Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Prof.Witchheimer on May 09, 2007, 08:50:27 PM
-
just discovered that, the steamer "Hermann von Wissmann" on Victoria lake, does anyone know anything about that ship? Was it military one? Maybe a larger pic?
(http://forum.backofbeyond.de/images/misc/07_05_09_wissmann_dampfer.jpg)
-
I think the Hedwig von Wissmann appeared in the 'African queen' (?). This book might be of interest (have not read it though): Die wahre Geschichte der African Queen (http://www.rezensionen.ch/buchbesprechungen/african_queen/3596168376.html).
Gruß, Hagen
PS: and Tanganjikasee (http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/tanganjikasee/tangan.html)
PPS: and this looks very cool (4,99 Euro on eBay at the moment): Ein deutscher Dampfer für den Tanganyika (http://cgi.ebay.at/Fitzner-ein-deutscher-Dampfer-Hedwig-von-Wissmann-fuer_W0QQitemZ280111053882QQihZ018QQcategoryZ19330QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
-
Yes, the Hedwig von Wissman was a steamer on lake Tanganyika. (In "The African Queen" her fictionalised equivalent was the "Königin Luise" which sailed on Lake Wittelsbach.)
She was sunk by Mimi, Toutou and Fifi.
But as for Hermann, I was not aware of his immortalisation as a lake boat.
-
Who is Hedwig von Wissmann? At the pic above i can obvious recognize "Hermann von Wissmann". Another Wissmann boat?
that African Queen book seems to be a good reading, going to get it.
And I need something like this Graf Goetz
(http://www.traditionsverband.de/magazin/goetz/bild01.jpg)
-
Is the "Graf Goetz" the same ship as the Graf von Götzen?
The Graf von Götzen (or Liemba as she's now called) still serves as a ferry and cargo ship on Lake Tanganyika:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Liemba2.jpg)
The British refloated her and she's been going ever since.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Liemba
My ship the SMS Elke (formerly the Prinzessin Charlotte and the SS Denture) was inspired by the Götzen, though her fictional adventures are/will be a combination of that ships' plus the voyages of the Emden and the Königsberg.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Elke-1.jpg)
I think that Hedwig von Wissman was the wife of the explorer Hermann von Wissmann, but I'll have to check up on that.
-
Is the "Graf Goetz" the same ship as the Graf von Götzen?
yes
-
Interesting thread!
Plynkes' Elke does look a little like the Graf Goetzen
-
Only a very little. "Inspired by" in the Hollywood way, rather than any sort of precise copy (and also doubles up as a nifty tramp steamer with the guns removed).
She is also living out the adventures of two light cruisers, and looks nothing like either of them. But hey, why worry?
-
I seem to be coming across numerous references to a "Hermann von Wissmann" steamer on Lake Nyasa, rather than Victoria.
Apparrently it was the German's only steamer on that lake, and was ashore for repairs at the outbreak of the Great War. Seems like she, along with her captain and crew were taken without a fight, as most unsportingly the Brits neglected to tell them that the war had started until they had them at bayonet-point.
-
I say! That's not cricket, wot?
-
Who is Hedwig von Wissmann?
Ups. Seems that I completely messed up Hermann, Hedwig, Victoria and Tanganjika... :roll:
-
have a look here:
http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/tanganjikasee/tangan.html
Rudi
-
thanks for the infos and links, guys! now I have lots to read
-
Prof., the name of the ship is the "Hedwig von Wissmann" named after the wife of the former governor of the colony.
Most of what you might want to know about the war on the lake can be found on this website:
http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/tanganjikasee/tangan.html
This was from a link provided by a guy on the OstAfrika Yahoo Group. That's a good group to join for info on this topic.
Note that a very good book on the topic of the war on the lake is "Mimi and Toutou's Big Adventure" by Giles Foden (the guy who wrote "The Last King of Scotland").
-
That's the third time now that link has been posted here on this topic. Might be worthwhile if folks actually read the topic before posting?
As has already been established, there was a "Hermann von Wissmann" as well as a "Hedwig."
As for the Ostafrika group, I was kicked out with no explanation and for no reason that I can see. So I say stuff them!
-
That's the third time now that link has been posted here on this topic. Might be worthwhile if folks actually read the topic before posting?
As has already been established, there was a "Hermann von Wissmann" as well as a "Hedwig"
Read it, missed it, see now that Rudi posted it, sorry to be such an aggravation to you, Plynkes.
I disagree that there was a ship named "Hermann von Wissmann" on Lake Tanganyika. Would like to see a source that says there was.
Here's another link from Holger Kotthaus on the OstAfrika group, and sorry in advance if somebody else has already posted the link:
http://www.schutztruppe.de/
On the left there is "Magazin" which leads to a set of articles. There's one named "Der I. Weltkrieg auf den Seen von Deutch-Ostafrika" which includes material and pictures about the war on the lakes. This stuff is in German, but that works for a large number on people on this forum.
