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Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Wolfslord on 21 December 2009, 07:49:54 AM

Title: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Wolfslord on 21 December 2009, 07:49:54 AM
I'm looking for some rather odd figures for my RCW White Russians:

- Musicians with tubas, french horns, bugles, drums or whatever (those who saw the White Russian assault in the fim Admiral know what I'm looking for) and they have to be convertable

- Orthodox priest and orthodox nuns (do they look different compared to normal nuns?)

- If there are  no musician miniatures, where could I get the instruments seperately ?
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Will Bailie on 21 December 2009, 08:32:49 AM
I have not seen the film, so this suggestion may not be suitable, but Tradition has a full marching band available, for British Army of ca 1890.  Maybe with some headswaps and filing off the shoulder wings, they might do.
http://www.traditionoflondon.com/index.asp?page=Home.asp#
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: HerbyF on 21 December 2009, 08:35:30 AM
For instruments try looking at very small doll house miniatures. The ones made for a doll ouse within a doll house. Also this time of year you might be able to find some miniature ornaments of angels or cherubs with musical instruments.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Mark Plant on 21 December 2009, 09:25:10 AM
This is a subject that's interested me for a while. I've been surprised how many bands I've seen since I've started looking hard for them.

And that includes mounted bands. And Cossack mounted bands too:
 http://pygmywars.com/barendspages/mountainhosts/tereknotes/toporkov.jpg
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: oxiana on 21 December 2009, 09:34:44 AM
The Dixon ACW range also has a military band playing various instruments, you might find something there:

http://www.dixonminiatures.co.uk/dixoncatalogue.asp?maintype=9
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Svennn on 21 December 2009, 09:46:25 AM
How about this chap from The Assault Group?

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w198/svennnthedhnut/Panda031.jpg)

Svennn
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: former user on 21 December 2009, 09:47:17 AM
- Orthodox priest and orthodox nuns (do they look different compared to normal nuns?)

definitely

the men have these high cilindrical hats (remember 007 - For You eyes only?)

(http://www.kurskroot.com/nuns-sm.jpg)
(http://www.orthodoxdetroit.com/Kallistos%20/Mother%20Gabriella%20and%20the%20nuns%20from%20dormition.JPG)
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: HerbyF on 21 December 2009, 10:20:46 AM
The main differense I see here is the Orthodox nuns are in all black. No white wimples or scarves.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Overlord on 21 December 2009, 10:23:47 AM
This miniature was one of the Foundry Cossacks (No longer available?)

www.ludeme.com/minis/cossack02.htm
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: former user on 21 December 2009, 10:24:50 AM
The main differense I see here is the Orthodox nuns are in all black. No white wimples or scarves.

yes
the Orthodox do not have "orders" like the Catholics and thus do not need to differentiate with fancy stuff or color codes

also keep in mind that male orthodox priests and monks do not shave their beards
don't know about the nuns though ;)
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: argsilverson on 21 December 2009, 11:13:16 AM
yes
the Orthodox do not have "orders" like the Catholics and thus do not need to differentiate with fancy stuff or color codes

also keep in mind that male orthodox priests and monks do not shave their beards
don't know about the nuns though ;)
correct former user. There is some "orders" in the greek orthodoxchurch, but the differences are minor (and no visual in 28mm), so no problem with them. the monks have different caps.

available models:
Old glory: pack COS-13, cossack clergy (from their cossack wars range
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/products.asp?cat=116&pg=2
The clergy clothing has not been changed over the centuries so they are OK.
The last two make an ideal monk and priest. The first row is much more in active poses.
 Some of them are also suitable for Greek, Bulgarian, Serbs, Armenian etc clergy. No need to make any conversion. They can also be used in other eras, even moden ones.Just a minor info. Orthodox priests operating in Western Europe do not wear special garments outdoors and usually have small beards. they look more like a protestant or anglican pastor.


A more elaborate clergyman, half civilian clothing etc  can be obtained by brigade games form the command pack BG-SIER001
 http://www.brigadegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
in their strom in the east range.

a good nun can be found from WW1 german nurse  again by Old glory  pack WW1-113
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/products.asp?cat=311&pg=2
just paint her black
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: argsilverson on 21 December 2009, 11:17:09 AM
The Dixon ACW range also has a military band playing various instruments, you might find something there:

http://www.dixonminiatures.co.uk/dixoncatalogue.asp?maintype=9

I have not seen the film, so this suggestion may not be suitable, but Tradition has a full marching band available, for British Army of ca 1890.  Maybe with some headswaps and filing off the shoulder wings, they might do.
http://www.traditionoflondon.com/index.asp?page=Home.asp#

These are good ideas but definitely need head swaps.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: argsilverson on 21 December 2009, 11:26:01 AM
Oh yes somewhere there is one Rasputin?monk with a russian machine gun
but I do not remember where!
(maybe Amazon miniatures- if still available)
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: former user on 21 December 2009, 12:47:20 PM
thx Argylsilverson

not easy to see through all this christian secessionism  ;)
for instance I understood only recently where this greek catholic orthodox thing comes from....

which btw could be interesting if one wants to represent Ukrainian and Gakician forces ;)
But I would not know if these were in the actual "White" movement at all, nor how they would look like
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: argsilverson on 21 December 2009, 12:53:53 PM
not easy to see through all this christian secessionism  ;)
for instance I understood only recently where this greek catholic orthodox thing comes from....

just to make things easy, politics/power is the reason!
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Mark Plant on 21 December 2009, 07:37:12 PM
which btw could be interesting if one wants to represent Ukrainian and Gakician forces ;)
But I would not know if these were in the actual "White" movement at all, nor how they would look like
The Ukrainians and Galicians were most definitely not White. Many Whites thought they were worse than the Bolsheviks (being both Socialist and splitters).

