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Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: has.been on November 10, 2024, 01:35:49 PM

Title: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 10, 2024, 01:35:49 PM

San, aka DonkeyMilkMan (LAFer) came round & we had two games of WW1 Airplanes.
It was not a day to be a pilot!
In game one he shot down my French fighter pilot & even though I had already
downed his fighter escort, it left his bomber with a clear run on target.
Game One to the Bosh. :-[

Game two I came on with two British fighters. Sam again chose a fighter & a bomber.
He likes the idea of having a rear gunner.
This time victory went to the Allies, due to some games of chicken when they flew
straight at the Hun!
Much fun, & chat was had. A good day.
The rules, Escadrille,  fit onto two sides of a page (I like simple) & were written
many years ago by my friend Andy Taylor.
The playmat is by the excellent Deep Cut people.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 10, 2024, 01:47:50 PM

I forgot to mention, in case people are interested,
Game 1 = Neuport 28  V Fokker DVII & a Hannover
Game 2 = Two SE5a  V Fokker Triplane & a Roland.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 10, 2024, 07:31:13 PM

Sounds like you guys had a blast!

I'm beginning to appreciate the rear gunner-types over the fighters that had 1 fuselage-mounted gun and 1 over-the-wing gun as well.

I'm still using my homemade rules, did your friend Andy put the Escadrille rules out of general consumption?  I'm finding it difficult to bring down a large bomber with pilot/rear gunner, even with a fighter that has 2 forward-firing MGs at twice the firepower.  Probably the way my rules are written...could be my tactics!!!

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 10, 2024, 08:33:31 PM

I don't think Andy would have any problem with me letting people use the rules.

If I have got this scanning thing right they should now be attached.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 10, 2024, 08:40:12 PM

The bit I managed to cut off at the bottom of page 1 should say:-

Gunnery

Highest initiative fires first, then in descending order.
Target must be in sights (rear gunners in two seaters
must check this on roll of 4,5,6 for target to rear).
Firing costs 1 AP per burst, the number of which must
be declared before firing. Ranges are as follows:-

SHORT : 6 ins / MEDIUM : 18 ins / LONG : 36 ins.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: flatpack on November 10, 2024, 10:58:06 PM

Looks fun.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 11, 2024, 07:07:05 AM

Thanks Bob, it was. :D

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 11, 2024, 01:04:20 PM

Yes, thanks much!!!  I like simple.  ;D

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 11, 2024, 01:17:32 PM

I said I like simple but my homemade rules are a bit more than that.  Here's the "meat" of my combat rules:

COMBAT
(Affects take effect at END of current turn)

1. Announce if aircraft is shooting a Short/Medium/Long Burst, then Roll 1D6
(see NOTE 1 prior to going to step 2)

NOTE 1: If a 6 was rolled: Roll 1D6 to see if Pilot or Observer were HIT:

   For Single-Seat Aircraft      On a roll of 1 or 6   Pilot was HIT

   For Two-Seat Aircraft      On a roll of 1 or 6   Roll 1D6 again
                  Even roll      Pilot was HIT
                  Odd roll      Observer was HIT

   If HIT, then Roll 1D6         Even roll      KILLED
                  Odd roll      INJURED

Mark on Aircraft Data Sheet whenever Pilot or Observer are hit and condition

2. For:    SHORT Burst - Mark 1 ammo box for each weapon/weapons fired (see NOTE 3)
   MEDIUM Burst - Mark 2 ammo boxes (see NOTE 3)
   LONG Burst - Mark 3 ammo boxes (see NOTES 2 and 3)

NOTE 2: If Long Burst Roll 1D6. If roll = 1 or 6 then gun(s) Jammed after firing (see steps 6, 7)

NOTE 3: When all ammo boxes are filled in, the weapon is Out Of Ammo (see steps 6, 7)

3. Apply the following Modifiers as applicable:
A)   -1 for each hex from shooter to target
B)   +1 for every 2 movement points (round up) shooter aircraft is faster than target (divide by 2)
C)   -1 for every 2 movement points (round up) shooter aircraft is slower than target (divide by 2)
D)   +1 for every Kill shooter has up to +5 (Ace Status)
E)   -1 for every Kill target has up to -5 (Ace Status)
F)   -2 for each wound the shooting Pilot and or Observer received (As Per NOTE 1)
G)    If Aircraft used a Single gun      If Aircraft used 2 Synchronized Guns
   +0 if shooting Short Burst         +2 if shooting Short Burst
   +1 if shooting Medium burst         +3 if Shooting Medium Burst
   +2 if shooting Long burst         +4 if shooting Long Burst

4. If result is greater than 0 after applying Modifiers A thru G, then that many HITS ARE SCORED. The resulting number of HITS is marked off on the target’s Damage Boxes.
For every 10 Damage Boxes filled, subtract 1 from movement distance and place appropriate Speed indicator on aircraft stand.  When all Damage Boxes are filled in, aircraft is destroyed.

