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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Easy E on 19 November 2024, 06:41:36 PM
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Anyone who has been in the hobby for any length of time has had to deal with it; Hobby Burnout. This can be losing the mojo to paint, abandoning a project half-way through, avoiding playing, etc.
I posted some thoughts on how I deal with it on my Wargame Design blog here:
https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2024/11/wargame-design-dealing-with-burnout.html
The highlights are:
1. Just Do It! - The hardest part is starting. Therefore, start.
2. Move the goalposts - Change your due dates and goals for yourself
3. Expose yourself to inspiration - Seek out things in other genres to help kickstart you
4. Touch Grass - GO clear your mind with some fresh air
However, there is no "right way" to manage Hobby Burnout. In addition, my incentives for dealing with it are different from yours. Therefore, what I do probably won't work for you and vice-versa. Sometimes, what I listed above doesn't help me either!
Therefore, I am interested in what you do to manage your Hobby Burnout?
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Hobby burnout? That’s a quite a first world problem…some of us never get enough time to devote to the hobby to put us at risk of burnout. Usually it’s just the opposite.
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Hobby burnout? That’s a quite a first world problem…some of us never get enough time to devote to the hobby to put us at risk of burnout. Usually it’s just the opposite.
Arguably anything related to elaborately playing with expensive toys is a first world problem. lol
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some of us never get enough time to devote to the hobby to put us at risk of burnout. Usually it’s just the opposite.
This has mostly been my situation, for sure. My focus has narrowed to sci-fi skirmish because of it - the endless worldbuilding possibilities in your own scifi setting, plus the possibility of reconfiguring my mini collection into gangs/factions, gives me lots to think about when I don't have time/space to do anything more than think about the hobby.
Within that, a certain kind of burnout can still happen - I could convert and kitbash gangs and warbands indefinitely, but when you lose the orienting purpose it just gets a bit dull and directionless.
I guess what I'm trying to say with that last point there is that in my experience, "oooh shiny I'll get that now" isn't a cure for burnout.
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Hobby burnout? That’s a quite a first world problem…some of us never get enough time to devote to the hobby to put us at risk of burnout. Usually it’s just the opposite.
It is clearly a "problem" because people on these very forums have huge lead piles, unfinished projects galore, and shelves of rules they have never played.
I am glad it is not a problem for you per se.
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I wrote a really long response over the last 20 minutes and cut it down to:
If your hobby is causing you to feel burnt out - sorry but sounds to much like "work" rather than a hobby.
I have a large unpainted and fairly large painted collection, both give me comfort and help deal with burnout rather than cause it - I also have more than one hobby to flit between which helps - as and when I have time for any of them. Basically your suggested options for dealing with burnout apply to my work, not my hobbies.
Frustration with not having enough hobby time ? yes - frustration can be an issue but thankfully not burnout. That's, mostly, just for work.
I really don't see a relation between burnout and lead pile and rules books on shelves and un-played games. I have a couple not played rules sets, but they are interesting. played or not, they provide inspiration for other games that do happen.
But that's me. as with everything. difference abounds.
now - having read your post - that's more impactful as your hobby really is work related. Mine most definitely are not - there in is to me the primary driver here perhaps, and difference in how we define burnout overall.
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People with huge lead mountains are not necessarily burnt out on painting. Just the opposite, they probably got so excited about a new release or project it provokes the equivalence of ADHD, and they took on something they can’t possibly get to unless they shift gears to something else. I wouldn’t call it burnout…it’s a hobby, something done for pleasure. It’s the antidote to burnout.
For some the size of the lead mountain is the goal of the hobby. If you have figs in your pile unpainted, Death will take pity and pass you by for another year. Then there are those “collectors” who are collecting the “fantasy” of painting up a great, masterly painted, unbeatable army on motion picture set diorama terrain. If they actually paint something they lose the fantasy.
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Tsundoku is the Japanese word for collecting reading material, piling it up for later but never getting around to it.
We need an equivalent for our lead mountains.
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We need an equivalent for our lead mountains.
I was always fond of Lead Poisoning... but it's mainly plastic now...
