Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Frugalmax on 26 February 2025, 05:12:06 PM
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Hi folks,
Every once in a while I get excited by the prospect of a game that may check all of the boxes (as in, "Finally the game I've always wanted!") and from the initial tidbits online "Guards of Traitor's Toll" by Grey for Now games got my imagination going (https://greyfornow.com/en-us/products/guards-of-traitors-toll-starter-set (https://greyfornow.com/en-us/products/guards-of-traitors-toll-starter-set)).
I've always liked miniatures games that overlap with roleplaying elements, such as the old Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, and Mordheim, and more recently Rangers of Shadow Deep and Frostgrave. Guards of Traitor's Toll looks like it's a little skirmish-y, a little role-play-ey (can you believe it, folks, English is his first language!?!) and has a vibe kind of like the urban adventures of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Then there's some great looking new miniatures from Wargames Atlantic (and I definitely don't need more plastic sprues in my life but on the other hand maybe I do?).
I could always craft my own game from the myriad rules I've absorbed over the years (which is what usually happens in our gaming group anyway), but there's definitely an appeal to paying somebody $65 to do it all for you. I'm wondering if anyone has preordered the game and checked out or played using the pdf rulebook? With all of the cards and things does the game feel more like a board game than a skirmish-roleplay-campaign? Any experience or thoughts or wild speculation you want to share?
Cheers!
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Not played it yet, but I have played Test of Honour which uses fundamentally the same rules and plays really well. A friend of mine has preordered everything for GoTT though, so I'll be giving it a go ASAP.
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I am following the project with great interest.
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You can get a free PDF overview here - https://greyfornow.com/products/guards-of-traitors-toll-gameplay-overview-pdf
It's not a boardgame, the semi-coop play between players is going down well with playtesters and it plays really nicely as a solo. The rulebook includes a linked set of scenarios but making up your own is really easy too. The cards drive the scenarios but also make sure that every game is different depending on the plots that come up.
The dice mean that you can't always do exactly the move you want, so keeps it quite a tactical game. Having 'civilians' milling about and then one of them suddenly becoming a suspect (or as I like to think of them 'target') gives it a feel that is very different to the norm.
Graham also has some great additions in mind, like he's done with Test of Honour and 0200 Hours.
Oh and yeah, the WA plastics look great and will no doubt have othe uses.
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Thanks all for the replies! I have checked out the overview pdf, though that was what made me wonder if it was more like a boardgame than a skirmish game (though who's to say a boardgame can't be a skirmish game and vice versa? I have no idea what I'm talking about).
I am very tempted! That said, I think I "should" wait until I see some reviews of the game before spending the money. I have too many games that don't get played enough. But we'll see! Maybe I'll get it and review it for the Cheap Dragon Show... that would be totally justifiable, right? Then others could learn from my mistakes! Ah, it's good to be altruistic... Kidding. Anyway I'll keep an eye on it as well!
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I think the only limiting factor for this - and games like it, is simply the terrain.
People often describe skirmish games as more affordable, but I find it to be the opposite. With more rules, intricacies, etc. you end up often building a much more detailed table/city scape to play on. My Old West tables are superb but cost a fortune!
I don't know how many buildings are actually properly required for a game...but that could be a bunch of time/money/storage to consider. Some people are going to pick up the game to realize they only own two cabins and four trees. lol
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I think the only limiting factor for this - and games like it, is simply the terrain.
That's a really good point that I hadn't thought too much about- I'm in the fortunate (foolish?) position of having played fantasy miniatures games since the early 90's, so I have a shelf full of buildings already (which range wildly in style and quality, oh well), but if someone were just starting they would need to make or buy a good amount of terrain to make a city. I'm sure you could have just as much fun by playing with a 2-D map or some cardboard rectangles representing the footprints of buildings, but the game does seem to lend itself towards tall buildings on the table.
This got me thinking of past games where we've played with more tightly packed vertical terrain and there is a bit of compromise that has to happen between playability and the "coolness" of the terrain. A tight alleyway between tall buildings is very cinematic and immersive- but also a pain to move your models in! Good food for thought, thanks!
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On a 3x3foot table you need about 6 buildings (not interiors), a few market stalls, and a bunch of crates and barrels type scatter. The below was a playtest.
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Maybe I'll get it and review it for the Cheap Dragon Show... that would be totally justifiable, right? Then others could learn from my mistakes!
I vote "YES" to this, mainly because I want another episode of the Cheap Dragon Show... ;) :D
Mike Demana
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I vote "YES" to this, mainly because I want another episode of the Cheap Dragon Show... ;) :D
Mike Demana
Me too.
I'd watch that dragon reading a shopping list.
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This game looks like fun and new plastics are good. It is a like an opposite Guilders game.
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Thanks for the photo and the insight, @Dean!
@mikedemana and @Spinal Tap, more of the Cheap Dragon Show is on the way! Very glad to hear you enjoy it!
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I picked up the rules today. $16 CAD. Read them, thought they looked interesting. But then I asked on the Facebook group about access to the cards and characters to actually play the game. Was told they might be available later, but no cost or timeframe. Soured me a little bit on the game.