Uniforms for them are tricky. There is an Osprey, but it's pretty hard to follow unless you really know what was going on before you try to decipher it.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Doc Twilight on 21 December 2009, 08:05:45 PM
thx Argylsilverson

not easy to see through all this christian secessionism  ;)
for instance I understood only recently where this greek catholic orthodox thing comes from....

which btw could be interesting if one wants to represent Ukrainian and Gakician forces ;)
But I would not know if these were in the actual "White" movement at all, nor how they would look like

Keep in mind, however, that there is a Greek Catholic Church, and a Greek Orthodox Church. The Greek Catholic Church still recognizes the pope as its final authority; the Greek Orthodox Church does not. Both are very large institutions, but very few people outside Greece seem to know about the Greek Catholics.

-Doc
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Altius on 21 December 2009, 08:29:41 PM
Brigade Games makes a really nice Orthodox priest: http://www.brigadegames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BG-SIER001&Category_Code=WW1R&Product_Count=0

Also, maybe you could do some converting and make the nurse in this set into a passable nun: http://www.pulpfigures.com/catcode.php?range=Personalities&code=PHP&number=6&custID=21613625371261427263

No idea about the musicians, though.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: argsilverson on 22 December 2009, 01:38:56 AM
Keep in mind, however, that there is a Greek Catholic Church, and a Greek Orthodox Church. The Greek Catholic Church still recognizes the pope as its final authority; the Greek Orthodox Church does not. Both are very large institutions, but very few people outside Greece seem to know about the Greek Catholics.

-Doc

True, but the question was about orthodox clergy in Russia etc.

BTW there are more churches than the above: In greece there is more churches than orthodox and catholics, it exists protestant church, armenian church, jewish church and Muslims. You can find russian church, anglican church and maybe more,

Anyhow since this is a modelling thread, it is enough the discussion about religious matters.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: former user on 22 December 2009, 12:25:07 PM
The Ukrainians and Galicians were most definitely not White. Many Whites thought they were worse than the Bolsheviks (being both Socialist and splitters).

Uniforms for them are tricky. There is an Osprey, but it's pretty hard to follow unless you really know what was going on before you try to decipher it.

Hm, I've read some divergent definitions of "White", and You seem to tend to the narrower one, of "White" being connected to Yudenich, Denikin, Kolchak etc.  which makes a lot of sense in terms of differentiation.

I personally find the RCW "sub-theater of operations" about the Ukrainian independance, Ukrainian-Polish and Russo Polish war very interesting, because it is not mainstream interest, on a smaller scale and with many different uniforms and equipment - but hard to research, I agree.
I saw a picture of a steam tractor improvised as armoured car in the streets of Lemberg/Lviv once.
Please don't crucify me if I didn't use the PC name of the city  :)
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Mark Plant on 23 December 2009, 09:44:32 AM
Please don't crucify me if I didn't use the PC name of the city  :)

There is no "PC" name. Whatever you use will offend someone. I've written about the city in Pygmy Wars and it's a no-win situation.  :(  My "solution" is to always use the modern name, but that can confuse people who don't know the multiple names.

I have photos of the Polish armoured cars in L'viv by the way.  :D  I'm not sure that the Russo-Polish War is a "sub-theatre though.

Quote
I've read some divergent definitions of "White"

As far as I know there are only two definitions of "White" used with any frequency.

The Bolsheviks tarred nearly everyone who fought them as "Whites". That works in terms of the fighting, when the Reds were the enemy of everyone, but is meaningless politically IMO. How can a Marxist government like Georgia be "White"? What does it mean when a "White" like Pilsudski deliberately let the Reds win rather than Kolchak and Denikin?

The other definition requires that the Whites include only those who wanted a united Russia (including all modern Ukraine and Belorussia) and on non-Marxist lines. They tended to be linked to Kolchak, Denikin and Iudenich, true, but not necessarily: Ungern-Sternberg was White, but no mate of Kolchak.

Generally I find people coming to the RCW tend to assume the first definition, because the RCW is normally sold as "Red versus White". Then they become confused when discover that the Czechs were firmly Socialist, and disliked Kolchak intensely.
Title: Re: Special Figures for BOB
Post by: Poliorketes on 23 December 2009, 08:44:17 PM
I think you can't just divide the RCW between reds and whites. It's just that the main antagonists were red and white, with dozens of factions in between, some of them switching sides more than once. I think the quiet Don and Dr. Zhivago give a good feeling of how this worked.