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Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Daeothar on October 10, 2024, 06:57:23 PM

Title: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Sidestepping to some astronauts
Post by: Daeothar on October 10, 2024, 06:57:23 PM
So, after much  waiting and searching, I've finally found an old world source for Black Site's game Lunar.

I've been wanting to get my hands on this game for quite some time now. Ever since I read Alan Smale's excellent 'Hot Moon - Apollo Rising, book 1'. And then of course there were several excellent threads here on the LAF on the subject of combat in space, in a what-if scenario. ANd of course there's 'For all mankind' (and even Space Force, if you like your scifi with a big wink :D ).

And because the game still has to make its way over here from the UK (and throught customs ::) ), I've taken it upon myself to acquire some suitable transport for the American portion of the set; an Apollo Lander Module (LEM) in 1/48.

Zemj in this thread over here (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=146391.0) had the exact same idea and got one too. But mine is considerably older (first tooling 1968, my box is from 1969), and it is a different kit altogether.

It's an easy to build one, which is perfect for wargaming purposes, as this usually means it's sturdier. But also, to my big surprise, there's actual 'gold' foil for the golden parts!  8)  The decals are a bit yellowed, but that'll be fine.

Anyway; this post is a bit of a placeholder till my copy of the game and its miniatures arrives. But I just didn't want to derail Oldgamer's thread any more than we've already done ;)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 10, 2024, 07:51:06 PM
Looking forward to it  :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 11, 2024, 10:40:01 AM
that illustration makes the module look bigger than I thought. does it come with a figure? how tall is he?
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Daeothar on October 11, 2024, 11:08:34 AM
The model comes with 2 astronauts, and the instructions show the possibility to place one of them inside the module (there's clear plastic provided for the observation windows), but they're not very detailed and would probably look rather poor next to the Lunar miniatures.

Especially the hands leave much to be desired, but then again; this is a kit from the late sixties. Sizewise, they do look to be about on par for 28mm miniatures though.

I will measure the figures when I get home tonight, and I'll see if I can find a height for the LEM in the descriptions.

Can't wait to get to work on it, to be honest :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 11, 2024, 11:26:35 AM
use them for memorial statues
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Daeothar on October 11, 2024, 11:27:21 AM
Good call  :D
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Oldgamer on October 11, 2024, 12:43:08 PM
I am looking forward to seeing the completed module, l am busy with a set of Lunar Freelancers and a 3d printed Lunar Buggy from eBay.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 11, 2024, 02:01:38 PM
I'm surprised there isn't a 3D print of a lunar or martian module like For All Mankind...
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Michi on October 11, 2024, 02:27:50 PM
mine is considerably older (first tooling 1968, my box is from 1969)

This should make us thinking that measurements were probably taken from the real thing before it was actually hauled to space (or taken to some subterranean movie stage in Nevada).  :D
Having aquired that gem from the actual period adds so much to your project!  :o
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Cypher226 on October 11, 2024, 03:36:23 PM
I'm surprised there isn't a 3D print of a lunar or martian module like For All Mankind...

There's a few moon landing modules on Cults3D, and I think Corvus Games has some files for structures that could work in a pinch
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 11, 2024, 03:45:16 PM
There's a few moon landing modules on Cults3D, and I think Corvus Games has some files for structures that could work in a pinch

the vaguely pyramidal one from the show?
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Daeothar on October 11, 2024, 04:16:42 PM
Having aquired that gem from the actual period adds so much to your project!  :o

Hadn't thought of it like that, but now that you mention it, it's absolutely appropriate and I'll try to give it the reverence it deserves...  :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Michi on October 11, 2024, 04:26:36 PM
Hadn't thought of it like that, but now that you mention it, it's absolutely appropriate and I'll try to give it the reverence it deserves...  :)

Keep the box and cut a foam to fit in. Then cut the shape of your Astronauts for uniquely proper storage!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Daeothar on October 11, 2024, 09:43:47 PM
Yeah, maybe I'm not that reverent after all  :D

I took the time to take a picture of the included astronauts, and they're a bit on the tall side, at around 38mm. Anyway; even with the rather bulky space suits, they're still about 35mm foot to eye.

