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Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Doc Twilight on 17 December 2009, 12:43:41 AM

Title: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Doc Twilight on 17 December 2009, 12:43:41 AM
Seems like I'm doing nothing but posting on Black Army these days, and I do apologize, but I've been super busy with getting into a PhD program and I have had very little time to do much else but business related stuff. I don't mean to be such a shameless hack.

That said..;)

I just wanted to thank you all for your help with the Japanese uniform issue for our Shanghai range. I am pleased to inform you that Leandro Ventic (who has already done a lot of beautiful work for us, including Mata Hari, Dillinger, FC Julian, Julian the Apostate...) is working on the Japanese for our Shanghai, 1930 range.

These will be Japanese in M1930 uniforms with "cherry blossom" helmets. They will be equipped with standard pattern kit for the time. The initial release will include four infantrymen, one "officer" character (Colonel Washiji Toro) and the redoubtable "Eastern Pearl" herself, Kawashima Yoshiko, with more releases to follow.

As an added bonus for those who like pulp, Leandro is sculpting gasmask heads for these guys! They will be wearing standard IJA issue gasmasks. The idea is that the guys with gasmasks will represent "Special Unit 66", our Japanese occult unit in the Shanghai, 1930 universe, but they could just as easily represent historical troops, since the Japanese did conduct operations with gasmasks during the period...

Leandro told me just this morning that he's very close to finished with the figs, and will be sending photos soon. If there's interest, I'll be happy to post them here. Given the high standard of his work - I'm THRILLED that he's doing these guys. It will give our pulp line the attention it deserves, I suspect.

-Doc

Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming.
Post by: Mancha on 17 December 2009, 02:53:25 AM
Seems like I'm doing nothing but posting on Black Army these days, and I do apologize, but I've been super busy with getting into a PhD program and I have had very little time to do much else but business related stuff.

You intend to be earning a PhD at the same time you're running a business?!   :o    ;D
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming.
Post by: Wirelizard on 17 December 2009, 06:38:05 AM
You intend to be earning a PhD at the same time you're running a business?!   :o    ;D

That's insanity on a pulpish scale! Bravo! And heck, you're already using the title on this forum, you might as well get the PhD and be the real-life Doc Twilight! (is your family going to go along with you changing your last name to Twilight, though?)  ;)

Also, excellent news on the interwar Japanese.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming.
Post by: Doc Twilight on 17 December 2009, 08:10:39 AM
 :D What can I say. I'm insane.

Actually, running the business isn't too bad. It's more of a side line for me. I have very low overhead, and very few employees. All I really need to do is ship the orders out in a relatively timely manner, come up with ideas, etc. So, I guess it is work, but it's not killer work. And it's fun to see some of my imagination in metal.

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming.
Post by: Doc Twilight on 17 December 2009, 08:40:37 PM
Some gorgeous shots from Leandro!

These are still a work in progress. The gas mask heads are being sculpted now, as is an NCO for the riflemen. I am extremely pleased with these so far, however. All are wearing historical gear. Only Colonel Toro's mask is fiction. (Yes, that's an m1930 raincape.)

Group Shot:
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture734-1.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/?action=view&current=Picture734-1.jpg)

Infantry Pics:
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture731.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/?action=view&current=Picture731.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture732.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/?action=view&current=Picture732.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture733.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/?action=view&current=Picture733.jpg)

Toro and Kawashima Yoshiko
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture725.jpg) (http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/?action=view&current=Picture725.jpg)

Pretty cool, eh?

Comments welcome, as always!

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Svennn on 17 December 2009, 08:54:04 PM
Very nice, I think I can see myself painting some of those :-* :-*
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Phil Robinson on 17 December 2009, 09:25:58 PM
Looking good.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Tacgnol on 17 December 2009, 10:16:01 PM
Dead cool, eagerly awaiting the gas mask sculpts.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Mancha on 18 December 2009, 05:44:15 AM
These are way cool.  I love the Japanese guy with the mask and the cape, and the soldiers are fun as well. 

I'm not a huge fan of the female though.  Her hair is kind of formless, and her hands are begging to be grasping something.  She looks like someone just said "Say cheese" while she was lifting a crate.  But as you said, these are works in progress.  Can't wait to see them done.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Arlequín on 18 December 2009, 09:06:05 AM
Excellent looking figures, the rifles really look like Arisakas too!  :)
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Captaingeneral on 18 December 2009, 09:26:28 AM
Goodness these look nice...and I thought I had finished with the interwar stuff.....
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: traveller on 18 December 2009, 07:14:06 PM
Very nice! Can these be ordered in your current Holiday discount offer?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Doc Twilight on 18 December 2009, 09:03:06 PM
Thank you all for the support, guys. I say it a lot, but I mean it: your comments really mean a lot.