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Hobby Burnout. Yes, I have had an interesting year with this. For me personally I managed to cripple myself by building a significant load of unpainted goodies over several years due to some redundancy payoffs (uhhh yay?) and some bonuses (another first world probelm). Again this is my personal journey but I found I was buying things that were 'too good to lose' rather than part of a plan, and I do like hobby plans. It suits my minor OCD.
I ended up selling off and gifting a significant chunk of what I had amassed. I really enjoyed 'paying it forward' as it made me feel better about myself, and the reduction in goodies felt like a weight had been lifted. I also changed up my hobby space and got a new display case so I could look at my painted stuff - it helped me work out the gaps in my collection that I actually wanted to fill. Side projects were either folded into my main favorites or said goodbye to.
I'm still working on myself - I haven't played a game for ages and I suspect this is due to my burnout in general. I am much more comfortable about where things are going though. Hope my post made some sense to someone!
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I think my burn out is due to work alone.
Since the pandemic my painting table has slowly changed from being where I enjoyed my hobby, to where I have to work 8+ hours a day doing real world stuff. I had to use this because it was private and secure ( my work is such, I can't share it with even my family). Over the months it became my office and having spent all day sat there doing work I didn't feel lime I was escaping when doing my hobby there as well.
I've now partly retired and only work three days a week but I still can't face sitting in my work place to relax! I've tried working at the dining table but spend more time going back and forth to the room with my paint table in to get things I have forgotten, further my painting quality has declined both due to lack of practice and poor light. This leads to me getting frustrated and giving up.
So I guess what all that means is my burnout is not due to boredom or lack of inspiration, but a long lasting change in circumstances somewhat out of my control.
I guess I will just have to grow the pile of shame until I can retire fully and then refurbish the old room to exorcise the work demons from it?
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While I agree a lot of people don't have time for hobbying...plenty of people still get that burnout. I see it from my friends.
I think I'd add some things I do when I get burned out.
1) 'Hobby adjacent' work...such as cleaning up my hobby desk. Sometimes if I'm not feeling like painting, I'll spend an hour or two cleaning up my hobby space, doing inventory, cleaning brushes, throwing out stuff, cleaning my paint mugs, apply thinner or ball-bearings to my new bottles of paint, sorting through miniatures, etc. Basically make the hobby space refreshed and ready for hobbying...a cluttered/messy hobby space piled high with stuff you're ambivalent about painting is an easy way to deter yourself from painting. If you look at your paint desk and think "Ugh..." then you're less likely to sit down and paint/work.
2) I write my own games, so I'm always 50% writing or 50% hobbying...so while I'm getting work done, it's a different form of the same hobby. There are times I don't want to write, so I paint. Times I don't want to paint, so I write. When I want to do neither I work on digital art/layout/etc. for cards/tokens/etc.
3) Somewhat tied to number one, selling off/clearing out the backlog. It can provide space (both physically and mentally). Be honest with yourself about projects you will actually do...or what you won't, and get rid of the stuff you're not going to actually use. In most cases if you change your mind, you can always buy something similar later. I don't mean for you to go sell off valuable old stuff that's worth a bunch of money, but clearing out clutter is great for your mental health...even if it's not hobby related.
4) Put away stuff you're not working on, and don't let your desk pile up with a half dozen projects. I've long advocated against building an army before painting it. Unless you're a special kind of person, that grey mass sitting on the desk/shelf nearby can be mentally oppressive. God forbid you end up quitting the project before you paint it all, as now you've lost more value by building everything - when it'd be worth more in the box. Build, assemble, paint..one unit. Have that as the only thing on your desk. It helps you concentrate and you don't have to stare at everything else you're going to have to paint eventually. An army project can become mentally oppressive pretty easily for a lot of people. So stash that stuff in the closet, and work one unit at a time.
5) Don't be afraid to take a break. Some people hobby for a business, and that's...not an option. For everyone else...if you need to take a month or two off from the hobby? Do it.
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If I am honest I would have to say I have never had hobby burn out. I am always painting, researching, buying and playing.
Been doing it for 35 yrs now.
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2) I write my own games, so I'm always 50% writing or 50% hobbying...so while I'm getting work done, it's a different form of the same hobby. There are times I don't want to write, so I paint. Times I don't want to paint, so I write. When I want to do neither I work on digital art/layout/etc. for cards/tokens/etc.
