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Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: FifteensAway on 29 January 2025, 08:31:50 PM
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Title pretty much says it. As a player in an Old West game - or Pony Wars - would you rather see a Hollywood style stockade fort on the table or a more open and historically correct style fort on the table? I know some rules use the former but I'm asking more as a personal preference for you if you had a choice.
If I end up going with the stockade style, I'll probably use this one:
(https://tabletopterrain.com/cdn/shop/files/tabletop-terrain-building-modular-western-fort-old-wild-western-rush-41761579466979.png?v=1717446001&width=700)
Thanks for your responses!
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Hollywood, got to be. Ironically a historic fort probably wouldnt look “realistic”.
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Fort Courage all the way!
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Fort Courage all the way!
Well said, Sir!
Or maybe Fort Apache...
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Is a consensus building? Too soon to say.
But noticed a wee problem in the photo of the fort - the gate is upside down! Guess I better check on that before purchasing if I go that route.
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Yes, Fort Courage all the way.
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Yet another vote for Fort Courage.
I should imagine that the sheer variety in style of historical forts, some of which weren't really forts but encampments would make choosing the Hollywood version an easy choice. Just remember to model it with a wonky lookout tower and maybe a signal cannon with a collapsed wheel.
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Heard back on the gate, the fine folks at Tabletop Terrain confirmed I am correct and have it added to the list of things to fix when time permits.
Perhaps you can sense I am leaning towards a stockade given the photo of the fort I posted. And, so far, the consensus is leaning that way.
But the name? Surely I must name my fort as Fort Discourage - now whether that name is a reflection of the morale of the garrison or what it does to the mindsets of would be malefactors is a matter for, well, interpretation. lol
Here is a site, http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/photos.html (http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/photos.html), about Fort Laramie, first photo shows what sure looks like a stockade. Sixth image is more like what I saw when I visited. Would take a full table to represent what was there - and a large table at that.
On that visit - took a couple of hours to walk the perimeter and check out the surviving (or restored?) buildings. Was pretty cool to experience. Same trip I visited both the Greasy Grass/Little Bighorn battlefield and the Rosebud site amongst other old west key locations.
Lookout tower already owned and awaiting assembly and painting, wonky optional. Not sure about the gun with a collapsed wheel - but, who knows, such things fit with my sense of humor. And I have spare guns and spare wheels so you never know.
If you haven't visited yet, you should spend a few minutes here: https://whiskeyhills.blogspot.com (https://whiskeyhills.blogspot.com). That is my Old West miniatures blog - or blather as the case may be. But it does give a sense of where things are shifting towards as I work hard to reduce total number of figures to paint, great progress so far.
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Hope Cat doesn't get too upset with CapnJim. :o
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Capture the zeitgeist. Call it Fort Coup-Rage. ;)
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Hollywood style for sure.
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Problem I have with forts, they are too well fortified.
Your zulus, Indians, Nathan's, whatever aren't getting in tall thick walls and stuff.
I like making old, repaired or makeshift forts, that have weaknesses and are a real challenge to hold. Otherwise, the bad guy players won't attack, and you just sit there, maybe master of your domain, but hardly worth gaming...
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Point well taken, Smokeyrone. However, in most Old West games the fort is more 'scenery' than an objective and as such, if using the model above, it is about 200 square inches in table area so on a 5' x 6' table (very big game in 15 mm Old West, but not so big for a Pony Wars battle) takes up a bit less than 5% of the table. Your comment did get me to take a closer look at the model to see how it could be set up to have vulnerabilities, though - in the event it does become an objective.
Well, the fort does have a more significant role in that it is often the starting point for patrols/rescues or the place beleaguered parties are trying to reach - and in the latter case the fort's "invincibility" is essential to those trying to get there. Imagine the depths of despair they'd feel to arrive at the fort and find themselves still in danger!
Easy ways to make a fort vulnerable: poorly sited and overlooked by good sniper points, old dry wood that can too easily catch fire.
But mostly starting point/destination point - and 'purdy' to look at.
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Problem I have with forts, they are too well fortified.
Your zulus, Indians, Nathan's, whatever aren't getting in tall thick walls and stuff.
I like making old, repaired or makeshift forts, that have weaknesses and are a real challenge to hold. Otherwise, the bad guy players won't attack, and you just sit there, maybe master of your domain, but hardly worth gaming...
I am with you on this. Nothing so boring to game as assaults on forts and castles in any period or setting except maybe the siege reducing defenses itself that leads up to that assault.
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Forts are definitely good as destinations and spawning points for relief forces.