Aren't you a bit tall to be an astronaut?  ;D

Still; with 32mm miniatures, based and all, the whole lander will not look out of proportion at all I gather :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 12, 2024, 10:10:50 AM
Really looking forward to seeing your lander completed.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: zemjw on October 12, 2024, 07:48:17 PM
It's an easy to build one, which is perfect for wargaming purposes, as this usually means it's sturdier. But also, to my big surprise, there's actual 'gold' foil for the golden parts!  8)  The decals are a bit yellowed, but that'll be fine.

The wrinkles in the gold bit are moulded on the new(ish) kit. Does yours have that, or are you expected to create the texture with the gold leaf (in which case, rather you than me :D)

Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 12, 2024, 09:18:51 PM
Quote
I've been wanting to get my hands on this game for quite some time now. Ever since I read Alan Smale's excellent 'Hot Moon - Apollo Rising, book 1'.

Downloaded this onto my Kindle and thoroughly enjoying it. So much so, that I've pre-ordered book 2. It looks like it could very nicely, form the background to many scenarios.

Thanks for the tip off.   :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Daeothar on October 12, 2024, 10:40:44 PM
Glad you like it  :)

The writer actually works at NASA and really knows his stuff; scifi doesn't get harder than this.

Can't wait for book 2 to drop this November!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: beefcake on October 13, 2024, 12:53:33 AM
Cool. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar
Post by: Daeothar on October 13, 2024, 09:21:34 PM
And we have lift off!

An accurate kit this is not, but it's sturdy, it's simple and it's from the actual era, so I'm not complaining.

I caught myself checking the internet for pictures of the LEM docking hatch, after finding it's just a circular indentation on the model; I'm going to keep it simple without a lot of reference checking, or I'll find myself rebuilding probably the entire thing from poystyrene and 'ain't nobody got time for that!'

So for speed's sake, I'm going to do this (almost lol ) straight and by the book. Although I'm still on the fence about possibly recreating the landing struts in metal because I'm not confindent about the loadbearing capacity of the plastic ones in the kit, especially in the long run.

We'll see.

For now, I've simply blacked out the interior, did not place the one astronaut in there and glued in the provided acetate sheet, cut to shape and size for the two windows and glued the two halves of the ascend stage together.

Also, I've glued the descend portion together, plus two thruster housings. Those will require a lot of filing and sanding. Speaking of which; the large sections do require this too, including some filling, but that's easy. By the way; the bottom half actually does not, because it'll be covered in foil.

The instructions say that the foil should be glued down with 'cement', but I'm fairly certain that polystyrene cement will not intereact (favourably) with foil like this. Any idea what type of glue would be best?
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: carlos marighela on October 13, 2024, 10:51:53 PM
Superglue for foil of any description.

That's an amazing bit of kit you have there. I've used 1/48 figures with 28mm. depending on any taper in the leg it's usually possible to remove a millimeter or two from their legs using a balde and then glue back together. Most 28mm figures would be stumpy buggers in real life.

I've always thought the LUAZ airborne jeeps look suitably space age. How about a semi-fictional electric version for the cosmonauts ride?

https://www.empressminiatures.com/luaz-967-airborne--vehicle-3104-p.asp
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Cat on October 13, 2024, 11:07:24 PM
Super glue or E6000 should do the trick.
 
Hmm, the LUAZ does look the part, maybe puttying up the inner side of the tyres for a more balloony look.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 14, 2024, 06:50:19 PM
Hmm, the LUAZ does look the part, maybe puttying up the inner side of the tyres for a more balloony look.
More "historical" would be the open format.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/LunokhodWheels.jpg/964px-LunokhodWheels.jpg)
Though how you model that leave as an exercise for the reader.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Daeothar on October 14, 2024, 09:20:50 PM
A small step for man, and also for mankind.

This is still the boring stuff; sanding, filling, sanding and filling again, until the result is as smooth as James Webb's mirror.

