Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Tutorials => Topic started by: phreedh on 23 March 2010, 09:49:31 AM
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What's your preferred method for mounting minis to washers? I've never tried it before and have a hard time deciding on how to do it. Any pointers and tips are most welcome!
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Here's a pretty thorough step-by-step on how I do it.
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Here's a pretty thorough step-by-step on how I do it.
It is in invisible ink and only able to be seen by the initiates of Hammer ;)
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I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I dont really think that there is that much to it.
Clip of the tab/slot if the figure has one, file/sand flat and super glue to the washer. As far as I am aware its pretty straightforward, nothing arcane :)
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I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I dont really think that there is that much to it.
Clip of the tab/slot if the figure has one, file/sand flat and super glue to the washer. As far as I am aware its pretty straightforward, nothing arcane :)
yeah i do the same i use some blister plastic to cover the hole and i'm sorted..
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super glue to the washer
That's the part I'm wary of. That's often a very small contact surface. You never have problems with bonds breaking?
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That's the part I'm wary of. That's often a very small contact surface. You never have problems with bonds breaking?
Nope the glue i use is pretty good and i use an activator on both parts forst to make sure i get a good contact. I also lightly sand the top of the washer to get a better surface..
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I use a hot glue pistol for it and file the surfaces if necessary
works quite OK, occasionally a figures goes off but it is easy to glue it back on
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Scuff-sand the washer with 400-grit paper so there's some "tooth" for the adhesive to engage, put a piece of adhesive tape on the bottom of the washer to seal the hole, then clip and file down the tab or integrated base off the figure in question. I like to leave a slight remnant of the base or tab between the feet - it increases the contact area for gluing.
Get about a dozen of each set up at once, then mix up a small batch of epoxy glue. Use a coffee stirrer or similar tab to lay down a sufficient amount of epoxy on the washer (filling in the hole at the same time, bed the figure's feet in the glue carefully and then use bits of Blu-Tack or modelling clay to support the figure until the epoxy dries. After the glue is dry, peel the adhesive tape off the bottom of the washers.
If you can only get the "5-minute" epoxy (which has a working time of about 2 minutes, actually), only do 5 or 6 at a time.
The epoxy is more resistant to shearing forces than most superglue bonds. If you plan to rebase figures ever, this technique should be avoided - in trying to remove the bases, the pewter or plastic will fail long before the glue will.
Apply sand or base modeling, then prime the figures and paint as normal.
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There's no need for any fannying about or worrying about contact areas if you just leave the integral base on the figure. What's the point in cutting it off? That is just making more bother for yourself.
Sorry, but I don't understand why you would want do this.
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It is in invisible ink and only able to be seen by the initiates of Hammer ;)
That is correct, but I will in this case show it anyway, just for you:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=15885.msg189693#msg189693 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=15885.msg189693#msg189693)
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I don't think they are talking about cutting the base off the figure if it is integral to the casting.
Stuff like Ral Partha Colonials and Foundry can be glued directly onto the washer with a little filing of any burrs.
WHat people ARE talking about is removing the slotta-base portion of a figure which sticks down below the feet, and then filing the bottom of the figures feet smooth so it can be glued onto the base.
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There's no need for any fannying about or worrying about contact areas if you just leave the integral base on the figure. What's the point in cutting it off? That is just making more bother for yourself.
Sorry, but I don't understand why you would want do this.
This is wise advice. Little fannying about is needed if there is an integral base. I just file the bottom slightly with a wood file.
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With washers some effort does seem to be required. Why not just use penny coins (or similar-sized currency of choice)? Ok they're non-ferrous but they don't have holes in and come with an already embossed surface to which superglue will grip with ease.
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I trim the tab so it is approx 1mm thick for its whole length, I then sand the bottom so it is flat, super glue this to the washer, then cover base in Basetex, once this has hardened you have an extremely strong bond. If you dont use Basetex build up around the remaining tab with epoxy glue,when dry PVA glue and sand.
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I find superglue to brittle if the surfaces are not *completely* flush to each other. Two part epoxy glue is much tougher and more forgiving.
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Instead of washers I use 2p coins - 25mm diameter.
