Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Stuart on 15 July 2025, 05:54:00 PM
-
Help from the hive mind.
Henry Blundell of little Crosby, Lancashire.
I’m unsure of when he was born but I know he was killed at Flodden.
I’m struggling to find heraldry and I’m reluctant to use the generic Blundell arms (attached)
Any help would be greatly appreciated
All the best
Stuart
-
Are you sure of his dates, Stuart? There is a record of a Henry Blundell of Little Crosby but born around 1517, died before 1562, married to Anne (Leyland) Blundell?
The Blundell's of Little Crosby had slightly different heraldry to the Blundells of Ince (Great Crosby) - it's the same as your picture (blue background, 10 gold billets arranged 4-3-2-1) but has a gold square or canton in the top right corner over the 1st and second billets on the top row and the first billet on the second row. On top of that canton is a natural coloured raven with his beak pointing right. Obviously the directions are in the heraldic form and refer to the shields left or right, not as you look at it.
-
Nothing to add on the heraldry - but quite odd/interesting to see names of places just a few miles south from me cropping up! Blundell is a place name these days too.
-
Still looking but I can't find a reference for any Blundell having died at Flodden. How good is your source, Stuart?
-
Thanks Rick, I’m questioning it now. There’s a passing reference to him in this article
https://www.flodden1513ecomuseum.org/project/the-battle/39-piecing-together-who-was-at-the-battle
-
Right. Interesting but not conclusive either way really. Both sources are a bit hazy - either your source is correct and a (sir or honourable) Henry Blundell was at Flodden (and SAID to have died) meaning the internet source dates for Henry Blundell are wrong by some years OR the internet dates are right and the article has it wrong. Or there really might be 2 Henry Blundells and we're both right! lol
Needs more information really.
I'm pretty sure that the heraldry is right, though.
-
Right then, I think I see what's happened and there ARE 2 different Henry Blundell's, one being the grandfather or great grandfather of the other.
I do like a good detective story!!
Just found a reference to an Agnes (Bold) Blundell, daughter of sir Henry Bold, 2nd wife of Henry Blundell who died 9th Sept. 1513.
So, Stuart, your source does appear to be correct he was at Flodden, died there it would seem (same date at any rate) but not a knight - probably gentry, possibly even an 'honourable' as his family had been knights, but perfectly entitled to wear his heraldry, which would have been the one I mentioned above.
-
Ah excellent, the curse of same names, thanks very much I appreciate it 🙂
-
Is this the arms you mention?
-
Yes, that's the one that seems to be associated with the Blundells of Little Crosby.
-
Stuart, I've been following your blog and your Facebook group for years now, but I am very excited with the recent developments with Molyneaux's and now Blundells - I live on the North edge of Liverpool so if you know of somewhere I could look - an archive, local library, old manor, anywhere, I could pop my way down there and check if anybody knows anything.
Maks
-
A pleasure to inspire you Maks. The church with Molyneux’s grave is mentioned in the article and there’s also St Leonard’s church in Middleton just outside Manchester which has The Flodden window. I heartily recommend a visit there but make an appointment.
My next unit will focus upon the men from Lancashire who were in Stanley’s division at Flodden. It’ll be a while yet as I’m a slow painter but I I’m sure it’ll be worth the wait 🙂
-
What has been interesting to me, as I've looked at the fragments available, is that all these families have intermarried at some point - perhaps a kind of family obligation for Stanley's contingent at Flodden.
The Stanley's and Molyneux's have a history of friendship with one bad tiff that had to be sorted out by the King, they then make up and seal it with a marriage. Similarly the Blundell and the Molyneux family have intermarried - Little Crosby was originally a Molyneux estate before it was Blundell. Again, when looking at the list of Sherriff's it's amazing how many names also crop up marrying a Blundell or Molyneux - it's fairly obvious these are families of some standing and prestige in the area.
-
It’s a joy reading this stuff and seeing the depth of assistance that others like yourself can offer.
-
I actually enjoy doing a bit of research - digging out a few fragments here and there until you find something that fits together - it's often about finding the right questions to ask.
For example - I wonder how significant the Raven in the shield canton is? Obtaining permission to add a canton isn't unusual in a cadet branch of a family - it's a way of showing your ancestry and difference at the same time. But the Raven is an interesting touch; it can symbolise wisdom or divine providence - a cadet branch might use a Raven to show that they didn't inherit their position or money, but gained it themselves. Interesting stuff! lol
-
Thought I’d keep this going. There are two more nobles I’m interested in who served alongside Molyneux & Blundell in the Stanley contingent;
Sir Thomas Gerrard of Bryn in Ashton, Mackerfield 1488-1523
Sir Henry Kighley of Inskip near Preston 1451-1526
I haven’t got round to trying in earnest to find their heraldry but it’s not immediately obvious from a cursory look.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
-
Presumably 'Mackerfield' is what we know of as Macclesfield?
