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Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: David Cowper on July 12, 2025, 10:18:08 AM

Title: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 12, 2025, 10:18:08 AM
I recently bought a League of Augsburg allied army pack from Pendraken miniatures at their Games Day, despite never having played the period or in 10mm before. Which rule sets do people recommend?
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: OB on July 12, 2025, 11:24:26 AM
I like Beneath the Lily Banners by Barry Hilton. In 10mm just use more figures per base. I imagine it will look very impressive.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Aughrim1691 on July 12, 2025, 11:39:28 AM
I use the 10mm Pendraken figures for the Jacobite war in Ireland. I decided to use Beneath the Lily Banners but slightly increase the number of figures per base. Each infantry base having 8 figures (giving 32 figures per battalion unit including 1 pike base) and cavalry 4 figures per base (8 per squadron). Although it's only a small increase I feel that it gives each 'unit' a more realistic look whilst still making it feasible to field lots of units.

Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 12, 2025, 05:11:32 PM
Thank you both for your suggestions.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: rct75001 on July 13, 2025, 05:27:06 AM
I'm having a good hard look at GaPa.  I Like what I see from a read - need to try it out still though
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Hwiccee on July 13, 2025, 09:21:27 AM
We use the Twilight of the Sun King rules for this era. It is aimed at fighting real battles, and not the 'skirmishes' of other rules, with a reasonable amount of resources and in a reasonable amount of time.

There are also 4 scenario books for the rules.

https://www.wyrehistoricbooks.co.uk/sun-king (https://www.wyrehistoricbooks.co.uk/sun-king)
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Sandinista on July 13, 2025, 10:25:47 AM
I love the Pendraken LoA range, I have 1000s of them. The LoA flags they sell were designed by me. As for playing, I use Pike and Shotte, gives a good game and plays well as a solo game, which I often tend to do.
Cheers
Ian
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 13, 2025, 11:07:39 AM
I am slowly building  "Williamite Wars" Protestant and Catholic armies using Pendraken 10mm, and plan to use "Beneath the Lily Banners; The War of the Three Kings", although my armies are still in the raw metal! I know that Simon Miller who wrote the "To the Strongest" ancient/medieval and "For King and Parliament" ECW rules is currently writing and play-testing a set called I think "Lust for Glory", which will cover circa 1670-1748, but may also take in the Seven Years War. I don't know when they will be released but I suspect Spring next year. The beauty of Simon's rules is that they don't require any set basing so anything I base for "Beneath the Lily Banners" should be good for "Lust for Glory".

Regards   
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 14, 2025, 12:33:09 PM
Thank you everyone. I’ve bought Beneath the Lily Banners.  I’m a complete beginner to the scale soo this is going to be a bit of an adventure for me.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 14, 2025, 12:40:50 PM
The LoA figures are lovely little sculpts - one thing I will say for painting 10mm figures, is remember you are painting units for an army, not individual figures - otherwise you can spend a lot of time on tiny details that aren't going to be visible.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 14, 2025, 01:52:18 PM
Fred, thanks for the reminder. With 6mm I adjusted my painting style a lot to paint units rather than individual figures. I will confess the extra detail and individual castings makes reverting to painting style quite tempting. I must resist!
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 14, 2025, 05:56:00 PM
I think you will find that the LoA figures have that much detail they will take longer to paint than others 10s - I know they have been a super slow burn project for me (not helped by not having an obvious rule set to use, and having to do both sides). But they are super lovely once painted up.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 15, 2025, 05:44:31 AM
Fred, you and I are in the same boat. I too can get none of my mates interested so am building both sides. Which rules are you looking at?
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 15, 2025, 07:20:56 AM
Rules wise I'll likely wait for a FKaP supplement as we really enjoy these rules.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Hwiccee on July 15, 2025, 09:10:01 AM
Here are some shots of my French army from a few years back. I am afraid I never got round to taking some of my Confederate army and others I had. I have more now so at some point I will have to get round to taking some shots of them now.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Hwiccee on July 15, 2025, 09:12:28 AM
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Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Hwiccee on July 15, 2025, 09:14:44 AM
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Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Hwiccee on July 15, 2025, 09:16:54 AM
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Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 15, 2025, 10:50:27 AM
Fred. Simon Miller hopes to have a PdF of his c1670-AWI rules available by Salute next year. I stress the word "hopes".
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 15, 2025, 05:43:54 PM
I’m wondering how many figures to put on each base. With the Pendraken army pack I will have 60 musketeers, 30 pikemen, 30 command figures, 15 cavalry, 15 dragoons and three guns.  I guess I’ll have a few spare command figures until I expand the army. I also have to decide which theatre.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 15, 2025, 06:16:33 PM
David, I had the same question back in 2023 and put it out as a question on the League of Augsburg forum. The "advice" I got back was 6 infantry on a 25mm square base ( 3 bases per regiment) and 3 cavalry on a 30mm square base ( 4 bases per "regiment").  You can see the exchange if you go to "Fighting Talk" on the League of Augsburg website, and then "PIke and Shot" and then "BLB War of the 3 Kings Newbie Question"  ( ie me!) as a topic. The guy who responded embedded a link with some photos of completed armies. This is what I plan to do as I assume that they will also work for Simon Miller's upcoming rules. 
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 15, 2025, 07:46:22 PM
Great looking army Hwiccee