Mancha - Point taken. The picture is very close to the appearance of Yoshiko as she appeared in life, however. She favored wearing mens clothes a lot, and tended to cut her hair quite short. However, she is still a work in progress. I've asked Leandro to soften her face a bit (she was a real beauty, historically, and though the face is very close, I think it could be a little closer), and to arm her with a pistol.

Jim - those Arisakas are killer, aren't they? I sent him a link to an online version of the old Handbook on Japanese Military Forces, and he apparently studied the images of uniforms and weaponry very closely. Just amazing stuff. The helmets are spot on, too!

Traveller - Wish they were, pal, but they aren't ready yet. Hope to have them available by February.

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Helen on 18 December 2009, 09:57:50 PM
Hi Alex, nice miniature greens by Leandro.

A couple of observations if I may.

Where the metal band/bayonet housing should actually loop over the barrel. From the photo it stops short of this.

A recommendation for the officers shin-gunto sword. A tassel attached to the sword will provde an added attraction for this officer as they were normally attached anyway.

Helen
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Doc Twilight on 19 December 2009, 09:31:27 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, Helen. I shall pass them along.

-Alex
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: former user on 19 December 2009, 11:26:09 PM
these are really good sculpts

did not know that Arisakas were that large - they are very finely detailed

pity they'll only be available by february

how do they work in size?  japanese average height?
maybe Leandro can send some comparison shots?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: carlos marighela on 20 December 2009, 01:41:20 AM
If these are meant to represent the earlier Arisaka service rifle  then the original rifle was 50 1/4 inches long ( 127cm) or a little over 4 feet. That means they should come to somewhere below the shoulder of the average Japanese soldier of the time and that's what contemporary pictures show.

Judging by the photos of the greens, the rifles are grossly oversized and appear to as tall as the figures themselves.

Overall nice sculpts, noses look a little too roman to me and they seem to be sporting very unmilitary collar length hair ( maybe that's my eyesight or is meant to be a havelock). A little disappointing but mere quibbles really, it's the rifles I find really offputting. Hopefully your sculptor can sort out the scaling issues.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: the commissar on 20 December 2009, 11:18:28 AM
I like the look of these - how will they compare with other companies (say Artizan)?

Will they be limited to just three figures (and an NCO) without gasmasks?

Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Doc Twilight on 20 December 2009, 08:32:53 PM
In response to comments/questions.

1. Arisaka size -

The average Japanese soldier was 5'3 at the time. The average weapon was just under 4.5 feet long without bayonet, even longer with bayonet. This was the largest bolt action weapon of the era. While they may be a bit oversized, I don't know that they are "Grossly" oversized. However, I will speak to the sculptor about resizing them to an appropriate length.

2. Faces -

The sculptor is himself Asian, and has a very good eye for appropriate racial features where necessary. I think they'll do just fine.

3. Size -

Don't have them in hand yet, but they should average out to 28mm tall. In this case, the figs in the range are actually 28mm. Not 34mm. The size was chosen to make them compatible size wise with most pulp miniatures ranges. They look fine with my Pulp, Brigade, Artizan, etc, but I suppose it's a matter of personal preference:)
That said, keep in mind again that the average Japanese soldier was 5'3, so they may very well be shorter than your average European/American type.

4. Availability -

There will be other figs coming, yes. These are only the initial sculpts. Three riflemen and an NCO should cover many needs admirably, however.

-Doc


Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - Pictures Added!!!!
Post by: Doc Twilight on 29 December 2009, 09:20:17 AM
More photos. In this case, an updated Eastern Pearl, and our first view of the Japanese NCO, in this case modeled with a gas mask. I have asked Leandro to add a helmet to the gas masked head, but otherwise I'm quite pleased. Yes, the NCO will have a variant non-masked head.

(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture015.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture016.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture018.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/Mithras77/Picture019.jpg)

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Helen on 29 December 2009, 06:34:50 PM
Very nice Alex, this will be a good genre to game.

Helen
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on 29 December 2009, 07:13:01 PM
The whole range is very tempting..
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: argsilverson on 29 December 2009, 11:38:40 PM
Tempting range and tempting figures!

Here is a link with lots of pictures for study and inspiration:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=105642

Here you also see the comparison of the rifle vs the real man!
Alex is right about the proportions of the rifle and bayonett fixed rifle vs the soldiers ob the era.

Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: argsilverson on 29 December 2009, 11:41:17 PM
Oh I forgot!
what about some officer in more traditional look, i.e. spectacles, soft cap, no hood and no gasmask?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 30 December 2009, 12:52:22 AM
good pics thx
apparentely nipponese of that time were quite small and arisaka pretty big

where did You get the pictures? whenever I entered "japanese soldier" I got pretty unnerving pictures  :'(
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: argsilverson on 30 December 2009, 01:37:09 AM
where did You get the pictures? whenever I entered "japanese soldier" I got pretty unnerving pictures  :'(

axishistory forum thread: China incident. Just follow the link.