5.  If Pilot was wounded, subtract 1 movement distance box for each wound received.

6. Out Of Ammo or Jammed: Place appropriate colored marker(s) on aircraft stand:
Out of Ammo (Pilot) = Light Red Marker      Out of Ammo (Observer) = Orange Marker
Jammed    (Pilot) = Black Marker      Jammed    (Observer) = White Marker

7. For PILOT: End of NEXT turn         For OBSERVER: End of CURRENT turn:
       Roll 1D6 to reload or clear jam. On a roll of 2, 3, 4, 5 weapon(s) is reloaded or jam cleared.  If    1 or 6    weapon(s) is still out of ammo or jammed.


I have individual AIRCRAFT DATA SHEETS I cobbled from various sources, mainly Canvas Eagles and my own imagination  o_o, that include the aircrafts speed (distance they can move) and numbers of hits they can take before going down in flames.

My written rules, with all the pertinent stuff not including the individual Aircraft Data Sheets, has grown to 6 pages, but this page is the only one I keep handy now that I've got the rest memorized.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 11, 2024, 04:06:10 PM

Thanks for sharing Dubar. :)

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 11, 2024, 08:27:09 PM

You're welcome!

Here's the Movement rules page:

MOVEMENT

1. Shuffle a deck of cards and deal each aircraft a card until deck is depleted and all aircraft have same number of cards (set any extra cards aside).  DO NOT SHUFFLE CARDS ONCE THEY ARE DEALT
2. Each aircraft plays top card in his hand, low card moves first (Ace is low). If cards are same, play in this order: Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, Spades.  Discard once the cards are played for that turn.
3. Aircraft must use it’s FULL allotted movement each turn as determined by Aircraft Data Sheets, unless damage has reduced it’s speed, then use current speed.
4. An aircraft cannot end it’s move in a hex occupied by another aircraft unless that aircraft has not yet moved this turn.  Plan your moves accordingly!!!  Leave Marker in original hex until move is over.

TURNING & SLIPPING
1. Turning towards a new hex face/side requires 1 move forward then 1 move towards the face/side.
2. Slipping may be performed by moving into the adjacent hex that’s in a forward direction at the cost of 2 moves each hex.
3. If direction of turn or slip is changed (right to left or left to right) then aircraft must move forward 1 hex before changing direction.

FLYING OFF THE BOARD
1. If an aircraft’s movement takes it off the board, it has entered a cloud bank.  Mark the EXIT hex, aircraft cannot reenter until rolling 1D6 = 5 or 6 at end of turn.
2. If it can reenter the board:
a) Determine reentry hex by rolling 1d3 (1D6/2), result is number of hexes from exit hex
THEN
b) Determine if reentry hex is left or right of exit hex by rolling 1d6,
     if 1-3-5 it reenters left of the exit hex and if 2-4-6 it reenters right of the exit hex

And here's 2 pages of aircraft I have in my collection with Speed/Distance and amount of Damage each can take.

AIRCRAFT STATISTICS

PURPOSE = Reconnaissance = R      Bomber = B      Fighter = F

            
GERMANY         PURPOSE      MOVEMENT   GUNS           DAMAGE
                  (Speed+Maneuverability)

AEG C-IV            R/B      5+0=5      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 1 Flex (Obs)   38

ALBATROS C-XII         R      6+1=7      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 1 Flex (Obs)   41

ALBATROS D-II         F      6+2=8      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      29

ALBATROS D-III         F      6+2=8      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      30

ALBATROS D-Va         F      6+3=9      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      30

FOKKER D-VI            F      6+3=9      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      27

FOKKER D-VII            F      6+4=10      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      27

FOKKER D-VIII            F      7+4=11      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      24