Yeah, I kind of buried this one under Move the Goal Posts, but I also do a lot of rotating on a 2-5 projects. If I don't feel like working on one I will rotate to another aspect of a different project.
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I think my burn out is due to work alone.
Since the pandemic my painting table has slowly changed from being where I enjoyed my hobby, to where I have to work 8+ hours a day doing real world stuff. I had to use this because it was private and secure ( my work is such, I can't share it with even my family). Over the months it became my office and having spent all day sat there doing work I didn't feel lime I was escaping when doing my hobby there as well.
I've now partly retired and only work three days a week but I still can't face sitting in my work place to relax! I've tried working at the dining table but spend more time going back and forth to the room with my paint table in to get things I have forgotten, further my painting quality has declined both due to lack of practice and poor light. This leads to me getting frustrated and giving up.
So I guess what all that means is my burnout is not due to boredom or lack of inspiration, but a long lasting change in circumstances somewhat out of my control.
I guess I will just have to grow the pile of shame until I can retire fully and then refurbish the old room to exorcise the work demons from it?
I very much get this can’t relax in the space the day job occurs. During Covid when I first started working from home I just started using my computer on the same desk that I used for craft stuff. After a while I found that this was a problem as I couldn’t really switch off from work, seeing ‘work’ sitting there, nor did I do much hobby stuff as the same desk was used both.
Fortunately eldest went to Uni, so was able to move to her room!
I’d suggest moving your painting stuff en masse to the dining room - so it is at least to hand to paint on the dining room table, perhaps setup up some portable painting kits. And add a small light to help - I find good light essential. If we go away for a week, and I take some hobby stuff, I’ll nearly always take a light with me, the led ones are pretty compact.
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I very much get this can’t relax in the space the day job occurs. During Covid when I first started working from home I just started using my computer on the same desk that I used for craft stuff. After a while I found that this was a problem as I couldn’t really switch off from work, seeing ‘work’ sitting there, nor did I do much hobby stuff as the same desk was used both.
Fortunately eldest went to Uni, so was able to move to her room!
I’d suggest moving your painting stuff en masse to the dining room - so it is at least to hand to paint on the dining room table, perhaps setup up some portable painting kits. And add a small light to help - I find good light essential. If we go away for a week, and I take some hobby stuff, I’ll nearly always take a light with me, the led ones are pretty compact.
I'm in the boat where I need to transport gear around the house to paint as I am currently in a very small space and try to paint away from my work desk, which typically means I end up on the kitchen counter or small living/dining room table. I'm actually curious how some people handle their setups in small spaces, portable kits etc, but that may warrant a new thread.
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I keep all my painting stuff stashed when not in use.
I am surprised that this has not been a barrier for me to start painting. Plus, the clean space the rest of the time is nice to look at.
I find if I leave a project out, paradoxically; it is harder for me to sit down and work on it. Unpacking the painting gear helps me switch gears and tell my brain that it is painting time.
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I keep all my painting stuff stashed when not in use.
I am surprised that this has not been a barrier for me to start painting. Plus, the clean space the rest of the time is nice to look at.
I find if I leave a project out, paradoxically; it is harder for me to sit down and work on it. Unpacking the painting gear helps me switch gears and tell my brain that it is painting time.
That's interesting. Any crafty hobby I've ever had I find that I always wish that I could leave things as they are for the night and just sit down and get back to it the next day. Having to stash everything has indeed always been a barrier for me.
I would hate to be able to see the mess, but I would only have this kind of setup in a space that is dedicated to it and not in a part of the house frequented by myself and others.
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Tsundoku is the Japanese word for collecting reading material, piling it up for later but never getting around to it.
Didn't realize there was a name for that habit of mine. lol
I have always had few hobbies and often rotate one to the back burner for months or longer. My basement office has a dedicated desk where I worked before I retired, a 6 ft folding table for my painting, multiple shelving units and two smaller fish tanks. My painted stuff has its own shelves in a storage area with my airbrush setup. Never realized how much stuff I had accumulated over 35 years until our gaming group shutdown and it all came home. I have been cataloging and selling off stuff over the last year or two and that has energized my painting again.
