Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Hobgoblin on 01 June 2025, 10:13:18 AM
-
So ... in my ongoing project to standardise the basing for all my metal fantasy miniatures, I stumbled across a large cache of miniatures that I'd put aside years back to serve as Gloranthan dark trolls. They're now bronzed up on the painting table. And I have a lot of the glorious old Citadel broo. That's revived an idea I've toyed with for ages: doing some Big Rubble-based skirmish games (perhaps with rulesets ranging from Song of Blades to Ravenfeast to Mordheim, depending on the scenario).
These figures scale very well with the old Citadel Runequest humans, of which I have a few: Wolfhead and Griselda, at least.
But is there a range of ancients out there - metal or plastic - that fits well with those old Perry beauties? I think the old Foundry Vikings and Saxons might work as Sartartite types (possibly a little big?), but some Greeks, Romans and Persians would come in very handy.
(I should say that I'm not too interested in 'modern' Gloranthan takes; I love the Luise Perrin take on the world, with trolls that are either folkloric-looking or only a bit snouty (I'm mixing the two) and hoplitey heroes and heroines. So I'm basically looking for historical figures that will scrub up nicely with a few runes and fit in with Griselda, Wolfhead, et al.)
Any suggestions much appreciated!
-
You could have a look at this, from our very own LAF?
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=38197.0
-
Probably the old Wargames Foundry Greeks, Persians, Roman, Carthaginians, Celts as these are 25mm
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/greeks-older-range
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/persians-older-range
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/pages/republican-romes-wars
Some others such as early Perry, Dacians, Picts, Franks and Saxons will also match although slightly bigger.
Neil
-
Thanks, both! Those are very handy links.
Panzer21 - do you include the Perry Early Imperial Romans among the "early Perry"? Those are the Foundry figures that best match the illustrations for Lunar soldiers in Pavis & the Big Rubble?
It's always hard to eyeball scale from photographs, but a lot of those Perry figures look extremely promising given what I presume to be 20mm square bases.
Thanks again!
-
My mate has those Foundry Early Imperial Romans and they match Warlord's first plastic Early Imperial Romans (or rather those latter were made to match the former, back in the day), so that makes them more on the 25mm scale side of things.
Not sure how useful they are for Glorantha (my knowledge isn't up there), but the Foundry New Kingdom Egyptians are in the smaller, 25mm size I think. And in there there's a guy who has a Baboon on a lead:
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/new-kingdom-egyptians/products/e029-egyptian-nubian-civilians
-
Not sure how useful they are for Glorantha (my knowledge isn't up there), but the Foundry New Kingdom Egyptians are in the smaller, 25mm size I think. And in there there's a guy who has a Baboon on a lead:
In Glorantha, baboons aren't pets, they're player characters!
-
My mate has those Foundry Early Imperial Romans and they match Warlord's first plastic Early Imperial Romans (or rather those latter were made to match the former, back in the day), so that makes them more on the 25mm scale side of things.
Ah - that's a very handy benchmark - thanks! I have a few of those small plastic Romans (was kitbashing some into Uruk-hai), so will maybe throw one together as a sample Lunar soldier and see how he measures up against Wolfhead and co. If he looks the part, then I could just knock up a patrol of Lunars from a sprue or two.
Not sure how useful they are for Glorantha (my knowledge isn't up there), but the Foundry New Kingdom Egyptians are in the smaller, 25mm size I think. And in there there's a guy who has a Baboon on a lead:
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/new-kingdom-egyptians/products/e029-egyptian-nubian-civilians
Ah - another good call! I'm going off RuneQuest 2 and supplements for the most part, which are quite bare bones on descriptions. So those figures could all have a use.
In Glorantha, baboons aren't pets, they're player characters!
True! Luckily, I have a Citadel baboon or two to hand.
-
Thanks, both! Those are very handy links.
Panzer21 - do you include the Perry Early Imperial Romans among the "early Perry"? Those are the Foundry figures that best match the illustrations for Lunar soldiers in Pavis & the Big Rubble?