FOKKER DR-1            F      6+2=8      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      24

ROLAND D-VIb            F      6+3=9      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      29

PFALZ D-XII            F      6+3=9      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      28

PFALZ D-VIII            F      6+4=10      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      28

SIEMANS-SCHUCKERT D-IV      F      6+4=10      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      26

PFALZ DIIIa            F      6+2=8      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      29

RUMPLER CIV            R      5+1=6      1 Fixed (Pilot) 1 Flex (Obs)   41

ROLAND DII            F      6+1=7      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      31


(Speed was determined by taking 10% of max airspeed (mph) of actual aircraft data divided by 2)

(Maneuverability was determined by taking the number of maneuvers from Canvas Eagles Data Sheets divided by 2, then grouped into 5 groups: 7-10 =0, 11-14 =1, 15-18 =2, 19-22 =3, 23-26 =4)

(Movement was determined by adding Speed and Maneuverability)

(Damage determined by totals of damage boxes from Canvas Eagles Data Sheets divided by 2)










AIRCRAFT STATISTICS

PURPOSE = Reconnaissance = R      Bomber = B      Fighter = F



GREAT BRITAIN      PURPOSE      MOVEMENT   GUNS           DAMAGE
                  (Speed+Maneuverability)

AIRCO DH2            F      5+1=6      1 Fixed (Pilot)         31

AIRCO DH9            F/R      6+1=7      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 1 Flex (Obs)   41

BRISTOL F2b            F      6+2=8      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 1 Flex (Obs)   41

SE 5a               F      7+4=11      1 Fixed & 1 Wing Flex (Pilot)   29

SOPWITH TRIPLANE         F      6+2=8      1 Fixed (Pilot)         26

SOPWITH CAMEL         F      6+3=9      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      26

SOPWITH PUP            F      6+3=9      1 Fixed (Pilot)         27

SOPWITH 1-1/2 STRUTTER      F/R      5+2=7      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 1 Flex (Obs)   33


FRANCE

NIEUPORT 17            F      6+4=10      1 Fixed & 1 Wing Fixed (Pilot)   23

BREGUET XIV            R/B      6+0=6      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 2 Flex (Obs)   34


U.S.A.

NIEUPORT 28            F      6+3=9      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      24

SALMSON 2A2            R/B      6+1=7      1 Fixed (Pilot) & 2 Flex (Obs)   40

SPAD XIII            F      7+3=10      2 Fixed (joined) (Pilot)      29

ITALY

ANSALDO SVA5         R/B      7+3=10      2 Fixed (Pilot)         35

HANRIOT HD1            F      6+3=9      1 Fixed (Pilot)         25

(Speed was determined by taking 10% of max airspeed (mph) of actual aircraft data divided by 2)

(Maneuverability was determined by taking the number of maneuvers from Canvas Eagles Data Sheets divided by 2, then grouped into 5 groups: 7-10 =0, 11-14 =1, 15-18 =2, 19-22 =3, 23-26 =4)

(Movement was determined by adding Speed and Maneuverability)

(Damage determined by totals of damage boxes from Canvas Eagles Data Sheets divided by 2)


Sorry things don't lineup on here as they do on the typed sheets but it's all there.


I've made spreadsheets with the aircraft stats on them and laminated the sheets, then I cut each aircraft into separate "mini-sheets" that I use to play the game.  I use a dry-marker to mark off the blocks as they use up ammo and take damage.  If I can I'll post examples of what a sheet of 3 aircraft looks like, need to turn it into a jpeg file to make it look right.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 11, 2024, 08:35:16 PM

Here's an example of what a single aircraft data sheet looks like for a Sopwith Camel:

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 12, 2024, 01:12:37 PM

Here's what a full 8.5x11 sheet of 3 aircraft looks like before I laminate it and cut them apart, so each aircraft data sheet ends up being approximately 3"x7.5"(75x190mm).  I also insert an image of each of my aircraft so I can tell them apart.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: flatpack on November 12, 2024, 11:41:26 PM

Wow, 2 sets of simple ww1 air rules in one post.
Well done Pete…..and Dubar.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Tom Dulski on November 13, 2024, 12:07:04 PM

 damn those planes look great

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 13, 2024, 01:26:25 PM

Yes they do, forgot to mention that.