And argh, oogh and other expressions of frustration - I came across the name Kighley when searching for Henry Blundell, but not in connection with Flodden - I shall have to retrace my steps!
-
Sir Henry Kighley of Inskip, Preston. 1451-1526.
The surname changes an awful lot from Kythely to Keghley, Kyghley, Kighley and the more modern version, Keighley, with the town named for the family (I mention this because the town of Keighley uses a modified version of the Keighley family heraldry).
-
The Gerards or Gerrards, from the Germanic Gerhard (spear-brave) have several branches of the family, some with different heraldry. Oddly, there is even a Gerard of Ince branch, who may be neighbours to the Blundells of Ince!
This is the heraldry of Sir Thomas Gerrard 1488-1523 as far as I can ascertain.
-
The Kighley shield should be easy to paint but you're going to need transfers for Gerrard, I think! lol
-
Thanks again Rick. I suspect I may favour Keighley over Gerrard when selecting which knight will have a surcoat.
On that point it’s interesting to see that surcoats and indeed earlier armour hung around for quite a bit in the early 16c especially with some of the lesser nobles. It makes a Flodden collection that much easier to do - albeit with 16c clothing and armour present too.
-
I saw that with the tomb of one of these blokes - they referenced the fact that the armour was of an earlier style. Presumably, unlike the knights that went with Henry to France, these guys weren't expecting to go to war and had no time to commission a brand new set of armour - they would likely have refurbished whatever they had standing in the armoury, got a new surcoat and off they jolly well went! WotR armour would be perfectly in keeping I would have thought.
Next is the trickier bit - the heraldry is one thing but do we have any idea what retinue badges their followers might have worn?
-
In this case yes, they wore the Stanley eagle claw badge. Some of the (likely captains) wore blue Stanley livery coats too which is unusual for an army raised for home defence but as you say that might be all they had.
There were Stanley’s of the bishop of Ely present also who wore the three crowns of the bishopric and carried the banner of St Audrey
The bulk of the rest of the army had the white coat with St George cross or just a cross (and occasionally livery badge) on their coats / jacks
-
When we talk about liveries in the Flodden-period, I assume we are talking about coloured "basecoats" not "vests" of WotR period, correct?If so, do we know when that change occured, roughly?
-
Yes in the majority it’s coats.
Around 1500 they are full base coats but whilst state sponsored they weren’t issued by the state so there was a lot of variation
I forgot to mention the marines under Howard wore the white guarded green livery coats.
The bulk of the army in France wore those and observers commented upon this.
-
Oh right - so we're starting to see a kind of English army-wide 'uniform' of sorts starting to appear around this time? A requirement for a common colour rather than a kaleidoscope of individual liveries?
-
1499 is the earliest reference I can find for the longer coat (where length is stipulated)
Henry VII brought in ‘coat money’ statute, this was a levy or forced payment collected ostensibly to provide soldiers with military coats or uniforms before campaigns. However, it often functioned as a disguised form of taxation or a means of raising revenue for the crown.
In practice, recipients of the demand often had to pay the sum but did not receive a coat, making it a clever way for Henry to gain funds without calling Parliament to approve a formal tax. The cost of the coat was borne by the noble who raised them - some being cloth, others being damask depending on status / position and more importantly budget.
-
And confusingly ‘coat money’ didn’t necessarily refer to a cost but the kings badge (St George cross for external wars) but it had to be put on something.
‘White coat’ in the late medieval period and this was also a word for an English soldier
-
Sir Thomas Gerrard of Bryn in Ashton, Mackerfield 1488-1523
Presumably 'Mackerfield' is what we know of as Macclesfield?
There is an Ashton-in-Makerfield - just off the M6 near Wigan. Not sure if there is a general NW connection to the various nobles Stuart is finding or not?
-
North, definitely. From what I've read (Flodden is usually outside the periods I'm mainly interested in) the local nobles and militia of the North West and North East were called to muster as the Earl of Surrey marched north to meet them with his forces, aiming to meet up and intercept the Scots army heading South after it had crossed the border.
What I find fascinating is that it's the same system as had been implemented (or adapted) by Aelfred for the defence of Wessex and Mercia, it's the same system used by Harold Godwinson in 1066 - apart from changing names and details, it is basically the same system in use for over 700 years at this point (and would be continued to be used for hundreds of years afterwards) for home defence.
-
It’s a massive achievement that two armies are fielded and victualled by the English in the same campaign season under this method, it must have been a huge undertaking. With ultimately very little to show for it despite all the effort and opportunity.
It’s such a fascinating period of history, Henry inherits a huge war chest and really pulls out all the stops.
