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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Snowdogs on October 20, 2024, 01:37:06 PM

Title: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 20, 2024, 01:37:06 PM
Hi,
I have just ordered some of the eM4 Silent Death ships. I'm considering a small-scale fighter game with the occasional larger armed merchant ship, with pirates attacking merchants who have mercenary fighter escorts. However, I'm stuck on the rules I should be using. Quick, not too complicated, more space opera than realistic and easy to teach and play.
Does anyone have any suggestions, please?
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 20, 2024, 02:11:46 PM
Starfighters from Wiley Games would be perfect for this. It's got everything you mention.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Malamute on October 20, 2024, 02:23:48 PM
Starfighters from Wiley Games would be perfect for this. It's got everything you mention.

Seconded, easy to learn and great fun to play
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Rick on October 20, 2024, 02:38:28 PM
I have to admit I'm still enjoying the older 'Silent Death the next Millennium' rules - I played the first edition and this one; they still set a high bar that many rules just don't clear. I would rate them as fairly simple to learn (and teach) with a lot of tactical thinking and additional rules (and add-ons) providing something for everyone. I still consider them to be THE space fighter rules to beat.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Dice Roller on October 20, 2024, 03:41:24 PM
I always had good fun with the Tacship rules.
Best of all, they are free:
https://www.sfsfw.org/a/03/tacship.php
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 20, 2024, 03:53:53 PM
Starfighters from Wiley Games would be perfect for this. It's got everything you mention.

Is this available in the UK ? I can only find it direct from the states.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 20, 2024, 03:56:45 PM
I have to admit I'm still enjoying the older 'Silent Death the next Millennium' rules - I played the first edition and this one; they still set a high bar that many rules just don't clear. I would rate them as fairly simple to learn (and teach) with a lot of tactical thinking and additional rules (and add-ons) providing something for everyone. I still consider them to be THE space fighter rules to beat.

This was my first thought, but getting a copy of the rules and expansions can be hard.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Rick on October 20, 2024, 07:03:24 PM
This was my first thought, but getting a copy of the rules and expansions can be hard.

In this, pdf's are your friend! I have most of them in original printing but they are available (plus a few extra's) from Wargame Vault.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: BaronVonJ on October 20, 2024, 07:32:40 PM
Caliver carries most of our titles in the UK, but here’s the link to our store:  https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/collections/galactic-heroes/products/fistful-of-lead-starfighters-downloadable-pdf-preview-only-on-sale-any-day-now (https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/collections/galactic-heroes/products/fistful-of-lead-starfighters-downloadable-pdf-preview-only-on-sale-any-day-now)
$6. Cheaper than a coffee.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: The_Beast on October 20, 2024, 08:20:13 PM
Have both of the above, and cherish same.

Actually, I find SD's damage path a bit fiddly...

I will suggest using Full Thrust in whatever-iteration-you-like, and kitting out small ships firing forward, ignoring most other systems, as a quick and dirty option, though.

Doug

Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 20, 2024, 08:55:23 PM
Caliver carries most of our titles in the UK, but here’s the link to our store:  https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/collections/galactic-heroes/products/fistful-of-lead-starfighters-downloadable-pdf-preview-only-on-sale-any-day-now (https://wiley-games.myshopify.com/collections/galactic-heroes/products/fistful-of-lead-starfighters-downloadable-pdf-preview-only-on-sale-any-day-now)
$6. Cheaper than a coffee.

Many thanks :)
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 20, 2024, 08:56:59 PM
Have both of the above, and cherish same.

Actually, I find SD's damage path a bit fiddly...

I will suggest using Full Thrust in whatever-iteration-you-like, and kitting out small ships firing forward, ignoring most other systems, as a quick and dirty option, though.

Doug

That's actually a pretty good idea  ;)
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 20, 2024, 09:18:03 PM
I will suggest using Full Thrust in whatever-iteration-you-like, and kitting out small ships firing forward, ignoring most other systems, as a quick and dirty option, though.

Doug
https://shop.groundzerogames.co.uk/rules.html (https://shop.groundzerogames.co.uk/rules.html)
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: The_Beast on October 20, 2024, 11:29:39 PM
That's actually a pretty good idea  ;)

Oh, geeze! Now people may actually listen to me for a change. The horror!

FT has had some fan re-writes, Compendium being the most recent, I think, mostly with Jon's blessing, but either FT2 or Fleet Book 1 would be good.

Lastly, Starfighters IS awesome. Given the number of vacchead rulesets I own, the fact I have played it is the highest praise!

Doug
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Grimmnar on October 21, 2024, 02:39:36 AM
Silent Death is my goto spaceship combat rules, but I might be biased.

Actually, I find SD's damage path a bit fiddly...

Doug
How so please?

This was my first thought, but getting a copy of the rules and expansions can be hard.

I don't agree there.

I have to admit I'm still enjoying the older 'Silent Death the next Millennium' rules - I played the first edition and this one; they still set a high bar that many rules just don't clear. I would rate them as fairly simple to learn (and teach) with a lot of tactical thinking and additional rules (and add-ons) providing something for everyone. I still consider them to be THE space fighter rules to beat.
Agreed.

Grimm
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: boywundyrx on October 21, 2024, 03:46:57 PM
Another vote that both Starfighters and Silent Death are good, with the addition that depending on your needs and plans, both could fit your needs.

Starfighters is great for conventions and games with big player numbers. I find it recreates things like Star Wars (specifically TIE fighters) well, the weakest TIE I can create in SD still lasts too long, SF TIEs blow up real good.  SF is also self-contained in one book, and gives you rules for some big ships (or using the rules for a battle between bigger ships, but I haven't tried that).  SF also fits into the Fistful of Lead family of games, which I love, so moving over to it doesn't require rewiring my brain. It has a campaign game.