Has.Been, were they store bought or 3D printed?  I have 3D printed around 30 aircraft so far in 1/72 scale and the final 5 or 6 came out very good to almost perfect.  There's a few on the table that up close look pretty shabby but I still use them.  I found I have to preheat the machine (Elegoo Neptune 4 Pro) and level it numerous times before I start a print.  Doesn't take long to do...except when I'm in a hurry.  ::)

Painting and decaling takes some time, I've been trying to make all the decals, some come out good some don't.  Again I have to take my time when making them or the ink runs.  That is solved with numerous coats of clearcote, but finding images to use and resizing them for 1/72 is daunting.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 13, 2024, 02:05:44 PM

Quote

damn those planes look great

Thanks Tom.

Dubar: The planes are Metal kits. Bought yonks ago from Skytrex. The assembly was a nightmare  :(.
            All the hard work was done by my friend John Cunningham.
            More recently we found 3d printed planes. Originally Syborg(?) but they seem to have stopped doing WW1 planes.
            Ours are all 1:144 scale, you must have a big table for 1:72  :D
            Tumbling dice do some nice, but very small, planes. I would dread recreating some of my camo schemes in 1:300  :o

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 13, 2024, 02:42:57 PM

I started in 1/144 scale, but I found I didn't have the "technique" for doing the paint schemes like I wanted, it's hard enough in 1/72.

I only have a 4x6ft table, it's actually three 2x4ft tables pushed together and covered by a cloth mat with 4" hexes from Cigar Box.



My rules use hexes for movement, the hexes seem to give things a more structured feel.  Movement using hexes brings up some interesting situations, many times I miss out on getting in a shot simply because I didn't have enough, or too much, movement to use.  I had thought about making rules for variable speed on each turn but I'm trying to keep it simple.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: flatpack on November 14, 2024, 06:30:41 AM

Tumbling dice 1/600 (not even 1/300) ww1 aircraft, with camo.
Painted in my earlier years (when I had proper eyes)  lol lol lol
It can (or should I say, could) be done.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HnFp7s86/IMG-5449.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnQVpTXf)

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 14, 2024, 12:02:34 PM

1/600?!?!?!  Do you wear an electron microscope instead of glasses when you play??? lol

You need to but a fly in the photo next time to give us some reference!

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: gweirda on November 14, 2024, 01:27:50 PM

Quote

1/600?!?!?!  Do you wear an electron microscope instead of glasses when you play???

Those models are truly amazing (-and I can relate to the "when I had eyes that worked" sentiment!).  If the range of models had been more extensive back when I started in the genre (or more precisely: my knowledge of them) I would have picked it rather than the 1/300 road I went down.

---TANGENT ON SCALE---
Big models are cool (60 years of building can testify to the truth of that!), but -perhaps more than in other genres?- the disparity between ground/model scales messes with the 'game the action, not the things' focus for tabletop play that I've been leaning into more and more as the years pass.  The 'fender-to-fender' aesthetics aside, presenting a false/misleading impression of the battlefield space goes far, imo, in creating a hurdle which players must clear when translating the gaming picture on the table to the reality (and -more importantly- the decisions that need to be made by the players) it represents.

dunno...gaming is meant to be fun, which is personal, so anything works if it is being enjoyed.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: has.been on November 14, 2024, 03:53:09 PM

Quote

Tumbling dice 1/600 (not even 1/300) ww1 aircraft, with camo.
Painted in my earlier years (when I had proper eyes)  lol lol lol
It can (or should I say, could) be done.

I have seen these in the flesh & they are even better than the pictures.
On the 'When I had proper eyes' front,
I once (never again) worked on 20 1/300th Greek Hoplites.
Cut away the cast spears, replaced them with bristles from a tooth brush.
I even painted individual shield designs !!!!
Like I said, 'Never again'.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 15, 2024, 03:07:19 PM

Every time I open this page and see those 1/600 aircraft I want to make the sound of bees!!!  BZZZ

I've made stands for my planes using bamboo skewers, cut to length and topped with an alligator clip.  I also use binder clips around the skewer to hold the aircrafts "Speed" placard.  If the aircraft loses speed due to damage I can quickly swap the placard out.  I mounted the skewer onto a clear hex base with direction arrow stickers I printed out.

