Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: YPU on 25 April 2025, 05:58:48 PM
-
Welp, I guess I've finally reached that age.
On various social media a user by the name of Hyvemynd who some of you might know has been posting progress pictures of their 2mm marian roman army and enemies and it reminded me that I had started a DBA Batavian germans vs romans project in 15mm but bounced of how few figures per base it still came down to (1-4 for infantry with DBA) but with 2mm, you can get a full army in a tiny space!
Reaching for my trusty golden hammer I went looking for 3d files to print and while there is some stuff out there, all with their own strengths they all also had shortcomings that made me think "I can do better than that".
(https://i.imgur.com/T5hkSv8.png)
So here we have 12x4 early imperial auxiliary, standing about 2.3mm tall to the top of their helmets.
(https://i.imgur.com/quX7ejb.jpeg)
And enough of them printed and painted to fill a base to see how that looks. In DBA these would be "4ax", represented by a meager 4 figures on the base for 28 or 15mm. I'll do that with 4 of these blocks on a base instead.
Just another 6-10 unit types and 23 bases to design and paint before I have two playable armies. lol
-
Those look very good. Good luck with the project.
-
The first signs of megalomania! ;)
They look quite good and you’re right, these will give a much better impression of a 12 element DBA army representing an army. I am very much looking forward to seeing your project progress.
-
Cheers chaps!
Next challenge, archers! I'm unsure about these bows, but the spears are holding up well enough on the previous ones so the bows might be ok? Pushing limits here, I'll have to give them a test print and see how it looks and feels.
(https://i.imgur.com/q4YlR5R.png)
-
The blocks look great painted up. You kind of need to go for 1:1 figure representation at this scale though?
Individual 2mm archers is pretty bonkers - hope they survive printing
-
The blocks look great painted up. You kind of need to go for 1:1 figure representation at this scale though?
Thanks! And yeah I get where you are coming from, but this is kind of where DBA hampers me, since every army is exactly 12 bases of figures. Truth be told I'm also not sure I feel like doing that deep research into exact numbers of specific troops at a specific battle. To keep the bar low enough that I might actually finish this project, I've decided on early imperial romans and Batavi germanic tribes since I live right in the middle of the relevant area for that. But from my cursory research we don't have hugely specific reports or data from the era. We know roughly how many troops were involved in the Batavi revolt, but not where or when which ones were involved in combat for example? (do correct me if I'm missing some data here!)
Individual 2mm archers is pretty bonkers - hope they survive printing
Its been done plenty in metal. You can find the army that inspired me to try this here: https://bsky.app/profile/hyvemynd.bsky.social/post/3lnmnc5s6jk2w or here: https://www.instagram.com/p/DI3i2iwT1RW/
(https://i.imgur.com/Eqr6eci.jpeg)
[All credits to HyveMynd]
And you can see some individual archers in there front right row. Those are Irregular miniatures, pretty chunky and impressionistic, with their weapons blending into their bodies etc for sturdiness, but it can be done.
That said, for the roman archers they are supposed to be "4Bw" in DBA, which means a tightly packed formation, so I'm going to try and make rows of archers from these individual poses. With the Auxilery infantry I found it worked best to make some poses individually first, then copy them a bunch of times, mix them up and put them in rows for the formation. It gives a pinch of organic "alive" posing to what otherwise could be a very static block of models. I also scale a couple of models up and down by 10% for some height variation. Its hard to actually see, but I noticed that on 3d files from others it did really stand out that all heads were at exactly the same height. So its one of those things you don't notice if its there, but you will notice if its missing I think.
All that said, I'm hoping to make a formation of archers today and give them a test print (only 2 hours per print, very quick compared to any other scale)
-
I was kind of kidding with the 1:1 representative scale - just trying to feed your megalomania ;)
Those Irregular figures look much better than the ones I have seen - which I think are normally pike blocks.
Good thinking on small variance in size, will improve the look - as long as shields don't resize too much
-
I'm loving those archers!
My 2mm Romans are a mix of Irregular, Warbases' Antonine Miniatures and 3D printed resin.
I found the resin units, being composed of individual figures melded together, tended to disintegrate shedding small groups and individuals if so much as looked at sideways.
The metals ones were much easier to handle.
Now on to 1:1 scale! I use the 2mm stuff for Strength and Honour based on a non-standard 80x40mm base. Each of my four legions has around 600 heads. Given that an average legion of the Late Roman Republic seems to have had around 2,500 - 3,500 men that gives a ratio of between 1:4 and 1:6.