-
no worries about too many posts of the same links! Me seems to be the only who didnt know the site :) Thanks!
the source is the pic in my first post of the thread. The ship name looks like Herrmann, not Hedwig.
-
Sorry warrenbruhn, didn't mean to be so grouchy. It just sometimes strikes me as a little discourteous to previous posters when folks do that. Oh well. Better to have three links than none, I suppose.
But I never said there was a "Hermann von Wissmann" on Tanganyika. If you read what I wrote you might see that.
I have come across at least two references to a ship of that name on Lake Nyasa (modern-day Lake Malawi). I'll have to look into that a bit more to see what's what.
-
Okay, I found some more info on the August 1914 incident:
"Captain Rhoades, who was renowned for his 'Rabelaisian wit' and 'unprintable songs', steered the 340-ton Guendolen into Sphinxhaven Bay, at the German end of the lake, and disabled the Hermann von Wissmann with a single shot from a range of 2,000 yards. His erstwhile drinking partner, the von Wissmann's Captain Berndt, immediately rowed out to the Guendolen to remonstrate with Rhoades, bellowing 'Gott for damn, Rhoades, vos you drunk?' as he pulled alongside. Rhoades was not. His orders were to seize control of lake Nyasa, and in so doing he scored what The Times hailed as the British Empire's first naval victory of the Great War. Berndt and his crew were, somewhat apologetically, 'put in the bag.'"
From "Tip and Run" (2007) by Edward Paige. He goes on to say the disabled ship was refloated in 1918 by the British and renamed the King George.
Byron Farwell also mentions the Hermann von Wissmann in "The Great War in Africa", but only in passing and puts it on Lake Tanganyika. He seems to have got either his ship names or his lakes muddled up, so his input isn't really of any use.
Finally, this website also mentions the incident quoted above:
http://www.zum.de/psm/imperialismus/kolonialatlas18/atlas11e.php
Sorry I don't have anything more scholarly than this, but I'm not a scholar.
Edit: Spelled Paige's named wrong in original post.
-
Sorry I don't have anything more scholarly than this, but I'm not a scholar.
Scholarly enough for me :) Many thanks, Plynkes!
Looks like, this ship doesnt have a spectacular story to show. Disabled with a single shot :cry:
-
Well, you could always game "What if Captain Berndt had known the war had begun?" If they had been ready things may have turned out different. Interesting that the two captains were friends, too.
Also, the Brits seem to have been happy to leave the ship where it was in 1914, and then spent the rest of the war worrying that the Germans would refloat her and put a Königsberg gun on her and take control of Nyasa.
Another "What if...?" scenario perhaps?
-
:( Well, I am so grossly wrong that wrongness clings to me like a coat of green paint on a zombie! The German language website that I cited above has a section in the "Der I. Weltkrieg auf den Seen von Deutsch-Ostafrika" article titled "Einsatz auf dem Njassa-See." That section refers to the 100 ton Hermann von Wissmann built in 1893 and destroyed on August 13, 1914 at Sphinxhafen. :o Guess I should look more closely at my own cites. :roll:
Thank you Plynkes for making me look at what happened on the other lakes. :oops:
p.s. the German article mentions the British ships available on Lake Njassa as the 350 ton Guendolen and the 320 ton Chancey Maples, in case anybody is interested. Now I've got to figure out what a "Dampfer" and a "Schlepper" are.
-
Now I've got to figure out what a "Dampfer" and a "Schlepper" are.
Dampfer = steamer
Schlepper = tugboat
-
the site is top notch, lots of articles and some very nice pics there
need these in 28mm :love:
(http://www.schutztruppe.de/galerie/vollbehr/kamelreiter.jpg)
that one
"Heiße Grüße für die englischen Landungstruppen"
"Hot Greetings for the british landing troops"
:lol:
(http://www.schutztruppe.de/galerie/grotemeyer/landungstruppe.jpg)
-
Great pics! That last one, would it be one of those Schnellfeuergeschutz (pardon my German) thingies? I've seen that pic before, but not so gloriously big. Don't suppose any mini manufacturers make a model of that gun, do they?
That site does have some wonderful piccies. (I want to do Kamerun now! German Askari Lancers in red fezzes!) Thanks, warrenbruhn. Great stuff.
But I dearly wish the tiny bit of German I learned at school hadn't totally evaporated...
-
Great pics! That last one, would it be one of those Schnellfeuergeschutz (pardon my German) thingies? I've seen that pic before, but not so gloriously big. Don't suppose any mini manufacturers make a model of that gun, do they?