Due to the maintenance, my fish keeping tends to have 5-10 year gaps between set ups and the tanks get smaller every time. For health reasons I doubt I will set up another tank after the fish in the ones I currently have die. That is one hobby where burnout is very real for me.
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When I face the anxiety of my pile, I sell it off. Just get rid of it.
Do I lose money? Yeah. Do I keep my sanity? I mean, maybe.
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I can't really say that I've faced hobby burnout.
Are there individual projects that I've soured on - definitely. Did I start to find excuses not to work on them - yes. However, I fixed that by giving myself permission to fail, shoved the project in a drawer and found something new on the pile.
The hobby itself is more of a refuge from the stuff happening in the real world, so I look forward to slapping paint on figures or gluing things together.
I try to cycle through fantasy, science fiction and modern/post apocalypse stuff, so if I find fantasy losing its pull, I just focus on one of the others for a bit.
I don't follow any of the big games, so, while I buy some figures from GW if I like them, there's no pressure to keep up to date. My hobby is buying, painting and, all too infrequently, playing, all at my own pace.
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My problem is I have too many hobbies!!! :o
Gaming, golfing, target shooting/gun collecting, O scale trains, just not enough time or money for them all. The golfing and guns thing has cooled down a lot to the point that I don't do either to keep proficient. Having achieved my "Holy Grail" in guns has caused a slow down for sure, always wanted a Luger.
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I used to shoot as well. Decided to sell off everything but my some old family revolvers due to age. Friend picked up a WWII luger with stock & holster from an estate sale. Beautiful gun but I almost couldn't chamber the damn thing!
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Shooting is a good way to realize how cheap wargaming is. Thankfully I don't golf nor race cars. I too have a Luger, a beautiful 1916 DWM model, even.
Regarding Herbert's post above...that's also a good idea for a lot of things. I am fascinated by the local 40K gamers around my area who insist on asking for just-shy-of-MSRP for used 40K models, and then complaining that no one has bought them.
When I sell off something, I take a big a cut as I'm willing to, in order to simply get the box out of the house. Waiting for five months to make an extra $5-10 on a box of miniatures is stupid. Take the loss, get the box out of your house and the box off your brain, and move on. If you're having to sell your used 40K models to afford to eat (and in some instances...I don't doubt that's the case) well then that's another story entirely.
It baffles me even more seeing guys go to conventions...bring a van-load of old games and minis, and then price themselves so high they don't sell anything, and they truck it all back to the van after the weekend is over, having sold three items and made $45...while paying $100 for the vendor space. I'm not great at business, but that ain't it.
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Regarding Herbert's post above...that's also a good idea for a lot of things. I am fascinated by the local 40K gamers around my area who insist on asking for just-shy-of-MSRP for used 40K models, and then complaining that no one has bought them.
I rarely begin a listing for an assembled and painted 40K model less than MSRP unless it's really beat up. Depending on the rarity of the model it usually sells for quite a bit more. If the market ignores it for a few cycles then I begin lowering my price. I don't mind waiting awhile for them to sell - after all they are resting on the same shelf they have been on for years. :)
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Shooting is a good way to realize how cheap wargaming is. Thankfully I don't golf nor race cars. I too have a Luger, a beautiful 1916 DWM model, even.
It baffles me even more seeing guys go to conventions...bring a van-load of old games and minis, and then price themselves so high they don't sell anything, and they truck it all back to the van after the weekend is over, having sold three items and made $45...while paying $100 for the vendor space. I'm not great at business, but that ain't it.
That is so true! I managed to acquire a number of WW2 bolt-action rifles, ammo prices for an Arisaka, Carcano, Lee-Enfield, Mosins, even Springfields, has gone thru the roof. It hits home every time I pull the trigger...$2.50 down range with each pull for some of those calibers. I don't have the space or desire anymore to reload and some of those calibers is hard to find these days. For a box of 20 rounds I can get a whole of of 28mm minis!!!