I also cleaned up a lot of the remaining smaller bits, but I'll do the legs in one go once I get to them; a lot of those needs to be covered in foil, so I won't be sanding myself crosseyed on them when I don't have to ;)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 15, 2024, 07:03:27 AM
Coming along nicely. I think I may need one of those!  ;)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Daeothar on October 15, 2024, 06:16:40 PM
Look what the C.A.T. dragged in!  :D

I'll do a proper size comparisson between the Revell and Black Site astronauts, this evening, but a preliminary side by side already reveals quite a difference...
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Daeothar on October 15, 2024, 08:55:56 PM
Quite a height difference, but as I stated earlier; when properly based, the difference is largely gone. So I'm considering the lander's scale to be a pretty good match after all  :)

The only progress this evening is a layer of primer on the ascend stage. It's still drying in the garage, so no pics yet, but there's probably going to be another round of filling and sanding before I'm satisfied... ::)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander started
Post by: Daeothar on October 19, 2024, 08:17:16 PM
So, as I expected, I just couldn't leave well enough alone, now could I?

Building a period model kit is one thing, but accuracy has nothing to do with it and I had been fully prepared to overlook certain inaccuracies, as they can be expected from a 55 year old kit. But when I started looking up reference pictures for the paintjob, I slipped and fell down the rabbit hole.

All the way down...

There were so many glaring errors I just could not look away anymore. I'm not going for a display quality replica here; it remains first and foremost a gaming piece, but some things just had to be addressed.

Such as the structural strut to the right of the door on the ascend module; in the kit this was represented by a completely filled in shelf. So I cut it off, and replaced it with a piece of plastic rod. BUt I then also had to rebuild part of the hull, as the removal of the cast triangle left large holes.

Similarly; there was no window on the top right of the hull, so I cut this and added some acetate 'glass'. 3 of the 5 antennas are missing from the kit, so I'll be scratchbuilding those myself too.

And then there was the egress door itself, which was this very weird looking lump inside the door cavity. So I cut this out and replaced it with a more accurate version made with plasticard.

The back was just one plain square, while the original appears to be a number of panels, almost crudely welded together. So I added plasticard panels to it, after sanding and scraping all of the primer away first...

All of the above would not have been a chore at all, had I started on these flaws before assembly. But as I had foolheardedly assembled, filled, sanded and primed the larger hull pieces under the misguided assumption that I would be able to accept the innacuracies, I had to do this with a basically paint ready model ::)

Also, I found out that the hull was not white as I had somehow always believed it to be, but an amalgam of grey/green, black, aluminium and copper panels. And the descend stage is not completely covered in gold foil at all. Firstly, it's more of a copper, and it's interspersed with loads of black and aluminium panels as well.

So now I'm looking for copper foil too, so if anyone knows where I can get my hands on some? lol

Finally, it appears that the kit designers had either no clue about the plume deflectors, or they simply didn't want to bother with them. I certainly didn't even know about them, but they're a visible part of the original descend module. And since the two modules can be connected and separated in the kit through two locking pins (to be replaced by magnets of course; welcome to the 21st century, boomers), they absolutely need to be there when the descend module is alone on the table. So now I'll have to scratchbuild them. Easy enough, but time consuming.

I'm using this guy's building blog of a scratchbuilt 1:24 scale model, which is glorious, and it's become my ultimate guide for this build of mine. Until my Haynes Apollo Owner's Manual arrives, that is...   ;D
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 19, 2024, 09:13:09 PM
Wow! This is going to be good, tremendous eye for detail!  :-*
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Cat on October 19, 2024, 09:42:36 PM
Oh no he says, paper is as much work as styrene he says...
 
Enjoy the modelling rabbit hole, I've fallen into those too at times!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: AKULA on October 20, 2024, 08:43:33 AM
an excellent project - keep going  :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 20, 2024, 08:48:47 AM
Cool.

I wonder if more recent models are as inaccurate.

Are there any replica/demo/spare landers in the UK?