With so many people still around with long military careers.
So much survives in contemporary accounts in comparison to the WOTR. I find it completely immersive
-
Yeah, so you have to remember that the English have always been an independantly minded group of belligerent buggers. After the Germans, then the Vikings, it was the English that became the feared pirates of the North Sea and then beyond! We were still trying to downplay that a bit - it would take a long time to fade (and we never really stopped until after the Napoleonic Wars!) - but one of our biggest exports to Europe during this time (up to the 30 years war, probably longer) were mercenaries. The English, the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish all had marvellous careers in the various continental wars, getting paid by as many different sides as you could manage and hefty ransoms to boot! lol
So when you mention 'long military careers' some of those careers were created all over Europe; the white company, the italian condottieri, all different places. Money earned came home to fund estates and businesses; not to mention a big pool of veteran.soldiers and commanders with a nice line in armour and weaponry! I have no doubt that Surrey had no lack of experience to draw on to organise a quick campaign and provisioning system! lol
-
The Keighley coat of arms for the town sits below. This is taken from an 1830`s print from a book which was later used by the Council so still not entirely accurate. I believe those 3 things at the bottom are stags ? Also is that a snake around the dragon head at the top ?
-
Bit more on Keighley:
KEIGHLEY (Yorkshire). Argent, on a fesse sable, between three stags' heads caboshed a fountain proper, all within a bordure embattled azure. And for the Crest — On a wreath of the colours, in front of a dragon's head erased gules, entwined by a serpent or, a fountain proper. Motto — " By Worth." Granted 7th February 1883.
Burke's " General Armory " adds a description of the arms as follows :
The Crest (a red dragon) was that of the ancient family of De Kighley, for many generations Lords of the Manor, whose last representative (a female) married the then head of the house of Cavendish in the time of Queen Elizabeth, and thereby carried the Keighley estate into that noble house, of which the Duke of Devonshire is the head. His Grace still retains the estate, which has belonged to his family for nearly 700 years. The serpent twined round the head of the dragon is the Cavendish Crest. The circle with the wavy blue lines at the bottom of the Crest, and also repeated in the shield, is the heraldic emblem of water technically called a fountain, and refers to the situation of Keighley in a well-watered valley, the streams of which have greatly tended towards the progress of the town, being of great value for manufacturing purposes. This idea is also borne out by the motto ' By Worth,' that being the name of the principal stream on the banks of which Keighley is situate. The shield is a combination of the Keighley and Cavendish arms. The silver shield and black bar being those of the former family, while the three stags' heads are the cognizance of the Cavendishes. The blue embattled border surrounding the shield shows that the arms are those of an ancient town, which is the case, Keighley having obtained its original market charter in the reign of Edward I.
-
The Keighley coat of arms for the town sits below. This is taken from an 1830`s print from a book which was later used by the Council so still not entirely accurate. I believe those 3 things at the bottom are stags ? Also is that a snake around the dragon head at the top ? I wonder how much has changed from the original coat of arms for Keighley the person to the town coat of arms ?
-
Yup - as I mentioned in the earlier post the town of Keighley uses a modified form of the much older Keighley, Kighley or Kytheley family heraldry. The silver shield with the black bar across is modified with a blue crenellated border, 3 stags heads on the silver and a fountain on the black bar. This is NOT the heraldry of the Kighley family at Flodden, but a later form adopted by the town - best not to confuse the two! lol
The Cavendish heraldry does explain the snake on the dragon - they have a snake on their crest as the Keighley's have a dragon's head.
-
Here’s some initial progress.
Henry Blundell amongst some billmen, couple of the distinctive blue Stanley livery coats there too.
More soon, Molyneux and some archers are needed next.
All but one of the figures are Steel fist late medieval Dollies and heads.
-
An amazing level of research and quality figure building, as ever. I wouldn't expect any less.
-
All done, thanks so much for your assistance
Left to right. Henry Blundell of little Crosby (KIA), Henry Kighley of Inskip, William Molyneaux of Sefton, Thomas Gerrard of Bryn in Ashton in Mackerfield, Ralph Assheton of Middleton (Greater Manchester)
-
Whole unit so far. Lancashire archers are next 😎
-
Sumptuous :-* 8)
-
Wonderful painting. :-* :-*
-
Just great to see it all come together. Fantastic figures.
-
Here they all are based and in action at the battle of Flodden.
If you’re interested in reading more there’s plenty on my blog post
https://stuartsworkbench.blogspot.com/2025/08/stanleys-men-of-lancashire-for-flodden.html?m=1 (https://stuartsworkbench.blogspot.com/2025/08/stanleys-men-of-lancashire-for-flodden.html?m=1)
Thanks again for your support and encouragement
Stuart
-
that is a great photo :o
-
All lovely work. Great stuff.