I'll go to model train shows if there's one here close in Virginia, I see the same ole dealers, same ole stuff every show. They somehow think that stuff is rare and ask way more than it's worth. Like you said they keep dragging it out and packing it up every couple of weeks making the show circuits.
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I don't know if I'm feeling burnout at the moment, but certainly a lack of motivation. I think this is due to multiple factors.
I had a goal to paint 100% of my queue by end of the year. I'm gonna miss it by just one project (two sides for Lion/Dragon Rampant). I've already got the models assembled as well as the terrain I want to use for these games. However...
I've been feeling... "what's the point of it all" lately. I've been in this hobby for over 40 years. I have tons of models already painted. some never used and most are certainly not used enough. I feel like I already have too much.
Time is flying by at this age. My son graduates HS in a few months then is off. My daughter is about to enter HS. Neither of them are minis gamers. Maybe I don't put as much energy in this hobby atm and ensure I'm spending more time with them.
We're also thinking about a move across the country (from Texas to New England). It feels like a good opportunity to downsize. If I'm downsizing... do I need to paint up more? Maybe I should even get rid of some of what I have. I dunno. Previous spells of selling off painted models in the past have usually led to regret, but I dunno, maybe I'm feeling the weight of age or less confident in future prospects that time I spend painting little mens isn't as relaxing as it once was? Maybe I should just speak to a therapist...
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I don't know if I'm feeling burnout at the moment, but certainly a lack of motivation. I think this is due to multiple factors.
I had a goal to paint 100% of my queue by end of the year. I'm gonna miss it by just one project (two sides for Lion/Dragon Rampant). I've already got the models assembled as well as the terrain I want to use for these games. However...
I've been feeling... "what's the point of it all" lately. I've been in this hobby for over 40 years. I have tons of models already painted. some never used and most are certainly not used enough. I feel like I already have too much.
Time is flying by at this age. My son graduates HS in a few months then is off. My daughter is about to enter HS. Neither of them are minis gamers. Maybe I don't put as much energy in this hobby atm and ensure I'm spending more time with them.
We're also thinking about a move across the country (from Texas to New England). It feels like a good opportunity to downsize. If I'm downsizing... do I need to paint up more? Maybe I should even get rid of some of what I have. I dunno. Previous spells of selling off painted models in the past have usually led to regret, but I dunno, maybe I'm feeling the weight of age or less confident in future prospects that time I spend painting little mens isn't as relaxing as it once was? Maybe I should just speak to a therapist...
A therapist can never hurt. More generally though, it looks like maybe you're just at point where you should be putting as much time as you can into playing the game as you don't need to be painting much of anything at all anymore. That's a spot many people would like to be at. Sounds like you have enough inventory to create all kinds of games. If you don't have any regular opponents then perhaps the new challenge can be finding some likeminded folks to get games going with. The social interaction and being able to actually use all this stuff you put so much time, money and effort into is only going to be good for your mental health.
And as that may take some time, spin up some cool solo projects and put effort into documenting them for others to see. Show off all your stuff!
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I've been feeling... "what's the point of it all" lately. I've been in this hobby for over 40 years. I have tons of models already painted. some never used and most are certainly not used enough. I feel like I already have too much.
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Maybe I should just speak to a therapist...
A therapist isn't necessarily a bad option if you can afford one, but I suspect this board can provide you with quite the support group. :)
Your post made me realise more clearly what I'd been trying to say earlier in the thread. I've never suffered burnout, but I certainly have felt a kind of saturation. There was one point a few years ago where I was really, really enjoying converting small sci-fi warbands in the 40k setting, and looking at each new release for useful conversion ideas. Then it hit me - how many of these warbands do I actually need?* What is the point in yet another one? - and I lost the buzz for it pretty much immediately.
That wasn't burnout though, I came to see I was happy with what I had and didn't need more. I'd reached saturation point. If that's where you're at too, I hope it also feels like a good place to be. It worked for me, anyway.
*64 turned out to be the answer to this question.
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I’d suggest moving your painting stuff en masse to the dining room - so it is at least to hand to paint on the dining room table, perhaps setup up some portable painting kits. And add a small light to help - I find good light essential. If we go away for a week, and I take some hobby stuff, I’ll nearly always take a light with me, the led ones are pretty compact.