The small hex photo of the aircraft (behind the base) is used to indicate (1) the starting position of the aircraft (helps when planning next moves) and once moved the photo is turned over to the blank side.  And (2) when it comes time for the aircraft to shoot I turn it back over to indicate it has completed its move.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: gweirda on November 15, 2024, 03:32:11 PM

(leaning heavily into the tangent-zone!  ;) )

Quote

I've made stands for my planes using bamboo skewers, cut to length and topped with an alligator clip.  I also use binder clips around the skewer to hold the aircrafts "Speed" placard.  If the aircraft loses speed due to damage I can quickly swap the placard out.

Dunno how many speed placards you use, but it may be less cumbersome in-game (if requiring a bit more work initially) to draw/create a scale on the bamboo and then use small clips (I use tiny 'clothespins') to indicate which number/status applies at any given moment.  The different colored clips can represent different statistics.

(https://brawlfactory.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/stand-clips.jpg)

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 15, 2024, 07:59:46 PM

That's cool!!!  I have a container full of "Speed" markers, from 1 to 12, it's sometimes cumbersome to find the correct marker as they are thin and slippery (laminated) and I made maybe a dozen each.

Now I have a project for the weekend!!! lol

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: aphillathehun on November 16, 2024, 02:40:33 AM

Quote from: Dubar on November 15, 2024, 03:07:19 PM

Every time I open this page and see those 1/600 aircraft I want to make the sound of bees!!!  BZZZ

I've made stands for my planes using bamboo skewers, cut to length and topped with an alligator clip.  I also use binder clips around the skewer to hold the aircrafts "Speed" placard.  If the aircraft loses speed due to damage I can quickly swap the placard out.  I mounted the skewer onto a clear hex base with direction arrow stickers I printed out.

The small hex photo of the aircraft (behind the base) is used to indicate (1) the starting position of the aircraft (helps when planning next moves) and once moved the photo is turned over to the blank side.  And (2) when it comes time for the aircraft to shoot I turn it back over to indicate it has completed its move.

Nice trains.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Fitz on November 16, 2024, 03:05:17 AM

Here's my collection of all the 1/300 scale planes I've constructed and painted so far. There are a bunch still incomplete.

They're about half scratch-built from card, wire and wood, and the other half from Heroics & Ros. The Halberstadt CL-II in the middle came from C-in-C.

They don't get nearly as much use as they should; in fact it's been years since I've managed to talk anyone into pushing them around a table top.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: gweirda on November 16, 2024, 11:47:15 AM

...the tangent has now coiled upon itself and created its own circle!  ;)

Quote

...1/300 scale planes I've constructed and painted...about half scratch-built from card, wire and wood...

I believe the proper adjective for those is "lovely", and quite right.  Having done some myself the applause is heartfelt.

Quote

They don't get nearly as much use as they should; in fact it's been years since I've managed to talk anyone into pushing them around a table top.

Stuck in the same boat (hmm...isn't there an aerial phrase we can use instead?  :) ) - it's a bit of a problem for the genre (-getting enough players gathered to play a fair-sized game).  My solution in the form of (struggling, nascent) rules is there if you'd like to give it a try ( = offer torn between embarrassing self-promotion and honest desire to give help) - drop me a PM if interested.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 16, 2024, 12:48:07 PM

gweirda,

I found a 3D printable "turn pole" on Thingiverse, have to give it a go sometime today:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2844150 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2844150)

I already know I need to reduce its size.  What I want to do is just make the "flags" and use them on my existing poles.  I'll most likely have to make 100 or so flags!!!  But hey, I'm retired and have plenty of time (I hope)!

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 16, 2024, 01:09:34 PM

aphillathehun,

I have an O-scale layout in my upstairs "hobby room" that is approximately 13'x30', the layout goes around the perimeter of the room thru a "tunnel" cut into a dividing wall that separates the upstairs into 2 rooms.  My wife passed back in 2014 and I soon took the entire upstairs over, I figure when I have to I can always close up the small tunnel portal.  I run 3-rail trains on 2-rail track, my engines are Battery-Operated, Remote-Control (BPRC, otherwise known as deadrail) using Xmits and Rcvrs from RCS Australia, Deltang, and Micron Radio Control in the UK.  Going on 10 years now with zero failures.  It can be a tight squeeze when I put the gaming tables up, but I manage.  When I'm gaming WW1 aircraft I use a 4x6ft setup and when I game WW2 I use a 4x4ft setup.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: gweirda on November 16, 2024, 04:04:14 PM

Quote

...a 3D printable "turn pole" on Thingiverse...

hmm...not sure how that would work in a game.
It looks as though the 'flags' slip down over the top of the pole, so couldn't be changed out if the model is there?