Infiltrator, traitor, cannonball, or dynamite to open the gate also puts them into play.
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Mine's Fort Starke, and it's the old offering from Airfix. Cavalry forts have to look like them in a John Ford production!
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=145102.0;attach=220127;image)
:-*
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Harry, that fort feels it may have something in common with the Tardis!
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Mine's Fort Starke, and it's the old offering from Airfix.
Can't go wrong with any of the Airfix forts!
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That fort has graced the fields of glory since 1970. In my imagination it's much bigger on the inside, than it is on the outside!
:o
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Wow, Harry, now that is a "veteran" fort. And we are all awaiting more of your delightful battle reports when you have the figures ready.
Alas, closest I come to any Airfix fort is a castle I assembled for our wedding cake way back in 1999. Last year the wife finally turned it back over to me to use for gaming - only took 25 years. :o
So, given the range of opinions - and the reality that forts are rarely if ever an objective in Old West / Pony Wars games - it is settled, I will acquire a stockade fort. Will certainly look at options before deciding but leaning towards that Tabletop Terrain item.
And hopefully many a patrol will exit and return (or not) to the fort and many a weary pilgrim seek shelter from the storms of arrows and other misfortunes.
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Alas, closest I come to any Airfix fort is a castle I assembled for our wedding cake way back in 1999. Last year the wife finally turned it back over to me to use for gaming - only took 25 years. :o
Shades of Miss Haversham in Great Expectations. I now have visions of the Airfix Sherwood Castle covered with cobwebs, still sitting on its marzipan base, that rats have gnawed upon. lol
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Shades of Miss Haversham in Great Expectations. I now have visions of the Airfix Sherwood Castle covered with cobwebs, still sitting on its marzipan base, that rats have gnawed upon. lol
Er - that's a disturbing visual...
Wow, Harry, now that is a "veteran" fort. And we are all awaiting more of your delightful battle reports when you have the figures ready.
Alas, closest I come to any Airfix fort is a castle I assembled for our wedding cake way back in 1999. Last year the wife finally turned it back over to me to use for gaming - only took 25 years. :o
So, given the range of opinions - and the reality that forts are rarely if ever an objective in Old West / Pony Wars games - it is settled, I will acquire a stockade fort. Will certainly look at options before deciding but leaning towards that Tabletop Terrain item.
And hopefully many a patrol will exit and return (or not) to the fort and many a weary pilgrim seek shelter from the storms of arrows and other misfortunes.
Didn't have the Airfix fort as a young'un...we did have the plastic Marx 54mm Fort Apache, though...
And good choice on the fort style. They definitely did have stockade forts out west - had a chance to visit the Fort Phil Kearney fort site in Wyoming a couple years ago - it was a BIG stockade fort...
Looking forward to the day you can show us your Fort Discourage... :D
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Er - that's a disturbing visual...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCgbVNChs9I
The 1946 version is arguably even more disturbing. It's one of Dicken's darker works.
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Dickens, Schmickens. Back to the Old West.
My thinkerator decided to kick into gear and recalled I already have this stockade - for a very long time, just never assembled/painted:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjMkelrZPG4pOu1hR4nSmS9oRgV7MX0Lc4MQW9x8aASI_N2g6OptjZwf47SIHta_c2I7ro-Es_VnZgi9F1NK5ZvMzJM6p2fjN03DXHsJXb-WGo4JCeqbf_HP2PYRIdGgk41ZXNObH7bBN0qwTMihBarHg_2vjF-UVQPicPgvxv2qZ2nSRTxTtO-Qf3VqvPX/w640-h480/IMG_9282.jpg)
And another view:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgS9ItOCWwcK_e1X_3ir4ucVHLwiKpRn53FRyUAhSKKOCMXFs3ax7yrtZKcJVUN2At9IU-Fq2SHbq7VgyiFOT1EegoW6O0d7bcfFyEYj6zcHbp-JEPJe6gK3OoFjrzq3qvqH4fDa2al80AnDuKn6qxwqxpQiScMkffcLZB4qRbrDIHr_n6BJRo2KYIaAN90/w480-h640/IMG_9281.jpg)
The stockade and towers are from Stone Mountain Miniatuares, the building from Blue Moon's FIW range. Would take some effort to make it work but that is part of the fun - and it is already paid for. And easily expandable with readily available bamboo skewers. Have to make the firing platforms a little wider. Perhaps even possible to make the gate swing open or closed with a bit of extra effort. Tower roofs are removable.
What do y'all think? Will it work?
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That looks good!