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@Burgundavia- that's too bad. Does the rulebook at least show the sides of the dice so you could proxy a regular D6 (ie, 1=result X, 2= result Y, etc.)? I'm surprised they wouldn't put the cards as a sheet in the back of the pdf. Maybe it's something you could reach out to the designer/company about, as it seems reasonable that if you buy the rulebook they should give you the stuff you need to play.
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Honestly, I avoid all games with special dice like the plague...well, except Saga, which you technically don't need and can easily proxy if you don't want to buy the special command dice. But for dice needed to do the basic movement, shooting, combat, etc., I say no way. To me it seems like nothing more than a money grab.
My friend ran the Fallout official game for us once and we all roundly panned it. We spent every turn looking up what each of the stupid symbols mean. I felt bad since he'd obviously spent a lot of money on it all. But hey, he can use the figs for post-apoc games using other rules... :D
Just my opinion...
Mike Demana
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@Burgundavia- that's too bad. Does the rulebook at least show the sides of the dice so you could proxy a regular D6 (ie, 1=result X, 2= result Y, etc.)? I'm surprised they wouldn't put the cards as a sheet in the back of the pdf. Maybe it's something you could reach out to the designer/company about, as it seems reasonable that if you buy the rulebook they should give you the stuff you need to play.
The biggest issue is the lack of cards. Those are not included in the PDF, nor is there a timeframe to release them (I asked on the official FB group). Considering getting a refund of my rule purchase, to be honest.
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Feel the need to step in here. The dice are directional, so trying to replace them with a standard D6 simply won’t work I’m afraid.
Oh and looking at the Grey for Now website, the other two games 0200 hours, and Test of Honour, they do sell card and dice sets, so as it’s just at pre-release right now, I imagine that will be there later.
Just saying.
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Oh and looking at the Grey for Now website, the other two games 0200 hours, and Test of Honour, they do sell card and dice sets, so as it’s just at pre-release right now, I imagine that will be there later.
Just saying.
Right, but why release the rules for purchase when you can't actually play?
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The Dice are available from Northstar
https://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=19056 (https://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=19056)
Of course exotic Dice and Cards are to protect their IP.
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The Dice are available from Northstar
https://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=19056 (https://www.northstarfigures.com/prod.php?prod=19056)
Of course exotic Dice and Cards are to protect their IP.
on pre order at Northstar... so doesn't help the original issue of the game not having the required dice to play it...
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on pre order at Northstar... so doesn't help the original issue of the game not having the required dice to play it...
Well, the game hasn't released yet so I'm not sure quite what you expect?
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But the PDF of the rules is available now.
Which doesn’t seem to be much use without these other components
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Well, the game hasn't released yet so I'm not sure quite what you expect?
When most games release the rules for a cost, you can actually play the game right then and there. Not so much with these ones.
I play Gaslands all the time. It requires both special dice and templates. But both were available with the rules as purchased (in the case of the templates you could print them off, the dice you could proxy).
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But you bought the rules on pre-release. And these requirements for the dice and cards were very clear before you bought the rules. You chose to jump in early, the other components will be available when the game is actually released.
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But you bought the rules on pre-release. And these requirements for the dice and cards were very clear before you bought the rules. You chose to jump in early, the other components will be available when the game is actually released.
Then tell us when the PDFs of the cards will be available. It's a really simple thing. Overall, deeply soured on this game because of basic communications failures (and I love the genre and concept)
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Looking forward to them, even picked up some eBay pieces for characters, plus a 3d pack of terrain pieces.
Lined up for the release, I will be adding it to French Wargame Holidays evening games.
Cheers
Matt
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Honestly, I avoid all games with special dice like the plague...well, except Saga, which you technically don't need and can easily proxy if you don't want to buy the special command dice. But for dice needed to do the basic movement, shooting, combat, etc., I say no way. To me it seems like nothing more than a money grab.
My friend ran the Fallout official game for us once and we all roundly panned it. We spent every turn looking up what each of the stupid symbols mean. I felt bad since he'd obviously spent a lot of money on it all. But hey, he can use the figs for post-apoc games using other rules... :D
Just my opinion...
Mike Demana
I've heard it said that if after the session, the players stand around talking about the rules, it's a bad game. If you talk about the game, it's a good set of rules.
Exceptions and exaggeration aside, we've found that to be accurate.
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I got my copy from North Star (with the heavy Elf Infantry release).
My first problem is the number of figures you need to play (even though it is a skirmish game).
You need 20 civilians (there are sufficient supplied in the box) plus your guards.
That is about the same as 500 points in Baron's War.
That set has some plastic market stalls (alternative build of the barricades) that might be of use.
I have not started building any of the figures. Deciding on what to build for the guards is complicated by the stats and points being on the cards, so it seems like a faff to begin
One minor irritant with the figures, I wish they had not been made with puddle bases, they would look really cool on Renedra cobbled bases
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I've been following the articles in the last few Wargames Illustrated, but it was Mad Lord's Snapcase's plan to set his game in Ankh Morpork that pushed me into the abyss - https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=149060.0
Well, almost. The local show is on next Saturday, so it's on my to-buy list for that.
