Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: acctingman on 23 March 2025, 06:44:10 PM
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Hello all
So, I've been playing Star Wars Legion over the last couple years, and while the game is "ok" it's the the Star Wars game I want. Beyond the numerous issues I have with Legion, it's too much of a skirmish game. I want a BIG Star Wars game. I want several hundred troopers on the board, multiple walkers, a ton of speeder bikes, lots of laser turrets, several airspeeders....
This cannot be done in Legion scale without the table looking like a parking lot. I've been diving into the 15mm options and it looks like most things can be found in that scale either the 3d printed route or the several 15mm manufactures out there and the micromachine/action fleet world.
I've done a little bit or research for rule sets and the two that I keep seeing pop up are Xenos Rampant and Fistful of Lead: Galactic Heroes.
So, my question to the folks here is....which do you prefer?
Some of my requirements are:
Are there stats for characters and vehicles?
Some depth to combat (I like the flavor text of abilities, weapon upgrades, force powers in SW Legion)
Can the rules handle a large engagement? It looks like Xenos is more skirmish. If that's the case, it's out.
Any other rules people think I should take a peek at? Any rules should have some write ups for Star Wars characters/vehicles (player made is fine)
Appreciate any tips/advice.
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Hi there acctingman,
Firstly hello :D
Now your question, Fist Full of Lead (FFOL) Galactic Heroes is a proper skirmish game of crew's fighting it out and it is good, but it's not what you are after I think? May I suggest you look at FFOL Bigger Battles instead which is squad based, but I think that you may struggle to run the amount of troops that you want with Bigger Battles or Xenos Rampant?
The other options I can think of are, Hammer's Slammers, Quadrant 13, Warhammer 40K 3rd edition or maybe a reskin of the latest bolt action WW2 rules.
I am sure that others on here will give you plenty of suggestions, so good luck ;) :D
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Hello,
I have played Xenos rampant and I would call it small company sized game. There are no separate character stats, unless you make a unit represented by a lone model. That is entirely possible. I think all the rampant systems are good. I found the customization with Xenos was ultimately limited.
I would look into One Page Rules (OPR). I think it may fit the battlefield look you are describing. It does have characters, monsters, flyers, and vehicles. Ultimately it is a light 40K system that can handle a good amount of models on the board. The look can be expanded further if you multi base and one base = one model. They have caster rules which can fill the Jedi power area. Also with Patreaon you can access their custom army builder allowing you to make your own pointed army list. Of course that is if worry about balance. I tweak stats from the base game all the time.
for models I would visit Wakes design
https://wakesemporium.gumroad.com/ (https://wakesemporium.gumroad.com/)
Most of my 15mm models are scaled up 6mm/8mm
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One model units for characters in XR should work. It has for DR for a decade and XR has the same ST point rule in mind.
For larger blocks of troops, instead of each model being 1 ST point you could have each model be 1/2 a point or 1/3 or something. Then you have blocks of 20 or 30 models in a unit instead of 10. You?re also removing 2 or 3 models for each 1 ST point lost. It should work.
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I think, for me, I'd need a set of rules that someone has already created stats for Star Wars characters/vehicles. I think this precludes every rules set I've read about other than Fistful of Lead:GH.
There might be another set of rules that someone has created SW stats for, but I haven't come across anything. I'll keep looking.
Thanks for the replies.
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Second the Wake?s figures - my mate has 2 big Star Wars armies of these printed in 10mm.
The rules we used were the Mantic Sci Fi ones Firefight - these mapped fairly closely to Star Wars units, including adding in named characters like Jedi and Sith.
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Second the Wake?s figures - my mate has 2 big Star Wars armies of these printed in 10mm.
The rules we used were the Mantic Sci Fi ones Firefight - these mapped fairly closely to Star Wars units, including adding in named characters like Jedi and Sith.
The issue I have with 10mm is I don't think anyone does an AT-AT scaled down to 10mm and I know there are a few plastic kits/toys that are more 15-18mm scale. Also, wouldn't some of the vehicles like speederbikes be fragile at 10mm?
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Some people (I don't actually know who so can't provide somewhere to look) have created 40k codexes for the Star Wars and prequel factiins. It might take a bit of searching but I'm pretty sure they're still around as pdf's.
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The issue I have with 10mm is I don't think anyone does an AT-AT scaled down to 10mm and I know there are a few plastic kits/toys that are more 15-18mm scale. Also, wouldn't some of the vehicles like speederbikes be fragile at 10mm?
Most stuff was multi based - a squad to a base - but all seems robust enough. We have loads of 6mm Epic stuff 3d printed too.
