside their supply chain or didn't make the quality control or something. Anyway, that's not the point, the point is Cheap Dragons!
Hope you enjoy!
(Note this is the first time I'm posting pictures, and using the attachments function, but the images don't appear in the preview, so I'm just going to hit post and hope for the best. I clearly don't know what I'm doing, but oh well.)
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Hey, the pictures worked!
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/D4AcZK3UPEE (https://youtu.be/D4AcZK3UPEE)
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Love your video, have subscribed and look forward to more.
The cheap dragon looks really good too.
Thank you for posting.
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That is a nice chunky dragon.
I ,ook forward to seeing more of your work.
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Well done, great repaint/repurpose, hope to see the rest and more projects sooner :D
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That dragon turned out rather nicely
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I wonder if the dragons are really overstocks/seconds or just pirated knockoffs relying on a low profile and Safari’s lack of ability to enforce its IP rights.
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That’s a suitable Warhammer dragon!
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I did the same a couple of years ago with a dragon I got for nigh to nothing (I believe it was €3,-?) at a local dollar/euro/pound store. I repositioned its wings by cutting and hotglueing them back at a more pleasing angle (they were perpendicularly straight up when I bought it). Painted it in an afternoon and I'm still really satisfied with the result :)
I went back the next day and bought all the other variants they had, so I still have 4 or 5 different ones in storage. (For when I need a differently coloured dragon ;) )
It's amazing how these cheap, bendy toys transform after a nice paintjob and the addition of a proper base. Yours looks excellent! 8)
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Turning toys into miniature has to be among the best wargaming experiences.
Both the examples in this thread are great and I absolutely love your video.
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Thank you all for checking it out and the comments and feedback!
@Spinal Tap - I appreciate it!
@Ultravillainsmurf - thanks! Yes, it's a big one, at least compared to the miniature dragons of yore. Though from what I've seen online, modern dragons from the likes of GW are pretty huge, which, while I think they are sometimes a bit over-sculpted, they are more in line with my mental picture of dragons- anyway, the cheapo is big enough!
@Tactalvanic - thank you! I'm working on some more videos (real life permitting, I'm going to try to post one per week for a bit and see how it goes)
@Little Odo - Thanks!
@Aethelflaeda was framed - Thanks ofr commenting! Yeah, it's a mysterious world of intrigue, manufacturing, shipping, and quality assurance. Who actually makes these dragons or and is there an exclusive owner of the rights to sell them? And if you have the capacity to make knock-offs of plastic toys, why pick a somewhat obscure line of dragons? And if they're not knock-offs but ones that failed inspection, what is a manufacturer allowed to do with thousands of pieces of plastic if they don't pass your customer's quality requirements? And is underselling your own customer for a quick turnaround shooting yourself in the foot in the long run or a way to please the boss and clear the factory floor? Someone could make a noir film out of this dragon's backstory... hmm... anyone know a movie producer?
@dickigranthum - Thank you! I have yet to use it in a game (truth be told we've sort of moved past warhammer into a more homebrewhammer anyway), but I'll try to update this thread with a photo when I do.
@Daeothar - Hey, your dragon looks great! I agree that the toys definitely do the job- they may not win any competitions, but they're good enough for fun gaming. Thanks!
@Luigi - Agreed! In addition to my pile of sprues and "official" miniatures I've got a small pile of old toys that await the appropriate conversion. Thank you very much!
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Really great concept. And it came out so well.
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I wonder if the dragons are really overstocks/seconds or just pirated knockoffs relying on a low profile and Safari’s lack of ability to enforce its IP rights.
Having dealt extensively with Chinese manufacturers in the past, I can confirm that one practice is the following: a company orders a run of a certain item, let's say 5000,000 pieces. The factory will oblige, but will probably make a run of 7000,000 (or more) with the customer's mould.
They will then ship the required 5M items as agreed and will sell the remaining 2M to another party, which will often sell it through sites like AliExpress, Temu or what have you. But older channels will sell them via knock-off and other off brands through dollar stores and the like.
And they can do this due to China's interesting IP laws. In that China does not recognize IP that is registered elsewhere and who's owner's headquarters is not located in the PRC.
GW had their production in China at one point too (maybe they still do, I don't know) and all of a sudden the knock off market was innundated with retooled plastic kits that were very clearly of GW origin...
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Yeah, one of the many reasons why one does not order on AliExpress, Temu and the likes and why the EU is putting fines/court stuff on them pretty much constantly for a year now.
Anyway, I really like those dragons on showcase here. These cheap toys are a great source for monsters. And I actually very much enjoy the slightly more classic look.
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Not a dragon but a cheap orc toy I got online.