Silent Death gives more crunch, in the usual good and bad ways, but is still a very playable game and has some neat mechanics. It has more weapon options, and while some are spread through the fluff books, those tend to be pretty setting specific and you can do most of what you want in the couple of core books.  SD also has a wider size range of ships built in, and two of the expansions lets you upscale further, but IIRC the Kashmiri book requires some brainpower and errata to figure that out.

A setting neutral SD ruleset would be pretty kickass, even as pdfs, you're still buying a lot of fluff with every book.  Both rule sets could also be used for things like pulpfighters.

For me, I would use SF at conventions and for one-shots in my basement over an evening, and probably for everything Star Wars, including campaigns. SD would be for when we want to play something that dives deeper into tech and we'd play regularly by patching on some campaign rules.

Chris
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 21, 2024, 05:24:31 PM
Many thanks, everyone!
I have downloaded the core books for Starfighters and Silent Death and will dig out my old copies of Full Thrust, then have a read-through and see what feels right.

Thanks again. 
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on October 23, 2024, 01:36:17 AM
I'll agree with the multiple Silent Death recs, but someone ought to provide a link for the DTRPG or WV store page:

 https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/publisher/8834/metal-express/category/23888/silent-death
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: blacksmith on October 23, 2024, 08:27:37 PM
Hello, I wrote Fighter Command and a supplement with a full campaing commandir a star carrier for Two Hour Wargames years ago. I designed the game for solo playing and greatly inspired by the PC game Wing Commander. Now it is being sold by Rebel Minis.
There is a review here: http://deltavector.blogspot.com/2013/05/5150-fighter-command-space-fighter.html (http://deltavector.blogspot.com/2013/05/5150-fighter-command-space-fighter.html)
and lots of AARs in my blog: http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/search/label/5150%20Fighter%20Command (http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/search/label/5150%20Fighter%20Command)
I also used those Silent Death plastic ships for my games:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8fSAxbrjt2Ps0VIY7Zx-9wYotFL5ZA7NX0oqO6Vu_MdhaZJ_pSZqEs_VHaurLUCxNCExs324s3jah8pxlkY9jdYbvmyf8x-EAi0sPN0SRrjqfaAqRjse7f0EC2sO1GIiuxJFi60DqZ58/s1600/orcs+035.jpg)
cheers,
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Snowdogs on October 24, 2024, 07:03:36 PM
Hello, I wrote Fighter Command and a supplement with a full campaing commandir a star carrier for Two Hour Wargames years ago. I designed the game for solo playing and greatly inspired by the PC game Wing Commander. Now it is being sold by Rebel Minis.
There is a review here: http://deltavector.blogspot.com/2013/05/5150-fighter-command-space-fighter.html (http://deltavector.blogspot.com/2013/05/5150-fighter-command-space-fighter.html)
and lots of AARs in my blog: http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/search/label/5150%20Fighter%20Command (http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/search/label/5150%20Fighter%20Command)
I also used those Silent Death plastic ships for my games:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh8fSAxbrjt2Ps0VIY7Zx-9wYotFL5ZA7NX0oqO6Vu_MdhaZJ_pSZqEs_VHaurLUCxNCExs324s3jah8pxlkY9jdYbvmyf8x-EAi0sPN0SRrjqfaAqRjse7f0EC2sO1GIiuxJFi60DqZ58/s1600/orcs+035.jpg)
cheers,

Many thanks! I'll have a look through...
Those ships look fantastic btw  :-*
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on October 24, 2024, 07:41:26 PM
The metal Silent Death minis (still available from Metal Express, and still quite cheap) also paint up nicely.  My very incomplete gallery is online over here:

https://brokenstarsburningships.blogspot.com/2019/09/silent-death-gallery.html
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: The_Beast on October 24, 2024, 08:26:01 PM
Fiddly? Explain? Not sure I can...

I think I got lost ticking off boxes and applying results.

Of course, I find threshold checks for Full Thrust for large units a bit of a road bump, and am universally decried for same.

Access: is it available on Metal Express? If not, plenty of used floating about, and pay per download abound. WargameVault has Next Millennium for nine beans US, hardly a pain.

I think I had Fighter Command once, but never got around to it. With the number of previous and current THW I have been picking up lately, seems only a matter of time.

FT was offered as a quick start, especially the number of folks familiar with same.

Doug

Edit: Long ago and far away, Jon Tuffley, author of FT, wrote a short starfighter game called Tacship for Ragnarok. NOT FT, but offered for completeness.

https://www.sfsfw.org/a/03/tacship.php
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Rick on October 26, 2024, 11:23:47 PM
I quite like those 'Tacship' rules. You could always vary the points available (+/- 10) per fighter, as long as the average remained 30 per fighter taken. Simple but lots of potential there - thanks for that, I hadn't seen those before.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on October 27, 2024, 12:06:18 PM
Tacship's an oldie but a goodie.  Still holds up nicely as a rules-lite starfighter game after all these years.  If Jon ever does a proper new edition of FT he really ought to find room to shove those rules into the new book as a special bonus feature.
Title: Re: Space fighter rules
Post by: The_Beast on October 31, 2024, 02:18:23 PM
First, the elephant in the spacedock, I missed Dice Roller mentioning Tacship, with link, before I did. Deepest apologies, old bean!

Tacship's an oldie but a goodie.  Still holds up nicely as a rules-lite starfighter game after all these years.  If Jon ever does a proper new edition of FT he really ought to find room to shove those rules into the new book as a special bonus feature.

While I first saw the ruleset on the GZG mailgroup, and not the short time I was a member of SFSFW, I do think in general Jon considers it theirs.

Doug