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 16, 2024, 05:19:03 PM

I'm trying to print some now but yeah, you'd have to remove things to put them on/off if you put only 1 flag on the pole.

I just successfully printed one that is a snug fit on the bamboo skewers, what I plan on is making 11 flags for each of the dozen poles I have, takes 5 minutes to make 1 flag.  I can probably get away with only making 10-12 of each flag.  My fastest aircraft has 11 as its speed, the slowest is 6, most are 7, 8, and 9.  So I may just make enough in the 5-9 range and only a few in the other speed ranges.  Rarely have I played a game where a plane gets down to below speed 4, it's usually crashed and burned by then.

I can tell the printer to print multiples at the same time which should cut down on overall print time.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Fitz on November 16, 2024, 10:16:24 PM

Further to my last:
Here's a scale comparison between 1/300 (Skytrex, I think, or maybe H&R), 1/200 (resin 3d print) and 1/144 (FDM 3d print).

The 3d prints are from my own design. The Lewis gun is quite over-scale, as I was afraid that if I did it to scale it might just disappear, but I think I over-did it a bit.
The FDM print is pretty much straight off the printer, with just the printing fluff removed; it still needs a bit of clean-up before painting.
The 1/300 metal casting has had some wire interplane struts added; the original model had none.

I used to have a half-built 1/72 Se5a kit as well, but I recently binned it since I figured I was never, ever going to finish it.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Fitz on November 17, 2024, 01:35:48 AM

This Sopwith Triplane was (I think) a CapnAhab design. I added a pilot and some engine detail, but that's all, and I printed it on my Mars Pro at 1:200 scale.

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgTnRMRe7Arom-e9BKOTeFQ60iuZZf-JgcH03hI6n-pj8uF-c8-GC0Z0kpE-bQ048PYKHqY8q7W_Pdi1_Cz6FBQXBFokJKpTUKDcVkckqYhiJ0DLgPu9ba3mre3zg5vzsE80qutVvtv2Fn8sHgWPhOY-kiuUd_xuS6LQi__YmKQUnGrYYz2Pk2aWMCuuFHN/s800/2024-11-17_SopwithTriplane_1-200.jpg)

The model has no wing-rib or control surface detail at all, and I've just painted some in. The effect is fine, for a gaming piece, and having smooth surfaces instead of ribbed certainly does make applying decals a bajillion times easier.

I've messed about with a range of scales for WW1 aerial wargaming — 1:300, 1:200 and 1:144. The most satisfying of them from a modelling point of view is 1:144, and for maximizing table space of course 1:300 is best. But I think 1:200 is a very good compromise between the two; big enough to be able to see, and small enough to make the best of available space.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Donkeymilkman on November 17, 2024, 12:18:15 PM

Back tracking a week, here are all the ariel combat photos I took from the two games. Too much fun was being had to remember to take a photo.

Thank you Has.Been for hosting, company and the food.

(https://i.postimg.cc/5NtZWm14/WW-1-Aircombat-091124-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F12Pj378)

Game One: the Germans hunting down their French prey.

(https://i.postimg.cc/3rtc1DGP/WW1-Aircombat-091124-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhZD65NT)

Game Two: The Germans made a bloody blunder, going head first into the British.

Lovely rules and fast plays, once again thank you for hosting Has.Been.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xdGszkYp/WW1-Aircombat-091124-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJjbFtXV)

Game Two: The British circling like sharks the poor Fritz.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 17, 2024, 01:43:15 PM

Great stuff Fitz and Donkeymilkman!!!  I have several 3D printed 1/144 aircraft in the "hangers" but most are unpainted/decaled, it was all I could do to decal the 1/72 models.  You guys may have prompted me into giving them another go.