Number of figures on a base (and size of base) are perennial questions. I went with 40mm square bases, with 12-16 figures per base - these units look good - but do take a lot of figures and a lot of  painting. I can't spot my own photos right now - but will have a search as I have a (rather old) thread on LAF with my few painted LoA units on it.

Found my thread https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=92170.60

And here's and a photo (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QkEDRpHsh7zNUW8KSrU07mnhWy4WTQuNAroIcDLwKG_Vs58dEajIxLKkHkzdxbupZl_PgANia1C-7g=w2560-h1440-no)
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Hwiccee on July 15, 2025, 08:06:14 PM
They look great Fred.

The rules I use have flexible basing where units can be any number of figures on any sized base as long as the unit frontages are the same. All game measurements are then in multiples of half the unit frontage.

We use a unit frontage of 120mm and I went for a single base with 24 to 3o figures on depending on unit type. Others in the group say use two bases of 60mm per unit or three bases of 40mm with various numbers of figures on.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: bigredbat on July 16, 2025, 09:35:15 AM
The Pendraken 10mm figures are lovely- there was an Aughrim game at Partizan, last year or the year before, that was to die for. They had large numbers of minis on biggish bases, perhaps 12cm or more wide- looked great!
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Frostie on July 17, 2025, 07:42:22 AM
I have a couple of thousand of these for the Nine Years War.  My infantry 'regiments' are about 52 strong on 3 40x40mm bases.

Only played a couple of games using Pike and Shottee rules
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 17, 2025, 07:51:18 AM
They look great Fred.

The rules I use have flexible basing where units can be any number of figures on any sized base as long as the unit frontages are the same. All game measurements are then in multiples of half the unit frontage.

We use a unit frontage of 120mm and I went for a single base with 24 to 3o figures on depending on unit type. Others in the group say use two bases of 60mm per unit or three bases of 40mm with various numbers of figures on.

Thanks Hwiccee

I too have gone with 120mm frontage (3x40mm bases)

Which looks a popular choice!

I have a couple of thousand of these for the Nine Years War.  My infantry 'regiments' are about 52 strong on 3 40x40mm bases.

Only played a couple of games using Pike and Shottee rules

Sounds ace Frostie - do you have photos?
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 17, 2025, 09:28:37 AM
I would love to invest in big units but that would involve too many figures and more importantly too much painting effort. That said great inspiration to kick-start what had become a bit of a back-burner project for me.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 17, 2025, 12:49:34 PM
Yes, big units are good - but are a lot of effort. For AWI I went with 4 figs on a 25mm base and 4-6 bases per unit - much quicker progress!
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 17, 2025, 01:43:53 PM
Fred, at the risk of going "off topic" which rules do you use for AWI?
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 17, 2025, 02:21:34 PM
We’ve played Live Free or Die a couple of times. They give a decent game - the scenarios are pretty big generally a 100 infantry bases a side- so we’ve only been able to play a couple of the smaller ones so far.