I am sure I have seen one, not sure when or where (Science Museum or National Space Museum?).
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 20, 2024, 08:53:58 AM
For the real thing apparently no, though I am possibly old enough for there having being one on tour.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Lunar_modules_produced (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Lunar_modules_produced)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Rick on October 20, 2024, 01:01:41 PM
Y'know, I think we might actually have one on display in the UK. Have you looked at the National Space Centre website? I haven't been there in years and I was more interested in the shuttle exhibits at the time but I think there was one there.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Daeothar on October 21, 2024, 12:46:11 PM
I'm in the Netherlands though, so I'm stuck using pictures for the time being...

Took her outside to prime this morning.

She's quite a bit larger than the box suggests though; I'll probably need another can or two...
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: HerbertTarkel on October 21, 2024, 01:17:15 PM
🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Michi on October 21, 2024, 01:33:56 PM
That thing has a face! And an ugly on that is!!! :o
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: zemjw on October 21, 2024, 01:43:21 PM
I think you may need a bit more gold leaf as well ;D
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 21, 2024, 02:01:41 PM
 lol
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Rick on October 21, 2024, 05:07:37 PM
Apologies, Daeothar - got my wires crossed on that one.
However, there are 2 full sized replicas of the Apollo lander on display in Europe - 1 is outside an observatory in Prague and the other is inside the Teknik Museum at Speyer, Germany. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 21, 2024, 05:26:31 PM
 lol   lol   lol
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Gunbird on October 21, 2024, 07:23:17 PM
It really screams out to have it painted as a skull......

Sorry, intrusive thought just got free  lol
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Daeothar on October 22, 2024, 05:47:17 PM
In a more carefree world, I'd paint it as Skeletor's ride, but I'm too occupied with (perceived) realism to go that route now  :D

And this was delivered today, so now the nerding out can really begin  lol
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Daeothar on October 23, 2024, 09:22:28 AM
The book is fantastic; it details all aspects of the development, testing, precursors (Mercury, Gemini etc), the booster rockets, the command module, the descend stage and the ascend stage. Not as many pictures for reference as I'd like, but a really compelling read nonetheless.

Two evenings ago, I started on the struts holding the plume deflectors. For those wondering what I'm on about, witht hese plume deflectors; they're the 1/4 cilinder shapes attached with a framework to the descent stage, directly under the RCS thrusters. They look to me to be almost an afterthought, when they realized that the placement of the thrusters to manouver the LEM would mean they'd fire directly onto the top surface of the descent stage. So a last minute(?) solution was added. As lightweight as possible of course.

And that's how they were not included in this kit; this was designed in 1968, based on some earlier design drawings, and not on images of the actual thing. Which is why the egress door looks so weird and the deflectors are just missing altogether.

But I want this bird to be either complete on the surface, or just the descent stage. The kit was designed for the two parts to separate already, so this was always my plan. It was only after tons of reference material that I realized that the deflectors would be required. They will form a significant part of the silhouette when the ascend module is not there.

Anyway; I started measuring out and cutting the required parts in styrene, welding them together. But as I've experienced before; the plastic available around here is a type of ABS that does not quite melt in the same way as 'proper' polystyrene does. So the welds remained weak points in the construction and even picking one up from the cutting mat (where a tad of glue had cemented one strut to the surface) broke the bond.

And since these things will be standing proud of the top of the descend stage quite a bit, and thus will be rather vulnerable, I decided I would be needing a more robust solution.

So I redid the whole construction with brass rod for the top parts and paperclips for the lower construction. This was not only loads quicker than the styrene option, it is also solid as heck. I will be tying them together with very thin copper wire and then superglueing the knots. Then I'll cover the unsightly rounded bends with some styrene bits to simulate the nut and bolt assembly.

Mind: in the pictures they're just mocked up and not glued in, so their final positions will be a lot better ;)

Furthermore; the joints will be all but covered by the deflectors themselves. I'll be sourcing the correct material for that, but for now I'm contemplating aluminum sheet, plastic tubing or just the right shape of jet fighter fuel tank, as the shapes are ever so slightly conical too.

It may not seem like much progress, but this was one of the stages I was actually a bit apprehensive about, considering it needs to be both (reasonnably) accurate and sturdy enough to survive the tabletop. So switching to metal made the path that much clearer and I can now steam ahead again :)

Oh, and I've also started cleaning up the astro- and cosmonauts I got, in preparation for their upcoming painting.

