Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: FifteensAway on November 15, 2024, 10:46:45 PM
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Saw this in the news today:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/preserved-remains-saber-tooted-kitten-found-frozen-russian/story?id=115896850 (https://abcnews.go.com/International/preserved-remains-saber-tooted-kitten-found-frozen-russian/story?id=115896850)
Pretty hard to argue with the coloration. Very cool. Now I know how to paint mine when I get to them.
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That’s amazing. Thank you for posting. Although I now feel sad for the poor beastie lol
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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<pedant mode> Technically Homotheriums are scimitar cats rather than sabre tooth. Related to but not the same as sabre tooth tigers.</pedant mode>
Cool find none the less, so thanks for posting the link Fifteens Away.
I've been trying to find a 15mm beastie that would do as a Homotherium, I have several sabre tooth tigers.
The find rather scuppers my plan of painting it like this ...
(https://newdinosaurs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/1208_homotherium_daniel_reed.jpg)
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There were at least 3 distinct species of sabre-tooth cats, of different sizes and, presumably, colours. I think there's still a bit of wiggle room to use a different paint scheme if you wanted to.
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Do we have any tangible evidence of the cats color scheme beyond an artist’s interpretation?
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Do we have any tangible evidence of the cats color scheme beyond an artist’s interpretation?
The fur on the remains of the cub looks reddish/ ginger but apparently when living it would have looked dark brown or black.
There are several species of homotheriums, with some dispute over where some specimens belong.
So for Homotherium Latidens it's black or brown fur and for the rest it's educated guesswork, as far as I know.
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Awesome news! That’s really stunning. :o
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Given the extremely wide variety of feline coat patterns, I think you paint it how you like. It is also possible that this was a species in which the coat color and markings changed as the animal matured. A single, very young specimen doesn't definitively tell us a lot about sabertooth cats in general.
I wonder if their is enough DNA present to get a genome?
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There were at least 3 distinct species of sabre-tooth cats, of different sizes and, presumably, colours.
Current counting is seven. I've long held out hope than a live eighth could emerge any time now. But hey, we can jumpstart and clone this kitteh!
=^,^=
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Cat - sign me up, I’d love a big guard kitty!
As Dave Crow states that many species’ young have very different colouring/markings than the adults - even in big predators the young would be vulnerable when left (adults hunting) so may be more cryptically patterned than a full adult. They could potentially also display SCC (seasonal coat colour) and change to a white variant coat in the winter. Not helpful but something to consider (and gives you much more freedom when painting yours).
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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The age based colour shift is likely, but there’s very little chance that any of the sabre toothed cat species or their relatives changed colour seasonally- no other cats do, including the ones that are endemic to snowy environments (Canada lynx, mountain lion, Amur tigers, snow leopards all have the same colours year-round). Seasonal colour change does happen in Arctic foxes, but not wolves, coyotes, jackals. It’s also limited to weasels in the mustelid family and doesn’t happen in bears (polar bears are white year-round, as are the near-white American black bear sub-species). Basically, it seems to be a fairly rare evolutionary characteristic, and skews toward smaller species that are more likely to be prey, rather than top end carnivores (Arctic foxes are mid-sized, but small compared to other predators in their environment).
The distribution of seasonal colour change among carnivorous mammals may be linked to the split about 55 million years ago between cat-like families of species and dog-like families. Mustelids and canines are both on the dog-like branch, and all of the seasonal change species are in those families. So, either the genes for that adaptation were not passed on in the cat-like line or (more likely) the mutation popped up in the dog-like branch after the split.
Of course, until someone decodes the genes that govern seasonal colour change and shows definitively that Sabre-toothed cats can’t have changed colour, there’s no reason you couldn’t paint them white for winter games! It’s a fun concept- takes a terrifying animal and adds a layer of sneakiness…
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Pattus - I also don’t think it was likely they displayed SCC, I was just trying to find some kind of positive excuses (rule of cool) for people that wanted (or had already painted) a white variant lol Don’t write of all cats so quickly - consider the devious Siamese and it’s Himalayan gene expression (although the wrong way around for this particular case). In my mind now there are Nimravidae and Machairodontinae that can change colour like some Octopoda :o
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
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White lions are a genetic mutation, which is not contra-indicated in sabreteeth.
Lion colouration (and leopard) also varies strongly by region. And lions change colour as they age.
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BaLM, that would be something else! :o
Cat, yeah definitely lions (and tigers and likely most other cats) have white mutations. The same thing (leucism) occasionally pops up in most bird and mammal species (probably in fish, lizards and amphibians too, but I haven’t heard about it happening in those).
My speculation is only about seasonal colour change, where all members of a species routinely change colour on a seasonal basis. It’s common in birds, but mostly seems oriented toward display colouring for attracting mates, rather than camouflage. The capacity for seasonal colour shift is a rare adaptation in mammals. As far as I know, it’s only found in some species of hares, some species of small weasels, and arctic foxes. Which is odd, because it seems like it would be useful for most species that live in snowy environments. Hares are an outlier on that list (totally different brach of the mammal tree) which suggests a seasonal colour change adaptation evolved at least twice (it’s possible the mutations in weasels and arctic foxes also are unrelated).
More speculation, but one possible reason that the seasonal change adaptation skews toward smaller species is that changing to white can be a big disadvantage if the change is out of sync with the actual weather. I saw it with a weasel- it was in full white, but the local weather had melted all the snow and the critter stood out like a neon sign. That happens a lot with hares, too, where their coats are white but the snow is gone. The smaller animals breed at really fast rates, though, so the population persists but larger animal species with lower reproductive speeds are more likely to die out if the coat change loses sync (polar bears don’t need to worry as much, since snow patches stay longer in their environment and they’re the apex predators…). Leucistic individuals in other species face a similar problem and don’t tend to survive long either. Even in places that are pretty cold, snow is on the ground less than half the year (especially in peak birthing raising offspring periods), so being white is a disadvantage more often than it isn’t for most species.
The rule of cool alway has a place with our little figures, but selection pressure is harsh in the wider world! Still, real critters are super cool in their own right.
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Pattus - I also don’t think it was likely they displayed SCC, I was just trying to find some kind of positive excuses (rule of cool) for people that wanted (or had already painted) a white variant lol Don’t write of all cats so quickly - consider the devious Siamese and it’s Himalayan gene expression (although the wrong way around for this particular case). In my mind now there are Nimravidae and Machairodontinae that can change colour like some Octopoda :o
Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain
Now you have me picturing a saber-tooth in Siamese markings stalking the table top...
Or if you want to be silly a calico!