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Alas, closest I come to any Airfix fort is a castle I assembled for our wedding cake way back in 1999. Last year the wife finally turned it back over to me to use for gaming - only took 25 years. :o
Well, the Castle's still OK, but the marzipan's turned green with age!
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=139405.0;attach=188053;image)
::)
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Just do an alternative Old West where the US army was based in castles!
Could be cool.
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Yes, but which castle? We have three in California: Hearst Castle along the coast, Vikingsholm up near Lake Tahoe, or the Disney castle in Anaheim. At least those are the ones I know of - unless you account for the many dotted about miniature golf courses!
I'm considering ordering a second set of the stockade walls from Stone Mountain and use some to modify to fit the towers and some to expand - but still want to adjust for the other corners without blockhouses with at least one a platform for artillery. Another set also gives me an additional gate and I like the idea of two gates for some reason. But first I'll spend some time with those bamboo skewers since I have some - somewhere - around the homestead. And I will include the signal tower inside the fort. Going to need to add a few ladders around the fort, maybe a stairway, along with various and sundry bits of scenic scatter.
On an unrelated note, digging through the figure stash and I found a couple of doctors operating on patients on boards on top of barrels along with some nurses and others. Not sure there were ever any female nurses on army posts of the west at the time but I'm sure the occasional army wife lent a hand here and there. Now all I need is a scenario to use them - some sort of desperate need to rescue a patient who has critical information for saving the fort/the patrol/the lost pilgrims, etc. I'm pretty sure I can dig a few sets of stretcher bearer parties out of the ACW casualty and medical stash. Perhaps an Old West M.A.S.H. unit? "Ambulance coming in going hell for leather! Get ready to operate." And, yes, I have a horse drawn ambulance or two in the ACW stuff. If nothing else, a nice visual point of interest on the gaming table.
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Harold and Kumar vote for White Castle.
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I say Bannerman Castle. It's where all the guns and ammo are, plus it's a super cool location.
Actually, an early 20th C raid on Bannerman Castle might be a fun Pulp scenario.
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Taking this back to the original question, I am a little confused. Coming from the other side of the pond, the only historical US forts I am familiar with are the three on the Bozeman Trail that featured in Red Cloud's War. My understanding was that all three were stockaded. Pardon my ignorance, but does this mean most army outposts in the Indian Wars not so protected? That seems asking for trouble lol.
And I'd go for a nice wooden stockade for gaming purposes.
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I depends on the time period and location of course but my understanding is that during the plains Indian wars and especially in the south west most forts were just a collection of building laid out. Not the wooden fence surrounded type you see in F-Troop.
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I depends on the time period and location of course but my understanding is that during the plains Indian wars and especially in the south west most forts were just a collection of building laid out. Not the wooden fence surrounded type you see in F-Troop.
Cavalry forts of any kind, Indians avoided like the smallpox!
Though I recall reading, in Red Cloud's war, about one small raid. A heavy snowdrift banked up agin the stockade wall, allowing a War Party to sneak over the wall. If memory serves, as soon as the alarm got raised, the Redskins legged it.
:o
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Cavalry forts of any kind, Indians avoided like the smallpox!
Though I recall reading, in Red Cloud's war, about one small raid. A heavy snowdrift banked up agin the stockade wall, allowing a War Party to sneak over the wall. If memory serves, as soon as the alarm got raised, the Redskins legged it.
:o
I'm sure I recall reading how Sitting Bull's Sioux attacked a fort (can't recall which one) in the 1860s but interestingly, the garrison formed a giant skirmish line outside the fort's environs to fight off the Lakota warriors. I'll have to go dig out my books and find out when/where this was but it's interesting that the soldiers felt better about fighting outside the fort's boundary - guessing there wasn't a stockade!
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The only US Army stockaded forts in the Old West of the post-ACW era I can think of are the three burned after being abandoned after Red Cloud's War: Fort Phil Kearny, Fort Reno, and Fort C.F. Smith. The rest I am aware of were "open" posts in the sense they lacked a stockade.l.
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There's yer names right there. Fort Phil Silvers, Fort Circus Circus* and Fort W.H. Smith.
*Rolls of the tongue better than Fort Pepermill Reno and it's definitely an impove on Fort Craps or even Fort Roulette.
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Fort Boone in the AWI had some drama.
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it always bemused me that they would ship that many logs to the arse end of nowhere...
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Well, as a pretty sturdy general rule, they would only build a log stockaded fort within the vicinity of a ready supply of logs. Perhaps why so few in the desert southwest methinks where wood was reserved for roof supports when building.
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Close to a rail line would also count as a ready supply.