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There are Star Wars lists, units etc for FUBAR
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I will second LouieN and recommend One Page Rules Grimdark Future. We have used them for large scale Star Wars, and they worked well.
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Have you looked at Epic Armageddon - big battles. 6mm but you can use your 15mms - I found some links where a guy sketched out Star Wars lists -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouetg04nra5kr2NWA4vzX9N0Ue43FYM9gSWB1FzeC00/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.tz7bd436x2vs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouetg04nra5kr2NWA4vzX9N0Ue43FYM9gSWB1FzeC00/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.tz7bd436x2vs)
and
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1khZQfzvygD4tXN0n6ZOk_ReoK8dglc4kiWUUXocqlcA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.fzhz8cszww3u (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1khZQfzvygD4tXN0n6ZOk_ReoK8dglc4kiWUUXocqlcA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.fzhz8cszww3u)
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Maybe Laserstorm by Nordic Weasel Games?
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/476399/LaserStorm-2nd-edition (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/476399/LaserStorm-2nd-edition)
It's set up as a Epic-type 3-6mm game, but you can probably adjust it for 15mm. Army lists are buy basic troops + weapons/upgrades, or use the points builder to design your own units/armies.
Haven't seen any Star Wars stuff done with it before, but if your goal is hundreds of troops on the table, your best bet is probably some sort of Epic-style, fireteam-as-single-model scale game.
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Have you looked at Epic Armageddon - big battles. 6mm but you can use your 15mms - I found some links where a guy sketched out Star Wars lists -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouetg04nra5kr2NWA4vzX9N0Ue43FYM9gSWB1FzeC00/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.tz7bd436x2vs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouetg04nra5kr2NWA4vzX9N0Ue43FYM9gSWB1FzeC00/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.tz7bd436x2vs)
and
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1khZQfzvygD4tXN0n6ZOk_ReoK8dglc4kiWUUXocqlcA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.fzhz8cszww3u (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1khZQfzvygD4tXN0n6ZOk_ReoK8dglc4kiWUUXocqlcA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.fzhz8cszww3u)
:o Well that's a strange feeling. Came here wondering if I should suggest my epic armageddon mod... But graydebowen already linked to them!
Obviously I think its a great fit for the clone wars specifically. For the era of the Empire, I'm less certain. I'm not all that deep into the extended universe and from the movies it always felt like Hoth was supposed to be the biggest pitched ground battle of the rebellion. So I have a hard time envisioning what the units and formation on the rebellion side would be, in such a game.
But if you say you want BIG battles, Epic Armageddon does that in spades for sure! A normal middle sized formation of infantry in the system has something like 12 stands of infantry, with about 5 figures on each. (number on base does not matter for the rules). and depending on the army etc it can easily go up to 30-40 bases and you might field 2-3 formations of that kind plus half a dozen smaller support formations.
Which is to say, the engine can handle big battles quite well. The style of combat is that 40k flavor, hints of cold war concepts (pop up attacks with helicopters, I mean skimmers) but the maneuvering closer to ww2 or even napoelonics. To me that illogical but cinematic style fits well with the clone wars as it looks in my head.
You aren't the first to ask for Empire era army lists either, I'd be happy to help on it I just don't know enough about the period to lay the foundations for them!
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:o Well that's a strange feeling. Came here wondering if I should suggest my epic armageddon mod... But graydebowen already linked to them!
Obviously I think its a great fit for the clone wars specifically. For the era of the Empire, I'm less certain. I'm not all that deep into the extended universe and from the movies it always felt like Hoth was supposed to be the biggest pitched ground battle of the rebellion. So I have a hard time envisioning what the units and formation on the rebellion side would be, in such a game.
But if you say you want BIG battles, Epic Armageddon does that in spades for sure! A normal middle sized formation of infantry in the system has something like 12 stands of infantry, with about 5 figures on each. (number on base does not matter for the rules). and depending on the army etc it can easily go up to 30-40 bases and you might field 2-3 formations of that kind plus half a dozen smaller support formations.
Which is to say, the engine can handle big battles quite well. The style of combat is that 40k flavor, hints of cold war concepts (pop up attacks with helicopters, I mean skimmers) but the maneuvering closer to ww2 or even napoelonics. To me that illogical but cinematic style fits well with the clone wars as it looks in my head.
You aren't the first to ask for Empire era army lists either, I'd be happy to help on it I just don't know enough about the period to lay the foundations for them!
So, is Epic Armageddon it's own stand alone rules?
I know the original trilogy characters and vehicles well enough.
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So, is Epic Armageddon it's own stand alone rules?
I know the original trilogy characters and vehicles well enough.