I used to do all my painting on the dining room table pre covid but got threatened by the good lady wife to decamp all of it to the spare room or it would "be cleared away" for me!
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Shooting is a good way to realize how cheap wargaming is.
Sadly if I took up shooting as a hobby His Majesties Constabulary wouldn't be best pleased!!
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A therapist can never hurt. More generally though, it looks like maybe you're just at point where you should be putting as much time as you can into playing the game as you don't need to be painting much of anything at all anymore. That's a spot many people would like to be at. Sounds like you have enough inventory to create all kinds of games. If you don't have any regular opponents then perhaps the new challenge can be finding some likeminded folks to get games going with. The social interaction and being able to actually use all this stuff you put so much time, money and effort into is only going to be good for your mental health.
And as that may take some time, spin up some cool solo projects and put effort into documenting them for others to see. Show off all your stuff!
Thanks.
I've wondered...and maybe I should spin this into its own post...for people who have "matured" their projects. Do they still have passion to play with those models later on? 10years later on? or does no longer painting and hobbying on a project decrease their drive to play?
Maybe wait for the upcoming post on that before knocking this one off track...
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A therapist isn't necessarily a bad option if you can afford one, but I suspect this board can provide you with quite the support group. :)
Your post made me realise more clearly what I'd been trying to say earlier in the thread. I've never suffered burnout, but I certainly have felt a kind of saturation. There was one point a few years ago where I was really, really enjoying converting small sci-fi warbands in the 40k setting, and looking at each new release for useful conversion ideas. Then it hit me - how many of these warbands do I actually need?* What is the point in yet another one? - and I lost the buzz for it pretty much immediately.
That wasn't burnout though, I came to see I was happy with what I had and didn't need more. I'd reached saturation point. If that's where you're at too, I hope it also feels like a good place to be. It worked for me, anyway.
*64 turned out to be the answer to this question.
I hit on this with Blood Bowl. I love the game. But I'll never paint another full team again.
(famous last words!)
I blogged about it: https://wyrdstonesandtacklezones.com/2024/10/27/blood-bowl-skaven-team-and-the-end/
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Mr. White, that is probably the closest to where I am at too. I think it is a bit of melancholy for a few reasons:
1. My child (and skumgrod) is a few months away from going off to College far, far away
2. My local group (that I am a founder of and built since day 1) is going a different direction than me game-wise
3. I have a lot of miniatures, forces, and period that maybe get out on the table once every other year
4. For career reasons, I might need to move in the next year or two to parts unknown and possibly with much smaller space than I have now
5. Aging parents that will need my assistance soon
All of this "life uncertainty" has left me feeling a bit.... static. I feel a bit hemmed in and trapped in amber until some of it sorts itself out. In the meantime, I am not getting any younger!
This has left me a bit adrift in the wargaming space. RPGs have been much more appealing as they cost me almost nothing and require me to just show up on game night.
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Should this thread be titled “A Wargamer’s Midlife Crisis”? 😀
If you are 50 you should expect 20-30 more years wargaming. Who knows where you will be or what people around you will be playing when you reach 65. My gaming has been transformed by a chance meeting and discovery of a great wargame group in my town. We use figures from everyone’s collections, some dating back to the 70s. If you have the storage space I’d never chuck any painted figures as who knows?
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Should this thread be titled “A Wargamer’s Midlife Crisis”? 😀
If you are 50 you should expect 20-30 more years wargaming. Who knows where you will be or what people around you will be playing when you reach 65. My gaming has been transformed by a chance meeting and discovery of a great wargame group in my town. We use figures from everyone’s collections, some dating back to the 70s. If you have the storage space I’d never chuck any painted figures as who knows?
Lovely. That's the right message, though I understand that these things are often easier said than done when you're in the depths of it.
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I very much agree with Jon - who knows what you will be enthused to play at some point in the future - and having 80-90% of a playable army stashed away is great! This is especially true for historical figures, but still true to a degree for GW stuff.
Easy E - given all those big life changes - I’d not sweat gaming too much and go with whatever feels right at the time - low prep games are great when life is super busy. At other times being able to commit lots of time to gaming is great and you can get back into more involved games.