I also bought some grey tile grout and Noch grey railroad ballast to start experimenting with mixing up the ground cover. I will preferably not paint it; I like to use  materials as they are for added realism. I still need to find some sand and gravel in the right grey tone and also some pigment powder to tie everything together.

However; this weekend will be filled with Halloween shenanigans, so I don't expect to make progress then. But we're chugging along... :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 23, 2024, 10:10:51 AM
what is that intriguing bits holder thingy?
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander progress
Post by: Daeothar on October 23, 2024, 10:23:45 AM
Funny you should mention that.

I bought one for myself and my father early last year after their succesfully Kickstarter, but it's the first time I've used it in anger since then.

Basically it's a metal plate with four parallel clips that can swivel on magnetic ball mounts. So you can place the clips anywhere on the surface, at any angle. perfect for soldering jobs, or to hold two bits to glue them together, like here.

It's called the Omnifixo, and you can find them here (https://omnifixo.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoqQAKwFUOSFKL7wwBnYHGk_yfgj9y7UV2MzbK2mnTbPGZ80zlNY)

Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, plume deflector struts
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 23, 2024, 10:28:31 AM
thank you

EDIT - oooo pricey
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, plume deflector struts
Post by: Daeothar on October 23, 2024, 10:37:34 AM
You're not wrong there ::)

They were around the €40,- mark when I bought them. Still not cheap, but they've gone way up since last year. Maybe not worth it at that price point actually...
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, plume deflector struts
Post by: mikedemana on October 23, 2024, 08:17:24 PM
It's looking great! And here I was stressing out about scratch-building legs for a tripod droid...  lol

I like how you made the decision to scrap one material that clearly wasn't working, and continue on with another. That's the type of thing that makes me shove something gently to the side of the painting desk to be lost to the dustbin of history...!  lol

Mike Demana
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, plume deflector struts
Post by: Daeothar on October 25, 2024, 09:10:06 AM
I'm always concerned with durability during play. the last thing I want is for some terrain element that cost a disproportionally long time to craft to be accidentally knocked off during play. And I also do not want my opponents to feel like Hyacint Bucket's nervous neighbour, being handed her tea in the good china ::)

Anyway, I've begun on the detailing of the ascend stage, because down here in the rabbit hole, this needs to be done with reckless abandon :D

I began lightly with assorted small dome shapes on the front of the hull by adding Tichy Train Group large rivets. Of course I had to first scrape off yet more of the primer for the glue to bond. I'm really regretting jumping the gun on that stage by now...

Then I added two strips to the top of the hatch cavity, and an extra plate on top of the rounded section just above the crew compartment. These were all done with 0.25mm plasticard.

In the same vein, I added a plate to the outside of the hatch cavity, because in all pictures, the hatch is covered in copper foil, but on the port side, a sheet (metal) is clearly seen extending over the foil, but the bottom part is not attached in any way. So I added some 0.25mm polystyrene sheet (black this time) to do the same.

A handle is also added to the starboard side of the hatch cavity, made from a short length of paperclip, which was inserted into two drilled holes.

The small window I cut in the top port hull was covered from the inside with some acetate sheet, but was way too deep. So I filled it with some UV resin and it now sits nice and flush with the hull.

Finally, I added an antenna (or is it a rail handle?) to the port side of the hull, attached with the correct amount of brackets (as if I'd do it any other way ::) ). This is made from ABS/polystyrene rod. I had to superglue the rail to the supports, because as mentioned before, this plastic melts when glued, but does not weld like pure polystyrene like that from Evergreen for instance. So the supports melded into the hull, but not into the railing made from the same material  ???

Anyway; a lot of very visible work was achieved yesterday, and it's shaping up nicely.