Like others, I sand/file the figure base flat then superglue. If the base is thick I use Greenstuff around the edge and create a "gentle slope" before applying the baing material.
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Good tips. Epoxy glue it is! =)
The mainstay of my minis are either metal with slotta-tabs, or plastic pre-paints. I want them on uniform bases, hence the rebasing on washers. I also want the weight of the washers, especially for the plastics.
So far, I've been using green stuff and I've trimmed the slotta tab down. It's working out nice, but it's a bit too much mucking about really. Would be better if I could just clip the tab off, but then I'd have to submerge the feet of the mini in greenstuff.
Ho hum, I'll try a few different ways and see which I like best.
Hammers, your link still isn't showing in that first reply of yours.
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Whereas I, unlike many, refuse to use washers. THey are too thin for me - I tend to pick up my models by the bases and not the figure itself, due to years of conversions and painting, and so I want something at least 3mm thick so that there is something to grip.
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... so I want something at least 3mm thick so that there is something to grip ...
:o 3mm !!! You’re an heretic!!! ;)
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If you are using putty to model the terrain on the washer you want to switch to Milliput - a lot cheaper than Greenstuff. I use ready mixed wall filler as it saves all the fannying about mixing the epoxies and it takes diluted paint wonderfully when dry.
I use 25mm round and would use washers or wooden laser cuts if either were cheaper than the good old 2 pence piece - I always place the queens head down for some reason though ;D
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I use 25mm round and would use washers or wooden laser cuts if either were cheaper than the good old 2 pence piece
We don't have any suitable coins in Sweden, the best fit would be 1 SEK, which is roughly 10p. A washer is cheaper and better. =)
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:o 3mm !!! You’re an heretic!!! ;)
Blame it on 20 years of playing GW games. At this point, I actually cast many of my own bases from resin, so that they are textured how I want them.
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I use 25mm repair washers. I find 2 pence coins just give a bit too much of a thick edge for my tastes, although I agree it's pretty marginal.
I use Araldite 2-part epoxy glue, quick drying (sets rock hard in 20 minutes if you get the mixture right).
I don't bother roughing up the surface of the washers - I simply place them on a sheet of thin polythene bag material, fill the central hole up (and smear around it) with a generous helping of epoxy glue, then dob the figure down on top of it and twist it around a bit so the glue squidges out all round and forms a good seal around the figure's own base.
Once dry, you will find the hole has been filled with a solid lump of resin, the underside of which is perfectly flush with the underside of the washer (assuming you've been working on a flat tabletop), but this peels easily off the polythene.
And the figure is pretty much irrevocably stuck to the washer. Try getting it off - you'll need pliers.
Of course this only works for figures with integral bases - but then I don't buy figures with tabs and slotta bases :D
I texture the base with my homemade jamjar paste mix of sand / grit / PVA and paint, which totally conceals what's going on beneath the figure's feet. Unlike milliput or green stuff, you just paint it on as thick and lumpy as you like - easy. And it has built-in texture, so you don't then need to add texture to the filler surface.
Anyway, that's the easiest, quickest and most effective way I've found of doing it, but I'm sure everybody swears by their own recipes :)
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If you are using putty to model the terrain on the washer you want to switch to Milliput - a lot cheaper than Greenstuff. I use ready mixed wall filler as it saves all the fannying about mixing the epoxies and it takes diluted paint wonderfully when dry.
I use Humbrol model filler to fill in around the integral bases, once I've attached to a standard issue washer (superglue works for me). Very quick and easy - just squeeze it out of the tube and on it goes. It also gives a nice surface for a coat of PVA glue and a dip in a pot of sand for basing.
The only drawback is that the filler does have a solvent smell, so I put the figures in a plastic box while the base cures, otherwise it can stink out the house.
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I don't bother roughing up the surface of the washers - I simply place them on a sheet of thin polythene bag material, fill the central hole up (and smear around it) with a generous helping of epoxy glue, then dob the figure down on top of it and twist it around a bit so the glue squidges out all round and forms a good seal around the figure's own base.
As you can see the hole in the washer is actually an advantage. The epoxy forms a plug which makes for a stronger bond.
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Interesting that the type of base has come up again.