It's always hard to eyeball scale from photographs, but a lot of those Perry figures look extremely promising given what I presume to be 20mm square bases.
Thanks again!
.
Yes, the Perry EIR would match - be careful however the Saleh single pose are large 28mm
There's also the old Citadel Barbarians (as well as Vikings etc):
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/ex-citadel-games-workshop-models?page=2
Neil
-
.
Yes, the Perry EIR would match - be careful however the Saleh single pose are large 28mm
There's also the old Citadel Barbarians (as well as Vikings etc):
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/ex-citadel-games-workshop-models?page=2
Neil
Great - thanks again, Neil! And those barbarians are a very good call. I think I have one of the Citadel slotta orginals; I'll size him up and see how he looks. I don't mind a fair bit of variation in humans; I'm just wary of Saleh/Copplestone-type figures that might make my dark trolls look too dainty!
-
Here's the first of my dark trolls for this project. He's a Grenadier Orc of the Severed Hand. I picked up the whole set a while back, along with some duplicated. I think they're just perfect for the Uz; they'd be about 7' tall compared with Citadel RQ adventurers if they stood up straight, and they're much bulkier (arms as thick as a man's waist, etc.).
I also around three sets of the matching blister of three orcs, plus some of the matching goblins, which are perfect for trollkin. To bulk those out, I'm adding the two Ral Partha trollkin and some de-horned and de-tailed kobolds.
Also, I'm throwing in some of the Citadel RQ trolls too; I love Luise Perrin's Borderlands troll illustrations, which the Citadel ones are based on. The Grenadier orcs and goblins are very close to her slightly more 'canonical' trolls in the RQ2 rulebook, but they can all work together as far as I'm concerned, along with Ral Partha dark trolls (I have both). After all, why should mythic 'men of darkness' conform to some sort of taxonomic consistency?
Anyway, here's the test piece. Most illustrators don't show Uz with glowing eyes, but I think they look better (and they're certainly easier to paint!). Again, mythic 'men of darkness' ...
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPARcoAHRAj27ZpLvoeOu46coWagOagAxv_eQ6phlj2A0PWsLBL29dPbcLR9aQH0KnSqvQvr1hIhoOuQu-50TkZD46WvevAluBIz5G3UWqgaMTQwobnhMnsC8iAOwW2dXon437TuNoj0qenggYSeconSQ53aCnGAlvRC0TSVH4NY_dCf7-ssVgIjlQ2m0D/s4032/Dark%20troll%201.HEIC)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjepyAQESZPFyUQuS2Kaq9Kh8imFcRxxWIGmtZlL_sJ8kw2d4WmLPf3LKv7EbXt1ZM4BXuIKfZmQPsBRuRk-65nUi8gx0XvOieK-QzWvPq7dS6XjX0Pw1rFq4PITiv_qmc3ptBoU8nsT5xcUnIrWkjUKZN7g8oddvypgZTBOvFTD-_VYT6-Rf_jOW4HEoa-/s4032/Dark%20troll%202.HEIC)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjrO1tz4-hsH1qyoB2diGsEYay1bhckdmoNWXCfudclN2Jc_luBoK2QKYCwo1vkiL31g7qFya5mQ8TCLtvRxRytupKUlIc6I7isU0S2VaHWrNcGny2FNlpZ1ce1m3f40BPvaLU_jIbBvzMY3Tl3K-LaF1Ez7kOHNuMPCLY9MO2XGTzZwqVATAajLa-DfKZ3/s4032/Dark%20troll%203.HEIC)
-
Don't forget Foundry's 'Argonauts' range:
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/argonauts-and-mythical-heroes
(you'll see there's quite a handy windchild model in there!).
And there's also Foundry's other Mythic Greece range as well:
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/greek-mythology
Sorry, I can't help with how they scale to other ranges but, in general, Foundry tend to be on the smaller range of 28s.
-
Don't forget Foundry's 'Argonauts' range:
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/argonauts-and-mythical-heroes
(you'll see there's quite a handy windchild model in there!).
And there's also Foundry's other Mythic Greece range as well:
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/greek-mythology
Sorry, I can't help with how they scale to other ranges but, in general, Foundry tend to be on the smaller range of 28s.