A final bit of work was done on the descend stage by covering the holes in the hull from the inside with some plasticard and then adding two magnets in there. The ascend stage will receive two as well, so the two can attach and separate in a more modern way :D
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, details, details, details
Post by: Rick on October 25, 2024, 03:06:40 PM
Wow, just wow - your attention to detail is awe-inspiring Daeothar.
The only thing that concerns me is that I don't really know the Lunar game background so I don't really know whether an exact copy of a lunar lander would be more appropriate than, say, a modified one similar to the prop lander from 'Moon zero-two'? Presumably Lunar is set in a slightly alternative timeline where Moon missions continued and expanded?
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, details, details, details
Post by: Daeothar on October 25, 2024, 03:23:44 PM
Thanks Rick  :)

I am known to go a bit overboard when it comes to detail. So what I'm doing here, I do for me (because I can't help myself  ;D ), as the game makes no such distinction.

In fact, as it stands today, landers are not even playable; they're just scenery at this point.  lol

The game focusses on space race era technology, like in the first season of For All Mankind. But nothing prevents one from playing in a scifi setting, the present or the future, with more advanced or scifi tech.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, details, details, details
Post by: Cat on October 25, 2024, 05:11:39 PM
I don't really know the Lunar game background so I don't really know whether an exact copy of a lunar lander would be more appropriate than, say, a modified one similar to the prop lander from 'Moon zero-two'?

Any image you want to run with will work fine.  I'm going with a retro SF look of the later 60s as imagined c.1963 — Mercury Project style space suits, and working on a Gemini rocket style lander.
 
The only crunchy bit of the rules as written is low-conflict armament.  No one wants to start WW3 on Earth, this is not WH1.96K.  That too could be changed to taste of course, but would require rules changes.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, details, details, details
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 26, 2024, 01:24:37 PM
Lovely detail work.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, details, details, details
Post by: mikedemana on October 26, 2024, 05:05:49 PM
Looking great! Your attention to detail is a help on this project, of course. Can't wait to see it finished...!

Mike Demana
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, details, details, details
Post by: Daeothar on October 27, 2024, 08:16:09 PM
So yeah, with all the halloween shenanigans going on, which may have involved me in a scarecrow suit masquerading as a doll next to the bowl of candy, patiently waiting to jumpscare the neighbourhood kids,  :D  I had already predicted there would be little progress this weekend.

But lo and behold; I was able to get an hour or so in, and decided to finish the magnetizing job. I had already glued in the two magnets on the descend stage, but they were sitting ever so slightly proud of the surface. Courtesy of the plastic thickness not being quite uniform across the entire area ::)

So I solved that with some very thin plasticard, which made them perfectly flush, as intended.

And because that went really quickly, I also tackled the ascend stage. Holes were drilled in the right location, they were drilled out to the correct diameter, then I applied superglue and then the magnets, with the help of a flat tool, with which I could insert the magnets and then slide off the tool, making them perfectly flush with the surface as well.

This worked like a dream. So after waiting for the glue to set, I of course tried to connect the two stages. Which failed because I had glued in the last two magnets the wrong way!  >:(

Now I'm going to have to remove them somehow, preferably without damaging the module (too much), all the while feeling like an proper dunce... ::)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, failure to connect
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 27, 2024, 08:24:14 PM
Ouch!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, failure to connect
Post by: Cat on October 27, 2024, 09:20:18 PM
Ouch indeed!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, failure to connect
Post by: carlos marighela on October 27, 2024, 09:53:22 PM
Think of them as anti-gravity devices.

Having done something quite similar, you have my commiserations.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, failure to connect
Post by: Rick on October 27, 2024, 09:56:06 PM
I think we've all been there, Daeothar. Magnets are tricky beasts with a mind of their own!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, failure to connect
Post by: Daeothar on October 30, 2024, 08:47:08 AM
Thanks for the sympathies guys.

In the end, the damage was not too extensive. I drilled a small hole directly next to the magnets and used that to pry them loose with a small screwdriver (I tried it with an X-acto blade first, with predictable results ::) ).

I then cleaned off the superglue from the magnets with a broken off X-acto blade I had on hand anyway and proceed a bit differently this time. I let the magnets align themselves on the ones on the descend stage and then press fitted them in the old holes.

This was supposed to be a test fit, but they went in so snug, I decided to leave them in. And instead of glueing them again, I simply covered them with very thin plasticard which I then sanded smooth with the surrounding plastic.