It wouldn't take all that much to get to 1:1. Obviously I'd need bigger bases and a bigger grid on the table.
"We're gonna need a bigger ... table!" :D :D :D
-
I was kind of kidding with the 1:1 representative scale - just trying to feed your megalomania ;)
Those Irregular figures look much better than the ones I have seen - which I think are normally pike blocks.
Good thinking on small variance in size, will improve the look - as long as shields don't resize too much
I've got too many big plans already thank you very much. lol
Yeah I was impressed with those metals as well, I think Hyvemynd's painting is a big part of it but the irregular sculpting style fits 2mm better than most other scales. And yeah I scaled the figures including spears and helmets, but not the shields!
I found the resin units, being composed of individual figures melded together, tended to disintegrate shedding small groups and individuals if so much as looked at sideways.
Now on to 1:1 scale! I use the 2mm stuff for Strength and Honour based on a non-standard 80x40mm base. Each of my four legions has around 600 heads. Given that an average legion of the Late Roman Republic seems to have had around 2,500 - 3,500 men that gives a ratio of between 1:4 and 1:6.
It wouldn't take all that much to get to 1:1. Obviously I'd need bigger bases and a bigger grid on the table.
With 3d printed models the brand and type of resin, printer settings, method of finishing (post curing etc) and further exposure to UV can influence their quality a LOT, I've had some absolutely crap printed figures over the years as well aye. And we really don't know for sure how 3d printed armies will hold up in 10-20 years! We might accidentally have created a miniature dark age, where most of the models have turned to dust leaving a gap in the historical timeline (most files will probably be archived by collectors though)
aah yes, I've looked at strenght and honour as well before. Now that I'm making 2mm stuff maybe I need to look again. :D With grids you at least have a build in table size abstraction to hide behind though, for that 1:1! Which does remind me that I'll be needing camps and other dedicated scenery for the two armies I'm doing for DBA at some point. Some serendipity here though, when the Batavi are defending they have a mandatory waterway scenery element, which means one table edge/side will be a lake or very wide river. Luckily the shore elements I made last year fit the stated size just fine so that's sorted. I'll probably end up making a roman fort at some point though, doubt I can resist.
(https://i.imgur.com/R8USFmu.jpeg)
you can see the making of these here: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=147298.0
Archers are on the printer as I type.
(https://i.imgur.com/81vyKMN.png)
Bit uncertain if these will work as well as the spear wielding auxilery. But then I just don't have the insight for 2mm yet that I have for other scales, so its a learning experience. I wanted these to pretty dense blocks of figures to make their "4Bw Solid" status in DBA clear, compared to lighter more skirmishing archer units. But more then 2 ranks didn't look right in CAD. Just less clear posing for a formation of archers beyond the line of guys shooting I guess.
-
With grids you at least have a build in table size abstraction to hide behind though, for that 1:1!
Having been down the 1:1, 1:2 rabbit hole; I'll take Strength & Honour's grids and abstraction lol
Maybe it's just me but I found Mark's entire Legion/ tribe bases look better on the table. In the attached photo, the figures are 1:2 but the ground scale is correct.
At contact a cohort with 8 ranks of 60 fills an area just 180 ft by 48 ft, here I used bases of 60mm x 15mm with figures in 6 ranks of 40.
-
Having been down the 1:1, 1:2 rabbit hole; I'll take Strength & Honour's grids and abstraction lol
Maybe it's just me but I found Mark's entire Legion/ tribe bases look better on the table. In the attached photo, the figures are 1:2 but the ground scale is correct.
At contact a cohort with 8 ranks of 60 fills an area just 180 ft by 48 ft, here I used bases of 60mm x 15mm with figures in 6 ranks of 40.
Very nice! I agree the bases look fantastic. I think I have a initial desire for more fine control, 10 big blocks of legionaries moving as one unit feels very abstract at a glance. But then I have not played that game yet, maybe I'll really like how it flows!
-
Very nice! I agree the bases look fantastic. I think I have a initial desire for more fine control, 10 big blocks of legionaries moving as one unit feels very abstract at a glance. But then I have not played that game yet, maybe I'll really like how it flows!
I've found the rules to give a real "big battle" feel. I really like them, despite my law of averages busting ability to roll an absurd number of 1's in most S&H games.
"Homunculus sum!" :'( :) :)
-
Nice to see so much love for 2mm and Strength and Honour. 2mm is a joy when done well as games look like proper battles in terms of formations and numbers a bit more in my opinion.