I searched in fact for the term: "interwar Shangai" and this popped up!
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Doc Twilight on 30 December 2009, 02:23:20 AM
Oh I forgot!
what about some officer in more traditional look, i.e. spectacles, soft cap, no hood and no gasmask?

All of the troops will have heads with and without gasmasks. Not sure if Leandro has decided to do the NCO with a soft cap or a helmet for his non gasmasked version. Soft cap on duty wear in China is relatively uncommon in the pictures I have, though not unheard of. Future troops will probably have a mix of helmets and soft caps.

Colonel Toro is as is, I'm afraid. Probably wouldn't be too hard to do a bit of converting, though.

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: argsilverson on 30 December 2009, 11:41:13 AM
All of the troops will have heads with and without gasmasks. Not sure if Leandro has decided to do the NCO with a soft cap or a helmet for his non gasmasked version. Soft cap on duty wear in China is relatively uncommon in the pictures I have, though not unheard of. Future troops will probably have a mix of helmets and soft caps.
Colonel Toro is as is, I'm afraid. Probably wouldn't be too hard to do a bit of converting, though.
-Doc

Uncommon? approx. 50% of the photos in the thread are in soft caps
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 30 December 2009, 12:28:44 PM
nobody wears steel helmets all the time - maybe for propaganda photographs, and possibly steel helmets were not discarded that often in the disciplined japanese army, but without shellfire and trenches, steel helmets would be obsolete.
so no problems with nipponese soldiers in soft caps
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Arlequín on 30 December 2009, 05:36:56 PM
While I'm sure you meant no offence former user, there are people who would find the use of the word 'nip' to be offensive. I don't wish to crack the 'PC whip' to you or anyone else, but shall we just attempt to keep things polite?  :)
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 30 December 2009, 05:55:12 PM
While I'm sure you meant no offence former user, there are people who would find the use of the word 'nip' to be offensive. I don't wish to crack the 'PC whip' to you or anyone else, but shall we just attempt to keep things polite?  :)
oh sorry, sorry
I only wanted to use the period term, and thought the offensive one was "jap"

I apologize, my misconception

so nipponese soldier would be the polite one though?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Arlequín on 30 December 2009, 09:54:21 PM
Well your guess is as good as mine there... Japanese is the safe bet, but I would think myself that Nipponese would also be fine. I'm actually at a loss as to why they might be offensive in the first place... I don't find 'Brit' offensive after all. But apparently they are.  :?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Helen on 30 December 2009, 10:03:31 PM
Have a look on the Axis forum under the Japanese at War subject and check their protocols in the use of certain words.

Helen
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Doc Twilight on 30 December 2009, 10:04:12 PM
Well your guess is as good as mine there... Japanese is the safe bet, but I would think myself that Nipponese would also be fine. I'm actually at a loss as to why they might be offensive in the first place... I don't find 'Brit' offensive after all. But apparently they are.  :?

Basically, during the 1930s, and later during the war, "Jap" and "Nip" were used as insults and racial epithets as well as general descriptives. Nip was considered to be the more "deragatory." (Jap was still vaguely acceptable after "Nip" had fallen out of fashion.) I can't speak for all Japanese individuals, but I had a good Japanese friend who was fine with "Jap" in an historical sense, but considered "Nip" to be the Japanese equivalent of another very unfortunate "N-word" used to describe persons of color.

Can't explain the psychology, just telling you what little I know about the situation.

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Doc Twilight on 30 December 2009, 10:08:36 PM
nobody wears steel helmets all the time - maybe for propaganda photographs, and possibly steel helmets were not discarded that often in the disciplined japanese army, but without shellfire and trenches, steel helmets would be obsolete.
so no problems with nipponese soldiers in soft caps

Granted, but the point is that "official policy" for Japanese troops on patrol in "hot zones" like Shanghai was to wear the cherry blossom. Now, yes, you do see evidence of the soft cap, especially after it was discovered just how fragile the cherry blossom was (made of an inferior grade of steel that cracked like an eggshell, not unlike the highly sulfurous steel used by Italian tank manufacturers), and I'm not saying it wasn't common. But six out of every ten soldiers in my -own- photo collection (not the link you provided, Arg) are wearing the cherry blossom.

At any rate, these are all in the cherry blossom for two reasons.

1. People (including me) wanted them. (Nobody makes them in cherry blossoms, currently; it's a very iconic look)
2. This is, again, only the initial run. I -promise- that there will be soft caps coming, soon, really:) Give me time to get the range rolling!

For those interested, Washiji is actually wearing an historically correct rain cape. The only "non-historical" detail is that face plate.
Because he's a pulp character for the Shanghai, 1930 universe I wanted to give him a somewhat "exotic" look.
 