And that will hold them secure enough, as all the force exerted on them will be pull, and the plasticard will keep them neatly in place.

Problem solved, and the two stages connect perfectly now :)

Then I went to town on the detailing and embellishing the hull of the ascend stage. With good quality reference pictures, you'll find that this thing is all but smooth. There are undulating panels, unexpected rivets and other protrusions all over the hull.

So I did a virtual walkaround, adding small bits of plastic wherever they were required. And I must say, they really add visual interest to an otherwise pretty bland hull.

As stated earlier; there are some glaring mistakes in the geometry and shape of the hull, but nearing the bottom of the rabbithole, I've discovered that none of the landers 11 to 20 were identical. They all had slight differences between them and the last ones up there (15, 16 and 17) were extensively modified compared to the earliers ones (14 and below). These are called the extended versions. they had more fuel and supplies for a more extended stay, and they had more scientific instruments and of course the 15+ landers all carried a rover.

So as this is a lander in a what-if scenario (maybe something along the lines of an Apollo 32 mission?), there would be slight alterations to its hull when compared to Apollo 11 of course. Meaning I can live with the inaccuracies ;)

One thing I came across is the scientific instruments stored in the descend stage. Those were in compartments that could be opened up to the outside (flipped down) once landed. This meant that the mylar foil needed to be pulled off the hull to gain access, which explains the really messy state of the descend stages of 15 to 17 in the pictures.

So now I also need to add one of those open compartments. Because I'm me :D

Luckily, I've found a modeler who did exactly that, with a Monogram kit. I'll be copying his efforts, with the added challenge of magnetizing the whole compartment, so I can also put a pristine lander on the table when I so desire. I've added a picture of his work down there, so that's not mine! (yet ;) )
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: carlos marighela on October 30, 2024, 09:03:05 AM
I see the purchase of several bars of good quality chocolate will be in order to tackle the mylar foil.

The sacrifices people must make for their art. :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Daeothar on October 30, 2024, 09:07:21 AM
Yeah; it's a hard life...  :D

I was told that the foil around Rolo chocolates is exactly the right shade of reddish gold, so obviously I'll take one for the team and check this out...
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: carlos marighela on October 30, 2024, 09:12:08 AM
Don't have a packet to hand but from memory I reckon that's very likely correct. Ferrero Rocher is a more goldy, blingy, gold.

I once attended a wedding in the long distant past where one of the young ladies present was attired in a dress best described as jumbo sized Crunchie wrapper. :D
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 30, 2024, 01:17:42 PM
so where was the rover stored then? always wondered. I assume it was flat pack.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Daeothar on October 30, 2024, 01:42:56 PM
so where was the rover stored then? always wondered. I assume it was flat pack.

They were stored in one of the 4 quads. And quads were the flat areas between the landing struts on the descend stage. Apollo 11 'only' had some scientific equipment stored in one pallet (called a MESA) located on quad 3, but the later J-missions had all 4 quads packed with equipment and of course the rover.

It completely folded in on itself, with the wheels folding up and in like a transformer. Part of the drive and the batteries were stored on another pallet. All of these MESA's and the rover were initially covered in mylar foil (a thermal layer) , which was fastened with velcro. It would be removed by the astronauts when landed to gain access to the equipment.

Here's an original diagram of the descend stage showing the quads and a picture of the rover in its stored position before application of the mylar :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: anevilgiraffe on October 30, 2024, 01:45:52 PM
nice... just assumed that was all engine  lol
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: mikedemana on October 30, 2024, 04:26:05 PM
If you are ever in Ohio, you really should check out the Neil Armstrong Air & Space  Museum! I was just there last week and I'm sure you'd geek out like I did...  lol
https://www.armstrongmuseum.org/

(https://lirp.cdn-website.com/0c952da8/dms3rep/multi/opt/Early+Gallery+005-1920w.jpg)

Mike Demana
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 30, 2024, 08:57:57 PM
Excellent
Yeah; it's a hard life...  :D

I was told that the foil around Rolo chocolates is exactly the right shade of reddish gold, so obviously I'll take one for the team and check this out...
Cool!
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: zemjw on October 31, 2024, 09:07:31 AM
I've been wanting to get my hands on this game for quite some time now. Ever since I read Alan Smale's excellent 'Hot Moon - Apollo Rising, book 1'.