I backed the Midlam City Guard KS in 2022, so I at least have one watch painted up. I am short of civilans, but the ones in the box do look nice.
Fingers are crossed, and at least it's giving me the opportunity to fill in some gaps in my collection.
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The supplied bases work fine if you just fill level with the lip and then paint on some stones. No need for any fancy bases
(https://i.imgur.com/SFohHSR.jpg)
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Or you could just cut the bases off and glue them onto cobbled bases. I did it with a lot of the Frostgrave figures, although I mostly used the paved bases (and snow basing!), also did the same thing with Perry, Gripping Beast, Wargames Atlantic and GW - not too difficult with a sharp knife and a hard surface.
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I did wonder about cutting them off the bases.
Not sure if the WA plastic is amenable to cutting with a knife, I was wondering about a razor saw, which I have used previously.
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I haven't tackled the GoTT minis, but I have quite a few other WA minis and they all come with puddle bases. They're no more difficult to remove with clippers and a knife than any others.
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They're really not too difficult - the trick is just to keep the blade angled to you only cut the base off, not cutting through part of the foot!
I generally reserve the razor saw (or the saw-toothed steel cutting disc for my rotary drill) for metal figures that I want to remove from bases.
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I got the game for my son as a present, lets see what he says
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I have to admit to a lot of interest in the game and its premise, but custom dice and cards put me off somewhat. I've been heavily burned on that front by Fallout: Wasteland Warfare.
How cluttered with these geegaws is the game? Would I find myself compelled to get the expansions to get the additional plot cards and such?
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I'm guessing "yes" - https://greyfornow.com/collections/guards-of-traitors-toll
The expansion comes with 90 new cards, including new plot ones.
I'm still planning to buy it, but I agree it is an annoying approach
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I have to admit to a lot of interest in the game and its premise, but custom dice and cards put me off somewhat. I've been heavily burned on that front by Fallout: Wasteland Warfare.
How cluttered with these geegaws is the game? Would I find myself compelled to get the expansions to get the additional plot cards and such?
Anything the Mad Lord does is fascinating and I will eagerly read and enjoy, but I admit it would be the above reservation that I would have to actually purchasing the game myself...
Mike Demana
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After seeing that the 02 Hundred Hours expansions eventually have gewgaw-only releases, I gave in and ordered the Guards bundle. This will give me everything out now, and hopefully any neat stuff that comes in further expansions will be purchasable without a box full of minis with some patience.
It'll be months yet before I'm done remodeling and have my painting table back, but I wanted to go ahead and have this game locked in given all the looming uncertainty at the moment. It just hit too many items on my gaming checklist.
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I got the starter set before Easter and had ago at the solo training mission.
I think the game is certainly interesting - BUT - a lot of it I would term "simulation" rather than "playing". To elaborate, your guards move in a randomized manner meant to simulate them walking about and patrolling. You have limited control over them UNITL something draws their attention. Only then do you have control over their actions. I think this might have been necessary to fulfil the premise of the game.
The next thing worth discussing is the identification of suspects. Basically, as the game unravels, players have to identify certain miniatures based on indicators. These can be equipment, activity or just a general vibe of the miniature. Say you need to identify an entertainer - that could be a miniature playing a flute, juggling or looking like its mid-dance. There is a big scope for discussion whether a certain miniature fulfils the identification criteria, so for 2+ player games, I can see this becoming either a great and fun moment or a big point of contention. I very much enjoyed that aspect, but again, I only played solo.
As for custom cards and dice, I think their use is justified given the degree of simulation needed to really convey the idea of these being groups of guards on patrol on a random Sunday evening. The playthrough I did really felt like I was controlling such a patrol, so I am okay with them.
Overall, this is an interesting game and I am definitely keen on playing it more. It does require quite a bit of scenery to really pull it off, and an investement in painting the civilians, but I reckon it's worth trying.
I have separate issues and praises for the Wargames Atlantic miniatures that are attached to this project, mainly WA having parts that didn't make it onto the sprues on their promotional material, inside the rulebook and even on the box art.
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We played through the training mission last night. I’ve not painted the civilians yet but I have loads of suitable figures from various collections.
The busy village of Gallows Halt
(https://i.imgur.com/zZ90QyV.jpg)
Another view
(https://i.imgur.com/FQHqOK1.jpg)
The game plays well, although the business of identifying and moving civilians twice a turn is a bit fiddly. Planning to speed that up with cards with a picture of each character with their name, then you just draw a card. The cards will also go on the plot cards when they becomes suspects, allies, or people you can get stuff from.
The guards found the contraband, killed the violent suspect after a long struggle, subdued the sneaking suspect, but the fleeing one got away.
(https://i.imgur.com/VjbMhCb.jpg)
Enjoyed it a lot. There is a real narrative, RPG style to it, and the multi-player co-op play works well. You are all trying to arrest suspects, but you want your team to get the credit.
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Nice looking game.
And "Gallows Halt"... Perfect name for a village.
''S'not the drop that gets you. It's the sudden stop at the end."