As most of you will know - or if you don't just check out my website - I happily use all types of bases. :)
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I texture the base with my homemade jamjar paste mix of sand / grit / PVA and paint, which totally conceals what's going on beneath the figure's feet.
would You mind to reveal the secret receipt of Your homemade paste please?
It happens that I thought of something similar, but somehow never managed to produce anything easy going, and Yours sounds like the actual thing :)
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I use home-made paste too. Mine is polyfilla, silver sand and "grit" with plenty of water added. Never thought of adding paint to colour. Another great tip from the captain.
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would You mind to reveal the secret receipt of Your homemade paste please?
Of course - it's no secret. I often promote the technique here, because I can't stand seeing people waste all their money on 'basing paints', which are just sand, paint and PVA mixed - with about a 1000% mark-up on the cost of the raw materials! Money for nothing. Cheeky swine.
I use a mix of coarse sand and emulsion paint (whatever colour base you want to achieve) with a good dash of PVA added. Mix together in a jar to provide a kind of grainy, thick toothpaste consistency. If you find it too thin, then mix in a bit more sand. You can adjust the grade of sand too, if you want a more gritty texture. If you find it too solid to paint on easily, then add a bit more PVA.
It takes about 2 minutes to make and keeps in a jam jar forever. Just use it when you need it.
Honestly, when you buy 'Base-tex' or other proprietary 'basing paints' this is all you're getting - a mix of paint and sand. So it's cheaper to make your own - like pennies of raw material to make enough mix to base 100 figures.
Once you've painted on the mix and it's still wet, stick a few pieces of aquarium gravel in it to look like sharp rocks here and there. Or a few fine 'gritty bits' - model railway type stuff. Games Workshop sell it too. If you're worried any of this won't stick, give it a coat of white glue / PVA to seal it.
That's it. Simples.
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I, to, have now seen the light and will mix my own set of pots for various uses. Apart from saving me a few pennies I can more importantly see how it cuts at least one step from my process.
Of course - it's no secret. I often promote the technique here, because I can't stand seeing people waste all their money on 'basing paints', which are just sand, paint and PVA mixed - with about a 1000% mark-up on the cost of the raw materials! Money for nothing. Cheeky swine.
I use a mix of coarse sand and emulsion paint (whatever colour base you want to achieve) with a good dash of PVA added. Mix together in a jar to provide a kind of grainy, thick toothpaste consistency. If you find it too thin, then mix in a bit more sand. You can adjust the grade of sand too, if you want a more gritty texture. If you find it too solid to paint on easily, then add a bit more PVA.
It takes about 2 minutes to make and keeps in a jam jar forever. Just use it when you need it.
Honestly, when you buy 'Base-tex' or other proprietary 'basing paints' this is all you're getting - a mix of paint and sand. So it's cheaper to make your own - like pennies of raw material to make enough mix to base 100 figures.
Once you've painted on the mix and it's still wet, stick a few pieces of aquarium gravel in it to look like sharp rocks here and there. Or a few fine 'gritty bits' - model railway type stuff. Games Workshop sell it too. If you're worried any of this won't stick, give it a coat of white glue / PVA to seal it.
That's it. Simples.
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Wow!
I'm amazed so many people use so many different methods and substances to bond minis to washers...
I have found in my opinion the best type of substance.. it comes in many brand names but it's a heavy fast drying quick clear adhesive gel...
Since I started using it a few years ago, I almost completely stopped using super glue. I use it for a lot of jobs related to terrain construction where you might normally use hot glue.
I use a dab to join the mini to the washer and then add white glue and sand flock to blend the base of the miniature with the outer edge of the washer.
(http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/bigimg/4470.jpg)
(http://www.artsuppliesonline.com/prodimg/4470.jpg)
(http://www.crafts4me.com/images/e6000.jpg)
I go through a tube about every two-three months. I should buy stock in this stuff. It's about $3.oo USD a tube.
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thank You for the advice.
It would appear the secret is the "emulsion paint" (I guess this is simple wall paint?) that might keep the PVA from drying out too quickly - what actually ended my attempts....
saving money and a process is indeed the main thing
btw, topic once diverted, has anyone ever tried to base figures removable?
I was considering to do exactly this with my drop troops, with holes in the feet and pins on the base
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thank You for the advice.