-
Also great to go to town with proper looking towns, woods and hills rather than 5 houses or a couple of trees!
-
Very nice! I agree the bases look fantastic.
Thanks, they look even better when they're painted up :)
-
Some very inspiring stuff there chaps!
And yes I agree about the scale allowing something approximating an actual town! I need to do some digging if the Roman town here at Nijmegen had walls. For some reason I presumed not but I'm not sure what I'm basing that on. Maybe just the fact I don't know about walls and probably would have heard about it if there were. Only real reason it matters is that walls are what set appart hamlet's and towns rules wise in DBA.
More concretely for now. I tried printing the archers above a couple of times in different ways, but the bows are just too fragile to even survive until the primer. Their curve hides how much thinner they are compared to the spears I think. I've now done a slapdash update with much thicker bows which are doing well so far. Hard to make out anything in the pic even with a wash applied but promising all the same.
-
My own two towns are walled as can be seen here in this image of the fictional town town of Nusquam, Portus Nusquam is not quite complete but is walled on it's landward sides.
I suspect smaller settlements would not be walled.
Since Nusquam is supposed to be on the very edge of Roman territory and barely a hop, skip and a jump from "Long Haired" Gaul defences seemed appropriate.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x750q90/923/OBN79O.jpg)
-
Oh very nice!
I should say, no wall in the era of the Batavi revolt, the later 2nd century roman wall is well knows to the point I failed to mention it above lol
-
:o :o Fascinating.
Years ago I was complaining that some people painted their 20mm figures better than I can paint my 28mm.
...Now I see a time coming when 2mm figures will be better painted than my old 28mm. ;)
-
Have you seen Baccus tiny terrain?
https://www.baccus6mm.com/catalogue/TeenyTinyTerrain/ (https://www.baccus6mm.com/catalogue/TeenyTinyTerrain/)
Might be better modelling the archers like the Wargames Atlantic samurai, holding the bow rather than shooting?
-
The Baccus tiny terrain pieces are a thing of beauty but too small even for 2mm, IMHO.
The Brigade Models buildings I used are more to scale being somewhere around 1/900 - 1/1000 as far as I can tell.
Their Dark Age Walled Village is doing service as a Gallic village. Now, where to find a very small Gaul, a very large Gaul with a menhir and a small dog in 2mm? lol
-
I think it depends how you want a town to be represented. The Baccus models are very tiny but you do get a really clever abstraction of a town.
I’ve added a top down of my Beneventum model I had at Salute as I’m rather pleased with it. At about 40cm long it’s not a small model for storing though and took a lot of time to model. I can see the appeal of a smaller compact representation for some people.
-
...Now I see a time coming when 2mm figures will be better painted than my old 28mm. ;)
There are a couple of people out there who casually paint 6mm figures (that I sculpted!) to a much much higher standard than my own best 28mm paint job, so I feel your pain believe me!
Have you seen Baccus tiny terrain?
Might be better modelling the archers like the Wargames Atlantic samurai, holding the bow rather than shooting?
I've seen the Baccus scenery, they are very nice one and done pieces I have to say. They are even smaller then 2mm like Ithoriel says but really at 2mm what's another couple of scoops of abstraction if it makes the scenery look like an actual city rather than 3 sheds in a trench-coat. That said golden hammer being what it is, I have already resigned to the idea of sculpting my own, seems like a fun little project really. :D
With DBA in the smaller scale class, a scenery piece like cities/forts can be lenght+with 36cm total, so a 18x18cm square or 20x16 rectangle is allowed and at 2mm I think you can fit a nice little walled town in that space!
you mean the archers that are posed like this?
(https://i.imgur.com/9Fc1pdD.png)
I've made some for the rear ranks, but they are very hard to tell apart from the spear and shield auxiliary at 2mm as you might imagine! The test with the thicker bows is still looking good, but I had a long weekend away at a boardgame retreat so I haven't gotten round to actually painting the test print of those new archers yet.
The Brigade Models buildings I used are more to scale being somewhere around 1/900 - 1/1000 as far as I can tell.
Their Dark Age Walled Village is doing service as a Gallic village. Now, where to find a very small Gaul, a very large Gaul with a menhir and a small dog in 2mm? lol
I think the scaling of brigades stuff is what my mind goes to instinctively as well, though I just realized I'm not entirely sure I ever seen their tiny stuff in the flesh.