They are 28mm. They will tower over the original Citadel 25mm Runequest figures.
Neil
-
Warlord Games has some decent stuff in their Aegean States range, including plastic sprues just ripe for conversion.
https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/aegean-states
-
Thanks all!
They are 28mm. They will tower over the original Citadel 25mm Runequest figures.
Neil
True - probably no good for 'regulars', but the odd outsize hero isn't out of scope. I was checking my RQ stats again, and the average dark troll is SIZ 16-17, so I can tolerate a few hefty fellows who have the mass of the Grenadier orcs.
And some of those non-human creatures in the Argonauts and Mythic Greece ranges could be handy too: gorgons and whatnot. So thanks for the pointer, Dice Roller - I'd completely missed those ranges!
Warlord Games has some decent stuff in their Aegean States range, including plastic sprues just ripe for conversion.
https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/aegean-states
Ah - that looks well worth a look - thanks! I discovered some very small plastic hoplite heads in a bit box this morning; smaller than those on Citadel RQ figures. I think they may be Warlord, so I'll see if I have any of those sprues hanging around (a hoplite helmet on a small Warlord Roman body is a starting point for a Gloranthan kitbash in this scale, I suppose!).
-
There was a box of plastic Hoplites that I used for a WI online Spartan painting article many years ago. I forget the manufacturer, but they were bought out by Warlord and then phased out. I recall they were quite small, probably true 25mm scale. Let me Google myself and see if I can find it.
EDIT: Right, it's 'Immortal Miniatures' - they might be a little prescriptive, being for a Greek shieldwall, but I recall them being easy to chop about, so you could easily give them alternative weapons and poses. I don't know if they're still available though.
https://www.warlordgames.com/painting-spartans-by-paul-cubbin/
ANOTHER EDIT: There's a few boxes and sprues of them on eBay, so you can still get them.
-
Excellent troll there. The eyes are great.
Maybe have a look at Essex's ancients range. I've used a few of their ancient Britons in RQ or RQ-adjacent projects before and I reckon they scale OK with the Citadel guys. Quick comparison shot attached
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/66/12373-030625180426.jpeg)
-
There was a box of plastic Hoplites that I used for a WI online Spartan painting article many years ago. I forget the manufacturer, but they were bought out by Warlord and then phased out. I recall they were quite small, probably true 25mm scale. Let me Google myself and see if I can find it.
EDIT: Right, it's 'Immortal Miniatures' - they might be a little prescriptive, being for a Greek shieldwall, but I recall them being easy to chop about, so you could easily give them alternative weapons and poses. I don't know if they're still available though.
https://www.warlordgames.com/painting-spartans-by-paul-cubbin/
ANOTHER EDIT: There's a few boxes and sprues of them on eBay, so you can still get them.
Ah - thanks, Cubs! I think that head I found this morning is from that sprue, which means I may have some of the bodies and limbs tucked away somewhere in an 'ancients' bag. I'll dig that out and see and maybe order a sprue or two more.
I'd no idea they'd been phased out, so that's great info.
Excellent troll there. The eyes are great.
Thanks! I've definitely had better results since switching from yellow highlights to white on red eyes.
Maybe have a look at Essex's ancients range. I've used a few of their ancient Britons in RQ or RQ-adjacent projects before and I reckon they scale OK with the Citadel guys. Quick comparison shot attached
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/66/12373-030625180426.jpeg)
Ah - interesting! Those are much less chunky than I'd have imagined Essex to be from the medievals I have (and Griselda is tiny even by Citadel RQ standards). I'll investigate.
That Citadel troll is a good reference too: the Orcs of the Severed Hand scale pretty well with the Citadel RQ trolls.
-
I had a bit of a look last night, using a 'reference Wolfhead', and discovered that quite a few plastic ranges seem quite compatible with the Citadel RQ figures (going by Wolfhead and Griselda, though they're technically White Dwarf Personalities, I presume). These include Gripping Beast Vikings and Goths, and Conquest Normans, all of which should do the job as non-Lunar 'barbarian' types.