It would appear the secret is the "emulsion paint" (I guess this is simple wall paint?) that might keep the PVA from drying out too quickly - what actually ended my attempts....
saving money and a process is indeed the main thing
btw, topic once diverted, has anyone ever tried to base figures removable?
I was considering to do exactly this with my drop troops, with holes in the feet and pins on the base
That's how I am basing my harpies. I use steel piano wire rather than brass.
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steel piano wire as flying base? - inventive
I actually meant the possibility to take them off the bases
with the drop troops - I don't like the idea of rocket backpacks, so I thought abseiling rope hooked to the back
and then bases to the feet wouldn't look that good ;)
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It would appear the secret is the "emulsion paint" (I guess this is simple wall paint?)
Emulsion is known as "latex" paint in the US I am pretty sure. Its household wall paint that can be cleaned from a brush with water, like acrylics.
I use it in my basing mixture aswell, but I dont *think* that it has a significant effect on the drying time of the pva element.
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I've found myself using washers more often than not now, I don't care for the slope on slotta bases, and in regards to gripping the miniature.... Well I know use a series of spray gloss and matte varnishes, so they hold up under regular and even rough handling.
For slotta based figures I trim off most of the tab, leaving just a thin piece of metal going from leg to leg. Typically I'll leave a bit of a extra tab to fit in the washer hole. Using two part epoxy, green stuff typically I cover the tab and base with a layer of putty, then use a dull knife to texture the base. In the case of reaper minis I'll use a small nail or pin to poke holes in the putty, mimicking the broccoli base.
After hearing about the liquid epoxy method, I'm tempted to give that a try.
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I glue a (1 mm thick) rare earth magnet in the hole of the washer.
That way I can store my minis in cookie tins (or cases, or whatever they are called - large round metal boxes with a lid, may also come in square forms), and don't need foams and expensive cases for storage/transport.
I do not use washers for minis made for slotta-type bases, though - I find that the added height of putting a mini with integral base on a washer makes it about as tall as one on a slotta. AND the hollow slotta-base is ideal for 2 mm magnets. Which gives a better grip for those 'heroic' scale minis that are sometimes a little massive.
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I glue a (1 mm thick) rare earth magnet in the hole of the washer.
Clever idea.
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I recently had a problem with the local store discontinuing the very size washer I needed! I had some 15mm minis and was using a 9/16" washer with an eighth inch hole. I had to get half inch washers with quarter inch holes and some of the bases on my minis were too small. I solved the problem by supergluing the washer top down to some printer card, put a tiny dab of glue in the hole to make sure it's covered. When dry I peel it off and sand the paper down to a miniscule thickness and it forms a perfect base for my minis.
SteveN
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I solved the problem by supergluing the washer top down to some printer card, put a tiny dab of glue in the hole to make sure it's covered. When dry I peel it off and sand the paper down to a miniscule thickness and it forms a perfect base for my minis.
I just saw somebody use the method for using 2 washers as base for cavalry - which I find absolutely brilliant - gives a nice rounded elongated base - and an idea I'm going to steal, as it works like a dream for my magnet-in-the-hole method (can even put two magnets in that way, which gives a better grip when placed in the tin).
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No effort is required. I use fender washers (little hole). File the base on the miniature flat and use gap filling superglue to glue to the washer. When the glue is dry I then cover over the base using bondo putty and when that is dried you can then do your bases with any type of covering you wish like sand or grit. The miniature will not come off the fender washer even if you drop it.
Darkoath
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I know this is a bit of threadomancy, but the way I get around the holes in washers for bases is to simply place a bit of clear cheap packing tape over the hole and decorate up the base as normal, then peel the tape off when everything is dried.
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Simple but smart. I wonder why I've never done that.
If no one objects, I may do a compilation of the choicest bit from this thread and make it sticky...
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That would be great, maybe you can make your own sticky where you list all the options? Far easier to navigate :)
On topic: I use laser cut bases. Yes, they have a great disadvantage if they get wet (the fibres start to tear of), but that can be sorted out with some watered down PVA.
And its far easier to attach the slottabase minis as I just cut of the bar and drill holes (which I usually do anyway to let the mini stay better on the base).