I 3D printed 75 (not 120  o_o) "flags" yesterday, enough for 12 stands.  It took approx. 15 minutes to print a group of 5, so it took a bit more than 4 (not 6) hours once I got them the size I wanted.  They're 10mm wide and are a snug fit on the bamboo skewers, but easy enough to rotate.  Whatever speed I need to show I spin the others in the opposite direction.  I located a stash of small stickers that I folded over each flag and wrote numbers on each side to indicate speed.  Here's what they look like:

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 17, 2024, 01:47:17 PM

Oh...the black tiddlywink indicates the poor Albatros had just jammed his guns, tried to get off a too long a burst!  I decided to leave the binder clips in place and use them to hold "winks" that represent Out of Ammo or Jammed Guns.  I was placing them on the hex bases but whenever I moved them around the winks went sliding off into the clouds.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 17, 2024, 02:28:07 PM

Here's my rules in PDF format for those interested (hope this works):

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 19, 2024, 03:53:32 PM

I played a game the other night and realized the sequence of the Combat rules on page 3 left a lot to be desired, the mechanics seem to work but the steps and notes were not very well organized.  I ended up rearranging page 3 along with highlighting the notes about long bursts and crew getting hit.  I've attached the entire PDF file but the only page changed was page 3, sorry for the confusion for those that downloaded it.

The PDF file is at the bottom of this post.

I also found that my small SPEED stickers were peeling off, that's what I get for using stickers that were over 10yrs old!  ;D  I ended up making numbered decals and putting them on the flags I made.  Made a few more batches of flags plus some red and some blue flags to indicate pilot and observer wounds.

I played another game last night between the Germans and the Italians.  On the German side were 1 Albatros DIII and 1 Pfalz DIIIa, the Italians had 1 Ansaldo SVA5 and 2 Hanriot HD1s.

Turn 1 was nothing more than the aircraft maneuvering into position, but turn 2 they got into the thick of things:

The Pfalz took a beating with both Hanriots getting in some good shots. The Ansaldo, with its twin guns, got a few hits on the Albatros as well.  The Albatros got in a few good hits on silver Hanriot but caused no real damage.

Turn 3 for the Germans proved to be no better, with the "4 Aces" Hanriot and the Andsaldo peppering the Albatros.  The Pfalz managed to get off a few rounds into "4 Aces" in return:

In turn 4 it appeared the Germans were going to turn things around, "4 Aces" had depleted its ammo and broke off the fight to rearm, while both German planes got in a few good hits on "4 Aces" and the Ansaldo.  The other Hanriot caused further, severe damage to the Pfalz, which decided to head home.

Things looked dark for the 2 German pilots.  In turns 5 and 6, before the Pfalz could make it back to his lines, the Ansaldo finished off the Pfalz, sending the pilot to an early grave before turning towards the Albatros:

By turn 7 the Albatros was suffering too and decided to limp home, crossing the lines before anymore damage would have taken him down.

The Italians pulled it off, with light to medium damage on all 3 aircraft.  The German lost the Pfalz and only the quick thinking of the Albatros pilot he was able to make it back.  I feel the speed of the Italian aircraft played the major part in their victory.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Driscoles on November 19, 2024, 04:19:58 PM

This looks really nice!

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 19, 2024, 04:37:07 PM

Thanks!  I tried matching the photos with the narrative but couldn't get them inserted where I wanted.  As far as the PDF goes, anyone using them and has suggestions pleased let me/us know.  And if you don't like something feel free to make your own home rules.  I don't think I've played a rules set yet that I didn't modify them to my own personal views.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 20, 2024, 12:16:43 PM

For anyone curious...I use those small hex-shaped photos of the aircraft as place cards so I can remember where the plane started it's movement (helps when planning a move) and what type of plane it is.  I've also started putting arrows on the back side to help keep the correct orientation, I flip them over to the back after they're moved to indicate the move was completed.  After all aircraft move, I flip the hex back over as each aircraft completes its firing sequence.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Fitz on November 20, 2024, 08:02:28 PM

Here's all the 1:200 aircraft I've actually completed so far, and all the ones I've printed but have yet to paint.

I printed these a couple of years ago (at least!), so nobody could accuse me of being a fast worker.

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: flatpack on November 20, 2024, 10:31:10 PM

Someone’s been busy  :o :o

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on November 30, 2024, 10:19:54 PM

A little milk and you have a tasty snack!!!  lol

Title: Re: WW1 Dog-fights
Post by: Dubar on December 10, 2024, 11:47:54 AM

I found this site a while back, it has a number of photos and paint schemes of WW1 aircraft:

https://flyingmachines.ru/ (https://flyingmachines.ru/)

You can type in a plane (Fokker DVIII) and the page that pops up has a button to change to a different language.