Oddly, the range that fits perfectly with those old Citadel figures is Frostgrave. I was quite surprised by that, but when I stacked up Wolfhead next to a Frostgrave barbarian, everything matches - head, hands, height, the lot.
Similarly, the female Frostgrave soldiers are a very good match for Griselda.
Now, the Frostgrave figures are generally a bit overdressed for Pavis. But the tribals and barbarians less so - and the female barbarians look really quite promising for Praxian and Sartarite types.
Oddly enough, the Warlord Romans are way too small (barely Griselda-sized if that) - and here I wonder if Wolfhead and Griselda are unrepresentative of the Citadel RQ line. But I don't think so.
I didn't get a chance to dig out the Warlord/Immortals hoplites that (I think) I have; I'll get onto that tonight.
But it does look like I'm going to have to keep looking for Lunars: essentially, regular ancient-world heavy infantry but not hoplites (needed for Sun Dome types). If the Warlord Romans match the Foundry Perry ones, then both would appear to be too small. Meanwhile, Victrix would be too big: they'd put my trolls in the shade, I think.
Any further suggestions for the Lunars greatly appreciated! Are there Romans that stand between Victrix and Foundry/Warlord?
-
Yeah the frostgrave barbarians seem inspired by a lot of 80s fantasy- I see a lot of old Citadel and Conan in them (which is great, since I love the whole sword and sorcery look)
-
What about Warlord's Caesarian Romans? They are larger than their own Early Imperials if I recall. Unless their style and gear isn't quite what you'd want for Lunars?
-
Yeah the frostgrave barbarians seem inspired by a lot of 80s fantasy- I see a lot of old Citadel and Conan in them (which is great, since I love the whole sword and sorcery look)
Definitely! And horned helmets on those and the Frostgrave knights, which is handy for Storm Bull types in RuneQuest.
What about Warlord's Caesarian Romans? They are larger than their own Early Imperials if I recall. Unless their style and gear isn't quite what you'd want for Lunars?
Ah - they look like they might work - thanks, Gibby! I've just been looking at Pavis & Big Rubble, and a purist would give whatever troops are used scimitars to Lunar them up. But Caesarian Romans would work as well as any as the base models, so these might be the answer.
Meanwhile, I've revisited an old project and am going to remove these chaps from their plastic bases and finally get them painted up to mix in with the Grenadier guys:
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=124051.0;attach=122078;image)
(https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=124051.0;attach=122423;image)
I'm also planning to broaden my liberal take on trolls a bit further by including some unconverted Fantasy Tribe and C15 armoured orcs with the same paint scheme as the Orcs of the Severed Hand. Given plenty of bronze, black or grey skin and prominent tusks, I think they'll all look Uzzish enough. And they'll also work fine as orcs in other games. I'm also thinking about adding in some Essex orcs and Chronicle giant black orcs: I don't mind having quite a mix when the paint scheme is there to unify things. That would give me sufficient numbers of 'trolls' to think about Saga and Dragon Rampant in the Rubble - Uz vs Lunars and broo allies, with a gang of adventurers in the middle, perhaps?
-
Here's a comparison shot of the adventurers so far (all WIP, obvs ...) - left to right, Frostgrave barbarian, Citadel Griselda, Citadel Wolfhead, Immortals/Warlord with (I think) a Victrix head, Fireforge (with some minor kitbashing:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgqwAl8lCPH4fFvrE8Pmj1fgxuo6620JzPrRLOO6tXKGghiiiRjfBYGaqdyRd1IogOTZjbPz4kzR0ZQ7IdFGeQulStsjjI57AQxQmiRxKKRnsJGz91RjXHOVgLvzpOAWBOq9DFno4rUrpB1R1O2eUCWxjVK4OX5hssSBhVAXPgx99Cr56-UHISm7bwwnymY/s4032/RQ%20comparison.HEIC)
They all look pretty comparable to me, though I note that Citadel's Griselda (SIZ 7) is quite big compared with Wolfhead (SIZ 13 by the book!). Importantly, all five are small compared with my "trolls".