Ok so. Epic Armageddon (a warhammer 40k 6mm spinoff for those not in the know).
Has its own complete ruleset and quite active community who have kept the rules available for free online with GW's blessing ever since the company stopped supporting it somewhere in the 2000's IIRC?
You can find the full game rules here:
https://tp.net-armageddon.org/rules/
And a list of the current "tournament approved" army lists here for reference.
https://tp.net-armageddon.org/
do note that there are no unit creation rules here. New army lists are still created, tested and balanced actively by the community though. But there are no fast and hard systems for it. My clone wars lists are absolutely a shot in the dark. I've played quite a bit of Epic, but not with or against all types of armies and still not nearly enough to have a perfect sense of balance, so I'm constantly tweaking those lists as I re-consider their appropriate stats and point costs, and some community vets on the taccom discord are helpful enough to give pointers at times as well.
My personal approach has been to see what role and niche a unit fulfills in the star wars universe and use 40k units with similar battlefield functions as a starting point. My b2 super battle droids have the same armor save as space marine terminators for example. The B2's are the toughest infantry unit during the clone wars, so they get the highest stat there. Are they equally as tough as 40k terminator marines? Impossible to say. the weapons in both universes are so very different and fiction will depict either as near indestructible or easily killed depending on the needs of the story so I don't worry about it too much.
In my experience its a mistake to try and directly copy over whatever starwars legions does for their abilities, but it can still be a good point of reference. When two unit types in the same army seem very similar at first glance, it can be useful to see what legions does to distinguish them for example.
I would also add that Epic Armageddon is not a "hero hammer" game, unlike so many of its warhammer compatriots. Characters are a part of the game, but they are added to other units of infantry or vehicles and add one or two attacks and some special rules at most. Named characters with extreme stats who dominate the spotlight of the battle are just not a thing. Amazingly even such vaunted titles such as "space marine chapter master" are often boiled down to one or two special rules they provide to their host unit and that's all.
As for force powers, 40k of course has similar stuff with psychers, but again depending on their focus they might provide a simple special rule, or an extra attack types or two.
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Ok so. Epic Armageddon (a warhammer 40k 6mm spinoff for those not in the know).
Has its own complete ruleset and quite active community who have kept the rules available for free online with GW's blessing ever since the company stopped supporting it somewhere in the 2000's IIRC?
You can find the full game rules here:
https://tp.net-armageddon.org/rules/
And a list of the current "tournament approved" army lists here for reference.
https://tp.net-armageddon.org/
do note that there are no unit creation rules here. New army lists are still created, tested and balanced actively by the community though. But there are no fast and hard systems for it. My clone wars lists are absolutely a shot in the dark. I've played quite a bit of Epic, but not with or against all types of armies and still not nearly enough to have a perfect sense of balance, so I'm constantly tweaking those lists as I re-consider their appropriate stats and point costs, and some community vets on the taccom discord are helpful enough to give pointers at times as well.
My personal approach has been to see what role and niche a unit fulfills in the star wars universe and use 40k units with similar battlefield functions as a starting point. My b2 super battle droids have the same armor save as space marine terminators for example. The B2's are the toughest infantry unit during the clone wars, so they get the highest stat there. Are they equally as tough as 40k terminator marines? Impossible to say. the weapons in both universes are so very different and fiction will depict either as near indestructible or easily killed depending on the needs of the story so I don't worry about it too much.
In my experience its a mistake to try and directly copy over whatever starwars legions does for their abilities, but it can still be a good point of reference. When two unit types in the same army seem very similar at first glance, it can be useful to see what legions does to distinguish them for example.
I would also add that Epic Armageddon is not a "hero hammer" game, unlike so many of its warhammer compatriots. Characters are a part of the game, but they are added to other units of infantry or vehicles and add one or two attacks and some special rules at most. Named characters with extreme stats who dominate the spotlight of the battle are just not a thing. Amazingly even such vaunted titles such as "space marine chapter master" are often boiled down to one or two special rules they provide to their host unit and that's all.
As for force powers, 40k of course has similar stuff with psychers, but again depending on their focus they might provide a simple special rule, or an extra attack types or two.
Thank you for that detailed response. Heroes (Obi-Wan, Vader, etc....) not having that much of an impact might preclude these rules for me, but what little I did look at the clone wars stats/rules, color me intrigued. Something I still might take a peek at on a later date. For now, I'm looking at Fistful of Lead : Galactic Heroes (w/Big Battles) and One Page Rules. I do like the look of what you've done though.
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Yep, I figured you wanted a stronger heroes presence on the field so wanted to address that as well. I love the game system, but that does not mean its the right fit for everything and everyone!