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Having been the victim of Chinese companies knocking off my own jewelry work (sterling mjollnirs made in Thailand by Chinese owned factories from digitized photos of my jewelry designs have appeared at festivals I attend) I have had to send out cease and desists to more than a few resellers, who usually acquiesce. Chinese outright theft of IP is gotten to be pretty common, it’s not just overstocks. 3D printers and a photo of the work makes it too bloody easy. I now concentrate on one of a kinds just to avoid the rip offs.
When I discover a purchaser of one of the stolen designs, I offer to buy it from the wearer by giving them half off on my rather more expensive original. They always do.
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@sir_shvanselot - Thanks!
@Daeothar - Dang. I always find it interesting to get a peek behind the curtain of business operations. Though I guess we can't know for certain if that's the case with this dragon, it seems a likely explanation for knock-off looking stuff showing up in dollar/pound/euro stores (and I have no experience with Temu and the like, but seems likely!). Thanks for sharing!
@Battle Brush Sigur - Thank you!
@Brian Smaller - Wow! That guy is a beast! Nice work!
@Aethelflaeda was framed- I'm sorry to hear that. I can imagine especially for an independent producer it's both infuriating and disheartening when you see your work ripped off. I checked out https://michaelhaymanjewelry.com/ (https://michaelhaymanjewelry.com/), though, very nice work!
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My dollar stores barely stock toys anymore. And the locak Big Craft stores stopped carrying the dragons.
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@KGatch113 - That's too bad, though to be clear the toy dragons when gotten from the art supply stores or direct from Safari Ltd. aren't much cheaper than higher quality sculpts from Reaper or Wizkids or other miniatures manufacturers with lower-cost materials (I think Mantic has one too, maybe others as well), it's just if you can find them at a dollar store they are quite a deal.
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@KGatch113 - That's too bad, though to be clear the toy dragons when gotten from the art supply stores or direct from Safari Ltd. aren't much cheaper than higher quality sculpts from Reaper or Wizkids or other miniatures manufacturers with lower-cost materials (I think Mantic has one too, maybe others as well), it's just if you can find them at a dollar store they are quite a deal.
Just an aside, and there is a thread somewhere in this board, you can find cheap larger scale plastic figures you can use as giants, which is worth doing. Shame the same is not true for dragons!
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Yeah, you may be talking about the 54mm(?) sized Tehnolog orcs from Russia, etc.
My first dragon for my dungeon crawl was from...hero scape? Basically an older game, and I picked it up for around $8. Rescuing or repurposing stuff is always great.
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@KGatch113 and @Elbows- Thanks!
Yeah, I have seen pics of the Tehnolog 54mm orcs that look like they'd make great 28mm ogres or giant orcs (or well-equipped trolls depending upon your particular fantasy world), and there's a company out of Ukraine called that does Alliance and Dark Alliance miniatures, which are mostly 1:72 scale, but the larger monsters like trolls and minotaurs might scale up to 28mm creatures. I haven't gotten any of those myself, and it appears that they are of the more bendy/pvc-esque plastic, but the prices are certainly affordable.
I also love repurposing stuff! The Heroscape dragon you mention looks like a great candidate. I never got any of those minis; at the time I was a bit more of a purist in what I bought. Funny that back in the early 00's or so when Rackham made the decision to go to pre-painted plastics, I was very much against it- I loved their metal minis, and to me the prepainted plastics looked like cheap toys. But now I'm of the opinion that those miniatures would probably have been pretty easy to repaint and replace the bendy bits and stuff. That said I'm not sure how well their quality transitioned across the different materials, so maybe the detail was pretty poor. Oh well, neither here nor there. There's already more to paint than I have time for!
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New to the forum, but I've been collecting/gaming with fantasy miniatures since 1992. The topic of converting inexpensive toy dragon figures for use in my 2e AD&D RPG games, along with my 2e BattleSystem games, is a topic near and dear to my heart.
Here are some of my toy dragon conversions for my AD&D/BattleSystem games:
Safari Swamp Dragon (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilZ07VaZqOr-iPzA54Mc-88OJsJgN1-jA2CKl04HVCCpxiySyHD2MaC4vd7Z_KO4EdIUnHy2qjTN5_QmKr8kqxgIqNUHUrKu8dr-srK6WJqC3CV1ATANfI3zoNKlDe1dYFKw_w73_BYKQ/s1600/SafariSwampDragon1.jpg) (horrid factory paint!...) to a Copper Dragon (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNTLm2bvUq2X9Dv919KGQAh8GsKWm_ZxK4Us04AhxVbHeA35xqHbs7RQfFaUa73R7G2JM8kCAig0Lh8YzF669H-i3DeKG0a4QEkHRoX4wJeUFuq7UJ-Gs4Iitly2w1w4Ow3B_8f_hWjL8/s1600/DragonSt3.JPG).