Now the idea of that rural power trio in 2mm... I might take a shot at that for a lark. lol
I’ve added a top down of my Beneventum model I had at Salute as I’m rather pleased with it. At about 40cm long it’s not a small model for storing though and took a lot of time to model. I can see the appeal of a smaller compact representation for some people.
Yes its hard to deny the visual impact that has on the table, an actual town in miniature, shockingly rare in our hobby!
-
I think the scaling of brigades stuff is what my mind goes to instinctively as well, though I just realized I'm not entirely sure I ever seen their tiny stuff in the flesh.
Now the idea of that rural power trio in 2mm... I might take a shot at that for a lark. lol
The Brigade fort is a nice model though I prefer the resin model from Korhyl.
Working L to R. Korhyl, Baccus6 then Brigade. Figures are Irregular 2mm.
-
And here we finally go. Bows were much too dark at first but touching them up with some lighter brown makes them pop enough that you might actually identify the unit from table top distance now XD
(https://i.imgur.com/W0Bb2mX.jpeg)
I was considering doing a second sculpt of these to use for the "rear" rank formations but honestly I think I'll just repeat these and be done with this unit for now. Still have a dozen auxiliary blocks to paint and haven't even started the legionaries or cavalry yet! Saving the artillery as a treat for myself for last.
-
I realized doing much armor detail on the legionaries would be madness, so I only added shoulder armor to the auxiliary sculpts, and changed the shields and spears. I'm now regretting putting the aux in a line formation, if they had been 4 columns side by side that would have set them apart well. I'm considering doing that with the legion now instead, like this I think it does somehow make them look more "solid" in a way? it makes them feel harder hitting compared to the thinner 2x2 formations of the aux.
(https://i.imgur.com/1udLxVL.png)
-
I love those legionaries, as you say a good solid look to the formation.
I can remember the days when 6mm had that level of detail. Time and technology certainly marches on!
The testudo looks good too.
One block of legionaries needs a tiny Titus Pullo breaking ranks though. lol lol lol lol
-
I love those legionaries, as you say a good solid look to the formation.
I can remember the days when 6mm had that level of detail. Time and technology certainly marches on!
The testudo looks good too.
One block of legionaries needs a tiny Titus Pullo breaking ranks though. lol lol lol lol
Cheers, I was thinking a shield popping up with a head looking out myself. ;D
-
And here we finally go. Bows were much too dark at first but touching them up with some lighter brown makes them pop enough that you might actually identify the unit from table top distance now XD
Looks like you used a very similar brown as I did on these Irregular Minis ABG-20 close order bowmen.
-
Looks like you used a very similar brown as I did on these Irregular Minis ABG-20 close order bowmen.
Ha, yep! Its a bit bright but that means you can actually see it at table top range.
Meanwhile, "test often and test early" is what I'm trying to teach myself with 3d printing. Often it lets me avoid pitfalls I hadn't spotted yet, other times it makes me go "oh that works doesn't it"
(https://i.imgur.com/VY40AnV.jpeg)
-
other times it makes me go "oh that works doesn't it"
(https://i.imgur.com/VY40AnV.jpeg)
This definitely counts as one of those times :)
-
Ha! Cheers.
I'm sculpting a couple more variants in poses for the legionaries, plus chaps with horns and standard and what have you, but in the meantime I've based the auxilia and archers so thats a third of this army done!
(https://i.imgur.com/HVl73jj.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ex1Rzc1.jpeg)
Camera wasn't playing ball so focus isn't great but still, that is starting to look like something of an actual army now aint it
(https://i.imgur.com/j9YJ8w9.jpeg)
Legionaries not glued down, but quick mockup to show how much more dense their formations will be by comparison.
-
And now for something extra tricky. The famously easy task of drawing horses.
(https://i.imgur.com/o5d09fX.png)
We'll see if they look right at the actual size on the table.
-
The first test came out allright I think. I put them in a bit of a random cluster for strength and on the final ones I definitely will pay more attention to how I fill up the gaps between the legs, its a bit shallow on these. I tgubj those look roughly horse shaped from a distance, if you squint, right?
(https://i.imgur.com/VvbcoXc.jpeg)
(https://imgur.com/ZEueceL)
(https://i.imgur.com/ORdRtfI.jpeg)
-
For 2mm figures, they look pretty good to me! I expect once they’re painted they will work fine. The riders will get most of the attention anyway since that’s where the brighter colours will be. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about the solid bit under the horse/ between the legs, nobody will notice that when they’re on a unit base.