-
I think that the Griselda and Wolfhead figures must be larger than the other citadel Runequest stuff. The adventurers I have scale well with the small Warlord EIR guys, as well as with the original Citadel FA range from the late 70s/early 80s. Your two characters were released a couple of years after the original release, so I wonder if there was some scale creep over that time. Interesting to see how well they scale with the Frostgrave stuff.
-
PS, I'll get a photograph up in the next day or two to illustrate.
-
I think that the Griselda and Wolfhead figures must be larger than the other citadel Runequest stuff. The adventurers I have scale well with the small Warlord EIR guys, as well as with the original Citadel FA range from the late 70s/early 80s. Your two characters were released a couple of years after the original release, so I wonder if there was some scale creep over that time. Interesting to see how well they scale with the Frostgrave stuff.
Yeah, that could well be true. I have quite a bit of the RuneQuest range, but mainly the dragonewts, trolls and broos (I think I have a few human adventurers somewhere, but they've snapped at the ankles). I seem to remember that some of the humans were a bit weedy in the leg and perhaps a little stumpy in the shin.
PS, I'll get a photograph up in the next day or two to illustrate.
Great - thanks very much!
-
Hi Hobgoblin. From left to right we have a frostgrave plastic soldier, a RQ Waha adventurer, a warlord plastic EIR, a RQ Daka Fal Adventurer, and a citadel FA27 Amazon. Hope this is useful.
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/66/15359-060625211010.jpeg)
-
Iron Wind Metals, Ral Partha Historicals may be worth a look for smaller finer sculpts more in line with the above RQ figures rather than what look to be the heroic Griselda and Wolfhead.
(https://www.ironwindmetals.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/thumbnails/300x300c000000/historicals/DH-003.JPG)
https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-ral-partha/cat-historicals/category/the-hoplites-ancient-world (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-ral-partha/cat-historicals/category/the-hoplites-ancient-world)
-
Hi Hobgoblin. From left to right we have a frostgrave plastic soldier, a RQ Waha adventurer, a warlord plastic EIR, a RQ Daka Fal Adventurer, and a citadel FA27 Amazon. Hope this is useful.
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/66/15359-060625211010.jpeg)
Useful picture Thew - I had similar thought to you, that the original RQ metals were some pretty small and slender figures (but very characterful). I'm a bit surprised they don't look dwarfed by the FG figs, who seem chunky to me.
-
Hi Hobgoblin. From left to right we have a frostgrave plastic soldier, a RQ Waha adventurer, a warlord plastic EIR, a RQ Daka Fal Adventurer, and a citadel FA27 Amazon. Hope this is useful.
(https://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/66/15359-060625211010.jpeg)
Thanks very much, Thew2 - that's hugely useful! And, actually, it neatly solves a problem for me. I was going to pick up some second-hand RQ adventurers (have found some at not-eyewatering prices). But given that Griselda and Wolfhead are the birds in the hand, it makes sense to focus on figures that fit with them rather than acquiring the old - and now demonstrably diminutive - adventurers.
I picked up a box of the Frostgrave knights yesterday, along with a sprue of the female barbarians, and I've been busy assembling various Storm Bull and Orthanthi/Vingan types from that.
All that said, that Daka Fal adventurer doesn't look a bad match for the Frostgrave soldier. But the Warlord EIR guy looks much more compatible with those RQ guys than with Wolfhead.
-
Iron Wind Metals, Ral Partha Historicals may be worth a look for smaller finer sculpts more in line with the above RQ figures rather than what look to be the heroic Griselda and Wolfhead.
(https://www.ironwindmetals.com/images/com_hikashop/upload/thumbnails/300x300c000000/historicals/DH-003.JPG)
https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-ral-partha/cat-historicals/category/the-hoplites-ancient-world (https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-ral-partha/cat-historicals/category/the-hoplites-ancient-world)
Yeah, those probably do work reasonably with the original RQ adventurers. I have a few RP historicals kicking around, including a defiantly ahistorical Viking with a two-handed sword and a bow on his back. He's almost certainly going into this project!