Safari Freedom Dragon (https://www.spielzeug-guenstig.de/pic/Safari-Freedom-Dragon-100252.sl100252_2.jpg) (lame factory color scheme, IMO) to a Bronze Dragon (https://photos.fife.usercontent.google.com/pw/AP1GczPgBWtL9TR43qkP9bGL8SLy8Mt1f9U9SKcBS5pjgHKsaPI1TcNIZCuTcQ=w879-h912-s-no-gm?authuser=0).
Safari Golden Dragon (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMOeIIpLvZO9FQnGerXEVw2Kuo_jKAEciSUbhRii3EN4wbn8JPPgbrBj7x-CRwOHkLSv9QFYSGyDzXir5IaJCT8UIc7WMw8RnXnlJgVjOZf5rh1C1lNYNBrALUNtuz6hHUAyjUu89MptRxcfyCy9-QF=w1024-h768-s-no-gm?authuser=1) to a Brass Dragon (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgB_0WmauvZLo63Ovk7dZRv0is4gFTVM3dEYwB8bIrEyPwyUWQ_q0Oqi9M0NxGPCneIb2Xp_Ptcp0iXbUo4TnKw1h58oxHvOP8ZIVFlSX9kpChbuVN5qECJ77x6ovXx9Wr41Mi-VCTVJTg/s1600/Tudor+Wash+3-4.JPG).
I also converted two Halloween Skeletal Dragon decorations to two different Draco-Liches:
#1 Original (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgxK_6VjDAuIuPvtOZG4Zn8a5qe-URJJ1m__GiGAo3iVjEUred-N0pZ3yb2MkyiMV3iR4GGHmpYlTYyoopQd-eRUh08UL19Gyp9jBvnIWY4SUzxpWe1cMmia-n5aQkAGQzJEqFnPjoaBdUSKC3Q5EhPqC4f0pSEr71CngwqPbKbyqxErRt0lItQAA_tUPI/s2166/20230305_203335.jpg), and the finished conversion (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj0B_O53dcTC67gnFMwE-CTcdjcp7WLGdsdQ_GYHQMF95zC49rgOiuzu3RIaFVNJWOjnxCzDlpZuQmQWoLhhFOwgutTFq7cw1_vs0VZNj5hSF4pi8Ro5ngnMRNCIneAZzXuQDtwKYANs7rxOuk9qzqQ9_9o_tYnH1c8B7ek9ddwTaCeIzsWz-4w-gXFvv4/s2703/20230531_221155.jpg);
#2 original (https://photos.app.goo.gl/m7zdvfMWAfqv7f9R6), and here it is finished (https://photos.app.goo.gl/useRWXy3nwag6eRF6).
Just for fun, here is a Safari Green Dragon (https://photos.app.goo.gl/UaGfCZ4VPPbSXkKRA), which came perfect (IMO) from the factory. He has some uninvited guests (https://photos.app.goo.gl/PEfMzjaGTNSfCfDcA) to his cavern lair...
My interest in converting such toy dragon figures for use in my FRPG and 2e BS games, is that these toys typically sell for <$25 each, whereas a legitimate miniature company dragon figure will typically sell for >$35! I look at the toy dragon sculpts, to see if I can re-paint them to suit my needs. Quite often, their sculpts are superb...
I freely warn you that I am an Army Painter: block colors, The Dip Technique (brushed on, not dunked) using Minwax dark brown colors (not black), followed by matte clear coats. I paint for my tabletop, not competitions. You have been warned... >:D Cheers!
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@SgtSlag- Nice dragons!
I think I probably started around the same time- we had been making model planes, which lead to making dioramas, which led to picking up some fantasy miniatures, which led to Warhammer, and then it was all over.
The dragons in the video (first post of this thread) appear to be Safari dragons as well, but they were in a dollar store bag at about $2.50 each- the dollar store toy shelf occasionally yields treasure!
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To be honest, I was shocked by your video -- I've never seen full-sized Safari (or other quality toy dragon maker) models in the Dollar Stores. That is too goof of a deal to pass up! Cheers!
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I'm loving me some Frugalmax the dragon videos... :-*
The episode where the head popped off the figure had me crying laughing... lol
Keep it up, I'm enjoying them!!
Mike Demana
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@SgtSlag- thanks!
@mikedemana- Glad you like them, thanks! Been a bit busy lately but I hopefully will have another video done in the next week or so (so far regularity has not been our strong suit, but one can't be too demanding with dragons, I guess).
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I love the idea of using toy dragons, and I really enjoyed the video, haha. Love the dragon jokes for sure, super good! Kinda like a miniature-themed flash back to my childhood Mr. Dressup watching days... Good stuff!
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Thanks, Neldoreth! Glad you enjoy the videos! More to come (I hope... my worker trolls seem to be shirking their duties... I must regulate this situation)!