I’m not an expert on the period but they seem to give a decent feel for the era.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: SJWi on July 17, 2025, 04:17:28 PM
Fred, I picked up a copy of Live Free or Die on LAF's Bazaar quite cheaply. I was shocked to see that new they cost £27 in the UK for what is, in effect, a 20 page softback magazine. Before investing in 10mm my mate who has a huge 28mm collection decided to give the rules an outing for a part of one scenario. We thought they were "OK" but nothing special. Playing on a 6 x 4' table was not ideal so maybe not a fair reflection on the rules. We then did a figures count for what we would need for many of the scenarios and decided not to star again in 10mm given that between us we have a lot of 28mm. I might still buy the Live Free or Die scenario book as a PdF for $13 as I'm sure the data can be adapted to other rulesets.       
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 17, 2025, 05:44:28 PM
I picked up the PDF - that price for the slimness of the book feels super expensive. The scenarios would be worth getting I think, they should be pretty adaptable to other rules - units vary by size, and quality - so should map across reasonably well.

Given the standard basing is quite small - they would need to scale up quite a lot to work in 28mm, so a big table would be important.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 23, 2025, 04:32:00 PM
I’ve just watched the video on the Wargames Illustrated YouTube channel of the Battle of Aughrim game by Pete Brown and Jerry Richardson at Partizan 2024. I love how their units look. Does anybody know what base sizes they used? I’m considering whether to go for whole unit bases or multiple bases for a unit for change of formation.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 26, 2025, 09:55:24 AM
Great looking army Hwiccee

Number of figures on a base (and size of base) are perennial questions. I went with 40mm square bases, with 12-16 figures per base - these units look good - but do take a lot of figures and a lot of  painting. I can't spot my own photos right now - but will have a search as I have a (rather old) thread on LAF with my few painted LoA units on it.

Found my thread https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=92170.60

Fred, I’ve looked at your thread and it’s inspired me to go with the same basing as you, which will work for Beneath the Lily Banners, I think. Did you get your flags from Pendraken?

And here's and a photo (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QkEDRpHsh7zNUW8KSrU07mnhWy4WTQuNAroIcDLwKG_Vs58dEajIxLKkHkzdxbupZl_PgANia1C-7g=w2560-h1440-no)
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on July 26, 2025, 10:44:04 AM
Hi David - yes my flags are from Pendraken - and they are very nice designs!
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 29, 2025, 10:06:03 AM
Are there any other sources of 10mm flags?
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: OB on July 29, 2025, 11:59:44 AM
David at Not by Appointment blog has loads of excellent flags for the period. You will need to reduce them for 10mm troops but that is simple enough in Word.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on July 31, 2025, 12:19:13 PM
That’s a great blog, OB. Thank you for the suggestion.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: OB on July 31, 2025, 01:15:20 PM
Most welcome David I'm sure. I use lots of NBA flags.
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Sandinista on August 01, 2025, 04:18:52 AM
Hi David - yes my flags are from Pendraken - and they are very nice designs!
I glad you like the flags, I had fun creating them. All of them have been used in my armies, I should post some pictures on here.
Cheers
Ian 
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: fred on August 01, 2025, 07:30:52 AM
Cool - I hadn't realised you had created these.

Any chance you'd like to do a set of AWI ones for Pendraken, the current ones are a bit basic?
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: Sandinista on August 02, 2025, 02:02:44 AM
That would be up to Leon to decide
Title: Re: Which rules for late 17th Century with 10mm figures?
Post by: David Cowper on August 11, 2025, 03:45:15 PM
I’ve also found that there are some flags for the period on the ‘Don’t throw a 1’ blog plus the Tiny Tin Troops flags also sold by Pendraken.