That site does have some wonderful piccies. (I want to do Kamerun now! German Askari Lancers in red fezzes!) Thanks, warrenbruhn. Great stuff.
But I dearly wish the tiny bit of German I learned at school hadn't totally evaporated...
I´m unsure about the Schnellfeuergeschütz - to me, it looks more like a "Revolverkanone", a 2in Gatling-type weapon used a lot on light cruisers of the German Navy in the late 19th and early 20th century.
-
That's interesting, as in an English book I have Schnellfeuergeschutz is translated as "Revolver Cannon", and Revolver Cannon was what I meant when I used that word (I was just trying to come across as smart and clever!) :)
So are Schnellfeuergeschutz and Revolverkanone two different things?
Seems to be some confusion, and something going awry in translation here! :)
-
just found that, Schnellfeuergeschütz 1908
(http://pageperso.aol.fr/mitraille123/France/StEtienne/Photos/Jardin.jpg)
-
That's interesting, as in an English book I have Schnellfeuergeschutz is translated as "Revolver Cannon", and Revolver Cannon was what I meant when I used that word (I was just trying to come across as smart and clever!) :)
So are Schnellfeuergeschutz and Revolverkanone two different things?
Seems to be some confusion, and something going awry in translation here! :)
From what I know, "Schnellfeuergeschütz" (both in the general meaning and for the type-specific gun) is best translated by "Quickfiring Gun" (as in "ordnance, quick-firing/OQF"). Seeing the photograph above, though, I am not 100% sure if the gun on the painting is indeed a Revolverkanone.
I´ve found a page on the Rev. Botched the caliber, 3,7cm/1.5in is the correct caliber. Don´t know how I came to 5cm.
http://www.mars.slupsk.pl/fort/a04-37hg.htm
I´m not sure, but it might indeed be the gun on the above pic. I´ve read numerous accounts which tell of revolver cannon being dismounted from their parent ships and used as field pieces.
-
I need these in 28mm
HLBS makes them, I have them. They come both mounted and dismounted.
-
HLBS makes them, I have them. They come both mounted and dismounted.
really? didn't find them on the HLBS site. Any pics or links?
-
Yes, HLBS did make them, I have them too.
The guns - the barrels at least ca be bought from http://www.thelondonwarroom.com/Weapons%20For%201889.htm%20page%201.htm
All you need is a land carriage for the 37mm revolver.
-
Yes, HLBS did make them, I have them too.
So you say they are OOP? I'll be danged... Well, I am glad I have them although they are yet unpainted. Quite nice, on the tall side, like Copplestones, but slightly less defined and not as chunky. RLPBD used to be the agent for them in the States, I think, but they don't seem to carry them any longer either. Can't find anything on them on Google either. I'll see if I can post some photos.
-
another pic of "Herrmann von Wissmann" steamer:
(http://forum.backofbeyond.de/images/misc/07_05_15_dampfer_wissmann.jpg)
-
the site is top notch, lots of articles and some very nice pics there
need these in 28mm :love:
(http://www.schutztruppe.de/galerie/vollbehr/kamelreiter.jpg)
quote]
How much do these Ligh Horse differ from the schutstruppe in slouch hats. I mean are the colse enough for conversions?
(http://www.brigadegames.com/images/BGGL/BG-WIEB85_sm.jpg)
-
the site is top notch, lots of articles and some very nice pics there
need these in 28mm :love:
(http://www.schutztruppe.de/galerie/vollbehr/kamelreiter.jpg)
I painted these (HLBSC) yesterday and they and they turned out shit, both camles and Camel Corpsmen. The miniatures are substandard (with poor definition and proportions) to start with but I can't blame it all on that. I must have been too drunk. Now I have to strip them down and start from scratch. Bah.
-
Hammershield, the rifles are obviously completely wrong, but that should be only a minor conversion. The bigger problem should be the belts and ammo pouches, but I would ignore that, painted in the right colours the light horse should go for Schutztruppe.
-
If converting is required, I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to get some appropriate foot models and then some camel riders, cut both just above/below the belt and if necessary use some greenstuff to fill in the gaps. Might be slightly more work, but could give the best results.
And now I suddenly feel tempted to put some of my Foundry WW2 German cavalry on those Gripping Beast camels I have lying around for some pulpy DAK cavalry... :P
-
Hammershield, the rifles are obviously completely wrong, but that should be only a minor conversion. The bigger problem should be the belts and ammo pouches, but I would ignore that, painted in the right colours the light horse should go for Schutztruppe.
You may have missunderstood, Polio. :-)
I did not paint the picture in the post. That's an old contemporary illustration from german press. I painted two minis of German SW Africa Kamel Corps from HLBSC.
I think, given other references, that the colours are right in the picture.
H
-
I thought you wanted to converse the light horse, and I only meant those and possibilities to convert them, not the camel riders picture.