-Alex
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 30 December 2009, 10:14:31 PM
OK  - see, wrong assumption from my side because I thought something closer to Nippon would be better

sorry again

edit: can't find the protocol, too many topics...
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: odd duck on 02 January 2010, 08:03:47 PM
The sculpts look great,I look forward to seeing them in production,I'm pretty new to this era so that link from argsilverson is much appreciated.Love the cavalry horses with the sunhats lol lol .but can anyone tell me anything about those two armored motorboats http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=105642&start=615 about halfway down the page?they keep saying scratchbuild me and I can't find any info on any naval websites!sorry if I'm getting off topic!
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: argsilverson on 02 January 2010, 10:36:53 PM
The sculpts look great,I look forward to seeing them in production,I'm pretty new to this era so that link from argsilverson is much appreciated.Love the cavalry horses with the sunhats lol lol .but can anyone tell me anything about those two armored motorboats http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=105642&start=615 about halfway down the page?they keep saying scratchbuild me and I can't find any info on any naval websites!sorry if I'm getting off topic!

scratchbuilting the gunboats! my thought when I saw them!
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 02 January 2010, 11:31:49 PM
here, I linked the pic
(http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=123570&sid=abaf271412ccbd7cd679e46dd4d2c989)

finding something there is really a mess

these are really cute - just what I was looking for

anyone with good eye measure any guess how big they are?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: odd duck on 02 January 2010, 11:44:55 PM
Hard to tell without a human figure in the pic. but I think 9or 10 meters?
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 02 January 2010, 11:47:11 PM
from the height of the cabin and the 75 mm gun I tend to agree, some 10m +, so basically some 18-20 cm in 28mm scale, which is just fine for us, unless we want to fit @Akula boots  ;)
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: odd duck on 02 January 2010, 11:57:49 PM
75mm? I was wondering about that ,as i said kinda new to this era.now if we could only find a shot from the stern :-[
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Dan on 03 January 2010, 08:14:46 AM
here, I linked the pic
(http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=123570&sid=abaf271412ccbd7cd679e46dd4d2c989)

finding something there is really a mess

these are really cute - just what I was looking for

anyone with good eye measure any guess how big they are?
I have an old Hovels 20mm model of those boats . The access door is at the rear of the forward cabin and comes to just below the top of the windows which could be useful to scale them . I've not seen a photo of these before so was a bit unsure of where to fit the turrets (if I ever get around to making it )
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 03 January 2010, 08:23:18 AM
maybe You could take some pictures with a 20 mm doll please?

I am not an expert on boats, so I was wondering what kind of vessel this is. If it is a riverboat, it should have a rather flat keel, but then it looks high built and armoured, which would put the center of weight rather high? I wouldn't expect it to be very high sea-worthy, it is also short - more like a launch.

Anyway, in tactical terms the design looks good to me and it also seems not improvised, but rather standardized - it reminds me of the well armoured shell of german E-boats.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Doc Twilight on 03 January 2010, 09:05:36 AM
Actually, it's an armed landing craft, so essentially a launch, yes.

-Doc
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 03 January 2010, 09:18:09 AM
thx

only Info I could find
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/ab-tei.html
that would make it 24 cm in true scale, and I can't see the third turret...

btw, can the BA sculpts be used as marines? I just stumbled about the Info that during WWI, a japanese destroyer group was stationed on Malta and did escort duty for the entente in the Mediterranean.
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: odd duck on 03 January 2010, 06:49:19 PM
Thanks for the infofmation gentlemen
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: carlos marighela on 04 January 2010, 12:24:53 AM
Those turrets in the bow look suspiciously like surplus turrets from a Type 89 tank, so at a guess those are 57mm guns not 75mm
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: former user on 04 January 2010, 06:29:03 AM
so says the datasheet from the link - I was wrong with my guess
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: odd duck on 04 January 2010, 07:11:07 AM
Inspite of having dozens of half finished projects waiting for my attention I've made the basic hull and cabins this afternoon pretty rough but a good start.I'll show some pic.s on the workbench section later this week
Title: Re: Japanese in M1930 uniforms coming - MORE pictures!(12/29/09)
Post by: Doc Twilight on 18 January 2010, 06:21:36 AM
Just a brief update.

Leandro has finished the sculpts and I couldn't be happier with them. I've asked him to take some new shots as I've deleted some of the others, and I don't have them all together, at any rate. I will post some pictures (likely in a new topic), as soon as I have them. It is my hope that Leandro will be willing to do either some Chinese or French Gendermes for the French Concession at some point. (Assuming the Japanese sell well enough to fund such endeavours.)

I have also received the finished examples of Fu'Xian's "otherworldly" minions. I will have some photos of these as soon as possible. I may well wait until they are cast in metal to share them, but I think they are going to suit the purpose very well, and are arguably the best work he's done for me, thus far.

-Doc