The book is either free or very cheap on Amazon Audible at the moment - Amazon UK link (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09ZLR35FV).

I went to spend my Audible credit on it last night, and it offered to add it to my library free of charge. I guess that means it will disappear if/when I cancel my membership, but I'm okay with that.

It's 20 hours of listening :o, which should keep me occupied for a while.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Daeothar on October 31, 2024, 09:40:12 AM
Trust me; it's worth it :)

I'm eagerly awaiting book 2, which will become available on November 12...
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on November 08, 2024, 08:36:13 AM
Trust me; it's worth it :)

I'm eagerly awaiting book 2, which will become available on November 12...

Me too. Pre-order in already on the Kindle.

Fascinating info on the lander too, thanks.
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Daeothar on November 09, 2024, 09:49:31 AM
Regrettably, real life has virtually stopped progress at the moment, but I just came across this, and I just had to share.

Way too advanced tech for this project, but really cool nonetheless:

https://youtu.be/LEpm1_j1dYM?si=9QE-LYZVSNsBfUaG (https://youtu.be/LEpm1_j1dYM?si=9QE-LYZVSNsBfUaG)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Apollo Lander, back to detailing
Post by: Daeothar on November 11, 2024, 08:51:35 AM
Real life has a way of interfering, just when you're in the zone, and of course this is what happened here. A step in the process that will take a bit more thought, experimentation and creativity results in a bit of a hang-up, then all kinds of things happen, such as birthdays, a (very) busy spell at work, other passtimes that require, well, time, and before you know it, you're 2 weeks further with no progress to show for it and a dwindling mojo.

So to combat this slow spell, I've decided to sidestep away from the lander for a bit and paint up the first faction, of two planned, to fight over the moon. And since I'm still knee deep in watching For All Mankind, I just had to go with the Americans.

Yesterday afternoon, with a couple of hours to spend, I took out the minis from the 2-player starter box and the Attack on Zvezda expansion and set to work. The starter set has 3 minis for the Americans and Russians each, and the Zvezda box adds two extra minis for each faction.

Interestingly, the starter box has minis cast in resin, while the expansion has 3D printed ones, and there is a definite difference in detail. The cast minis are much more crisp and have better, more defined and fine details. This will probably be less pronounced once they're painted uniformly, but it's very noticeable at this stage.

On the flip side; there was some mould slip on at least one of the starter minis, and quite a bit of cleanup. Not as bad as from some other brands, but it still kept me off the streets for at least an hour or so. There were only a few tiny bubbles to be found too, on the bottom of one backpack, which was easily repairable and would have been all but invisible on the table had I left that as is.

The printed minis are still of good quality, and I will happily field them. In fact, if I had been able to get the rules and tokens separately, I would gladly have bought the STL's and have printed them myself; they're perfectly serviceable.

As an aside; I have not encountered any blemishes, mouldlines, bubbles or cracks on the visors as some others have reported; they're all perfectly spherical and smooth in my batch.

So after cleaning them up, I started assembly. I only had to pin one part (a leg); the rest had moulded on/in nubs and holes, although those did require cleaning to properly fit, and one arm still left such a gap that I will need to go back in with some ProCreate to fill it up before painting.

I then glued them onto their bases and primed them in grey. No texture on the bases yet; I plan on doing those with a yet to be mixed (and partially sourced) ground cover, which will not be painted, but will have to be a perfect blend of grey sand, pebbles, grout and pigment powder. So that will be the very last step of the process.

Another busy week ahead, but I do hope to get some paints on these lads regardless :)
Title: Re: Daeothar (finally) goes Lunar - Sidestepping to some astronauts
Post by: mikedemana on November 11, 2024, 06:23:58 PM
Off to a great start on those guys. Looking forward to seeing them painted...

Mike Demana